JTS33
join:2003-05-03
USA
| Two PAP2's behind one router - can they use same SIP Ports?
I'm planning on adding a 2nd PAP2 to my router. Since the first PAP2 is using the default 5060 and 5061 SIP ports for the two lines, does that mean I have to set the second PAP2 to use different ports (like 5062 and 5063)?
Also, I've read people say that you have to use SIP port 5060 with certain VoIP services. If someone is using more than one service with that restriction, how do they configure their ATA's to handle this? |
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chpalmer
join:2002-11-18
Bremerton, WA | Yes. They use differnt IP addresses.
I do it here with three ATA's all on 5060. |
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N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
 ·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·Callcentric
edit:
December 11th, @01:58AM
| reply to JTS33
said by JTS33  :I'm planning on adding a 2nd PAP2 to my router. Since the first PAP2 is using the default 5060 and 5061 SIP ports for the two lines, does that mean I have to set the second PAP2 to use different ports (like 5062 and 5063)? Also, I've read people say that you have to use SIP port 5060 with certain VoIP services. If someone is using more than one service with that restriction, how do they configure their ATA's to handle this? You asked if one must use entirely different ports on two separate PAP2 adapters. The answer is NO. The various VoIP providers' servers (and your own router) first look at the MAC address and (or IP address assigned to the adapter by your router) of each adapter and then look at the port. Thus, since your adapters have different MAC & internal IP addresses, you may use 5060 and 5061 on both adapters' Line 1 and Line 2. You cannot use the same port (such as 5060) on Line 1 and Line 2 of the same adapter.
Almost all of the current crop of VoIP providers permit you to use ports anywhere in the range of 5060 to 5080 (and probably lower and higher port numbers as well). There are a few companies with exceptions that call for "unusual" port numbers (such as the universal port 80).
So, the set up for PAP2s is easier than you think. Here's an example of the settings for ViaTalk: »Re: Provisioning customer PAP2T
If you have another specific provider you wish to use, just ask -- and someone will be along to help. |
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JTS33
join:2003-05-03
USA
| N9MD - Thanks for the excellent explanation.
I haven't had to do any port forwarding on the router for my PAP2 to work, but I've heard of people needing to forward the SIP port to their PAP2's LAN IP address. Hypothetically speaking, how would someone in that situation set up port forwarding in their router if they have two PAP2's both using Port 5060?
And is it necessary to forward both TCP and UDP on the SIP port? |
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N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·Callcentric
edit:
December 11th, @02:17AM
| Actually, I have never found the need to do any forwarding of the TCP or UDP ports with my multiple PAP2T-NAs. At this very moment in my NJ home, I have 3 separate PAP2T-NAs plugged into my LinkSys Router --- each adapter is using Port 5060 on Line 1 and 5061 on Port 2 --- without any conflict. I am able to use all six lines (2 on each adapter) at the same time, using the G711u CODEC on each of the various VoIP provider services (ViaTalk, GizmoProject, AxVoice, StanaPhone, FreeDigits, and others). Of course, using the G711u CODEC does call for more bandwidth than other common CODECs, but I've got plenty of bandwidth to spare with my ISP's (OptOnLine) cablemodem.
In response to "... how would someone in that situation set up port forwarding in their router if they have two PAP2's both using Port 5060?", I must repeat that both PAP2s may use port 5060 at the exact same time with no forwarding or DMZ placement or any other special actions necessary. Think of it this way; the port address of each adapter is actually MAC#+Port#. So your first PAP2 would be seen by the router and modem and ISP and VoIP server as MAC1+Port5060 and the second PAP2 would be recognized as as MAC2+Port5060 -- thereby giving two different "addresses" -- so the simultaneous assignment of 5060 to each adapter does no harm. |
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JTS33
join:2003-05-03
USA
| N9MD - Thanks for clearing that up. 
Do you mind posting your PAP2 config for GizmoProject and FreeDigits?
I looked at your ViaTalk setting and noticed "NAT Keep Alive" is enabled. Do you enable it for all of your VoIP services, or only certain ones? |
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venk25
join:2004-05-12
Nashua, NH
·VoicePulse
| reply to N9MD
N9MD, so, is your setup using outbound proxy ? My understanding was if you use outbound proxy, you don't have to worry about any port forwarding. If you use STUN, then you need to. Am I right ? Or do I need to take a SIP - 101 course  |
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voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH |  Avoid placing one ATA behind another ATA. |
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AndrewZ
Premium
join:2003-07-17
somewhere
| reply to JTS33
This really depends on the router you have.
If it preserves ports then you should use different port numbers on the different ATAs and Lines.
If it randomizes ports then you can have the same ports.
You can check the Mapped port on the status page. If you have set 5060 on the Line tab and see the same value in Mapped - use different ports.
This relevant only if you are connecting all the ATAs & Lines to the same VSP (proxy). Otherwise your router should create totally independent mappings between SourceAddress:port & DestinationAddress:port. |
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N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·Callcentric
edit:
December 11th, @09:21PM
| reply to JTS33
said by JTS33 :I looked at your ViaTalk setting and noticed "NAT Keep Alive" is enabled. Do you enable it for all of your VoIP services, or only certain ones? The Edit at the bottom of my previously referenced post, describing the PAP2 setup for ViaTalk, should answer your question.
Edit: I just saw a post in the VT-Beta thread from VTJohn (a high level tech at VT) that suggests setting NAT Mapping Enable to NO. His recommendation may only apply to the Beta testing that is currently underway --- specifically for people having one-way audio problems. I see no difference on the richmond-1 server (none-beta) with either setting: yes or no.
I have not seen any difference with most VoIP provider setups on my PAP2s -- but other more technically versed BBR posters may be able to give us an education in the ins and outs of NAT Mapping Enable [Yes or No].
said by venk25 :... is your setup using outbound proxy ? My understanding was if you use outbound proxy, you don't have to worry about any port forwarding. If you use STUN, then you need to. Am I right ? Or do I need to take a SIP - 101 course? It is my understanding (but not necessarily correctly so) that the need for using an outbound proxy is determined at the VoIP company's end. Here is my experience thus far with regard to outbound proxies:
SunRocket (for nostalgia)
Proxy: sunrocket.com Use Outbound Proxy: yes
Outbound Proxy: 67.133.234.125 Use OB Proxy in Dialog: yes
VoiceStick
Proxy: i2telecom.com Use Outbound Proxy: yes
Outbound Proxy: 206.165.50.116 Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
GizmoProject
Proxy: proxy01.sipphone.com Use Outbound Proxy: no
Outbound Proxy: [blank] Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
StanaPhone
Proxy: sip-ny1.stanaphone.com Use Outbound Proxy: no
Outbound Proxy: [blank] Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
TalkDigits
Proxy: freedigits.com Use Outbound Proxy: yes
Outbound Proxy: outbound.freedigits.com Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
FreeWorldDialup (FWD)
Proxy: fwd.pulver.com Use Outbound Proxy: yes
Outbound Proxy: fwdnat.pulver.com:5082 Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
ViaTalk
Proxy: secaucus-9x.vtnoc.net Use Outbound Proxy: no
Outbound Proxy: [blank] Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
AxVoice
Proxy: sip.axvoice.com Use Outbound Proxy: no
Outbound Proxy: [blank] Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no |
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N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·Callcentric
| reply to JTS33
said by JTS33 :Do you mind posting your PAP2 config for GizmoProject and FreeDigits? Refer to this post -- »Re: Provisioning customer PAP2T -- and then, for the providers you mentioned, use the information shown here.
GizmoProject
Proxy and Registration
Proxy: proxy01.sipphone.com Use Outbound Proxy: no
Outbound Proxy: [blank] Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
Register: yes Make Call Without Reg: no
Register Expires: 60 Ans Call Without Reg: no
Use DNS SRV: no DNS SRV Auto Prefix: no
Proxy Fallback Intvl: 3600 Proxy Redundancy Method: normal
Subscriber Information
Display Name: Your Name User ID: 1747xxxxxxx
Password: log-in password Use Auth ID: yes
Auth ID: 1747xxxxxxx
.
TalkDigits (FreeDigits, CallDigits, SipNumber)
Proxy and Registration
Proxy: freedigits.net Use Outbound Proxy: yes
Outbound Proxy: outbound.freedigits.net Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no
Register: yes Make Call Without Reg: no
Register Expires: 60 Ans Call Without Reg: no
Use DNS SRV: no DNS SRV Auto Prefix: no
Proxy Fallback Intvl: 3600 Proxy Redundancy Method: normal
.
Subscriber Information
Display Name: Your Name User ID: 10-digit TD#
Password: log-in password Use Auth ID: no
Auth ID: [blank] |
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mazilo
From Mazilo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
Lilburn, GA
| reply to venk25
said by venk25 :If you use STUN, then you need to. Am I right ? Wrong.
Or do I need to take a SIP - 101 course  |
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mazilo
From Mazilo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
Lilburn, GA
| reply to N9MD
said by N9MD :FreeWorldDialup (FWD)Proxy: fwd.pulver.com Use Outbound Proxy: yes Outbound Proxy: fwdnat.pulver.com:5082 Use OB Proxy in Dialog: no This is YMMV. If your ATA device is connected to Internet through symmetrical NAT/Firewall router, then use OB. Otherwise, you are advised to use STUN options.
For those who have a PAP2v2/WRTP54G that only supports a SIP Registrar Address server, you will need to find a VoSP that provides its SIP Registrar Address server to use. Otherwise, you will probably need to perform some sort of ports forwarding on your NAT/Firewall router. |
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N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·Callcentric
| said by mazilo :For those who have a PAP2v2/WRTP54G ... For the record, I am currently using a total of seven PAP2-NAs and PAP2T-NAs -- all v1, not v2 -- at a few (not seven) different locations, with LinkSys WRT54.. (G or GS) routers. Thus, the settings I've posted do work for me. |
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N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ
·VOIPo
·ViaTalk
·Callcentric
edit:
December 11th, @11:20PM
| reply to mazilo
The mandatory prerequisite course before taking SIP-101 is Remedial Dribbling so that those who do not get the hang of SIPping, can at least deal with the resulting dribbling.  |
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mazilo
From Mazilo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
Lilburn, GA
| reply to N9MD
said by N9MD :For the record, I am currently using a total of seven PAP2-NAs and PAP2T-NAs -- all v1, not v2 -- at a few (not seven) different locations, with LinkSys WRT54.. (G or GS) routers. Thus, the settings I've posted do work for me. Yes and your existing configurations shall work with FWD; however, I wouldn't advise anyone to configure their ATA device to use an Outbound Proxy approach unless it is the last resort. In your case, since your location is close to the Outbound Proxy server, you may not experience an latency issue. For devices (caller and callee) configured with FWD Outbound Proxy server and are located half-way across the globe, this is going to be some issues with latency. |
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mazilo
From Mazilo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
Lilburn, GA
| reply to N9MD
said by N9MD :The mandatory prerequiste course before taking SIP-101 is Remedial Dribbling so that those who do not get the hang of SIPping, can at least deal with the resulting dribbling. LOL |
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DogFace05
join:2005-12-09
Cary, NC
| reply to N9MD
said by N9MD :Thus, since your adapters have different MAC & internal IP addresses, you may use 5060 and 5061 on both adapters' Line 1 and Line 2. You cannot use the same port (such as 5060) on Line 1 and Line 2 of the same adapter. That's a common misconception, but there's really no technical reason why the same port number cannot be shared by the two lines. Indeed, as it turns out, the Sipura and SPA based Linksys adapters (PAP2v1, RT31P2, etc) do support sharing of the same port number on both lines. In fact, that's how I've had my RT31P2 configured since February, with both lines on port 5060 working without a hitch. The lines are differentiated by their full URI (userid@ip:port), so as long as these are unique, the adapter can select the proper line. Other manufacturers/models, however, may not support the same port on both lines.
Almost all of the current crop of VoIP providers permit you to use ports anywhere in the range of 5060 to 5080 (and probably lower and higher port numbers as well). There are a few companies with exceptions that call for "unusual" port numbers (such as the universal port 80).
This has to do with the port at which a provider listens, but not the port used by the adapter itself. Providers usually don't care what port number is used by an adapter, as NAT routers remap the ports in unpredictable ways anyway, making it senseless to place such restrictions. |
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N9MD
Premium
join:2005-10-08
Wayne, NJ | As always, CanineCountenance05 ... er-r-r-r ... DogFace05 has come to save the day.
Being the guru that you are, I thank you for that clear response regarding setting port numbers on ATAs. I learned something today. Thanks! |
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