Heat305
join:2007-01-11
El Paso, TX | reply to esc0
Re: They made the rules....
ETF UPDATE
»ETF Update |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to tc1uscg
said by tc1uscg  :They already handle the warranty issues. I've had a problem with a 2 month old Razar.. no insurance so the only thing my provider did was give me the phone number to call moto. 3 times to moto and they finally fixed it. Isolated case. Don't think so. I know of some Sprint people who have had to deal with this too. They use to handle in-warranty problems in house but realized they could make more money by "charging" you for that process. Phone more then 30 days old, you can't cancel so the user is responsible for sending it in if you don't have the insurance. The least they could do is take the customers phone and ship/track it for them but what do you expect for a free phone and a 30.00 plan? And yes.. I know that one platform isn't compatible with another platform. That's my point. People keep bitching about Sprint and it's fee's so they are FREE to go to someone else, buy another phone and shut up. Everyone charges fees, cable, wireline phone service and I just read where even VoIP users will be paying a 9-1-1 fee soon. There are much dynamics involved with wireless service. Roaming agreements, data access, text messages, SMS text messages, portals, total service at 360degrees anywhere on earth. Paying 30 cents more a month isn't worth getting ones panties in a bunch.  They handle warranties but only if they made a mistake. You drop it, your fault and you pay unless you paid for insurance. The first razrs were bad and moto took a bath on them. Right now, the cell phone companies act as a go between to keep the subscriber.
That phone is not free. You pay for it with your monthly plan. Text messages cost the carriers next to nothing yet they charge 10 to 15 cents each. Minutes between their own subscribers are next to nothing but they get charged the same amount. You pay for that phone after 2 years of high access prices.
The cell phone companies know full well they can't people to pay for the expensive phones so they give them away and make it back when they sell the service. |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to moonpuppy
They already handle the warranty issues. I've had a problem with a 2 month old Razar.. no insurance so the only thing my provider did was give me the phone number to call moto. 3 times to moto and they finally fixed it. Isolated case. Don't think so. I know of some Sprint people who have had to deal with this too. They use to handle in-warranty problems in house but realized they could make more money by "charging" you for that process. Phone more then 30 days old, you can't cancel so the user is responsible for sending it in if you don't have the insurance. The least they could do is take the customers phone and ship/track it for them but what do you expect for a free phone and a 30.00 plan? And yes.. I know that one platform isn't compatible with another platform. That's my point. People keep bitching about Sprint and it's fee's so they are FREE to go to someone else, buy another phone and shut up. Everyone charges fees, cable, wireline phone service and I just read where even VoIP users will be paying a 9-1-1 fee soon. There are much dynamics involved with wireless service. Roaming agreements, data access, text messages, SMS text messages, portals, total service at 360degrees anywhere on earth. Paying 30 cents more a month isn't worth getting ones panties in a bunch. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to tc1uscg
said by tc1uscg :That's why the likes of Sprint, VZW and ATTM should STOP selling phones and let the manufactures sell the phones. They could "sell" the phones for them but at a price FIXED by the manufacture and stop subsidizing. Look at game systems. The PS3, 360 and Wii are pretty much the same price no matter where you go but you can get them from anyone who has shelf space. Sprint can sell you a Centro for whatever Palm says, you just pay Sprint for use of it's network. That way people like you and I don't have to worry about waiting for our 2 years to end before we can get an update. If having the latest and greatest is THAT important, we can shell out bucks and buy what we want, when we want. IF we don't like our provider, we can go somewhere else. Problem for us, the majority of us don't want to do go down that path. We can still buy insurance in case we loose our phone or break it outside the 1 year warranty but people seem to think cell companies should service the phones, and should kiss our ass everytime we walk in with a problem with the phone.  Fine, let the manufacturers sell you the phones. Motorola, Nokia, Qualcomm, and the rest of them can sell you either a CDMA or GSM phone depending on who you want service with. Let them even handle the warranty.
BUT, since the cell phone companies no longer subsidize the phone purchase with the monthly plans, where is the discount? Since a 2 year contract gives you a $300 discount on the phone, I want a $12.50/month savings on each plan I have.
Phones don't make the cell phone companies money. They break even just to get you to sign up for those 2 years.
You also forgot that each phone that works on each service needs programming and software to work. T-Mobile Sidekicks require connection to Danger to make the email and web browser work. Blackberries need special connections too.
You do realize also that GSM phones will not work on a CDMA system and the converse is also true.
It's amazing how cell phone companies treat people who have a contract and how they turn real nice right before it ends. |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to moonpuppy
That's why the likes of Sprint, VZW and ATTM should STOP selling phones and let the manufactures sell the phones. They could "sell" the phones for them but at a price FIXED by the manufacture and stop subsidizing. Look at game systems. The PS3, 360 and Wii are pretty much the same price no matter where you go but you can get them from anyone who has shelf space. Sprint can sell you a Centro for whatever Palm says, you just pay Sprint for use of it's network. That way people like you and I don't have to worry about waiting for our 2 years to end before we can get an update. If having the latest and greatest is THAT important, we can shell out bucks and buy what we want, when we want. IF we don't like our provider, we can go somewhere else. Problem for us, the majority of us don't want to do go down that path. We can still buy insurance in case we loose our phone or break it outside the 1 year warranty but people seem to think cell companies should service the phones, and should kiss our ass everytime we walk in with a problem with the phone. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to huntml
said by huntml :No disagreement here. Those of us with Sprint service have been scratching our heads at the company's inability to execute in this area for years. It all becomes a question of how much companies want to spend and what they think they will save if they don't spend.
And it's funny to hear the cable techs complain about the CSRs putting "single outlet install" on the ticket and they get to the location and the customer wants a DVR, 2 boxes and HSI. You would think a company that sells communications to practice it a bit themselves.  |
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huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ
 ·Comcast
| reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy :As I said earlier, if other companies can do it, so can Sprint. Telcos and cable companies do discount bundles all day long. Even the cell phone companies can keep track of your contract and when to charge you an ETF. If they can do that, then different plans and bundles shouldn't be an issue at all. You'd think so, wouldn't you?
quote:
If your company has systemic problems with billing, then you need to rectify those issues. How much extra money is it costing your company to hire extra CS agents to fix those same billing issues? Did Sprint really save any money by getting rid of all those who called in with billing issues?
No disagreement here. Those of us with Sprint service have been scratching our heads at the company's inability to execute in this area for years. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to tc1uscg
said by tc1uscg :I disagree. Are you saying that you would not have a cell phone if you had to pay 200 bucks for one? You wouldn't be under a contract. You could go to anyone else you wanted at any time but you would have to buy a new phone. See, I think thats the problem. People like you think the phones should be free, the service should be dirt cheap or free and you should still have 110% customer service. We made the industry the way it is, not the companies. We drove them to this "500 dollar phone for 100 bucks, if you sign a 2 year stay with us contract".. People are so caught up in this FREE/Get all I can get for nothing mindset. No, we made the bed. We allowed it and now people are fed up, cell phone providers are killing themselves trying to fix it and people still bitch. I'll be looking for your treo on ebay... So many assumptions.
I remember the days of the mobile phone with operators. Those phones weren't cheap and neither was the service.
Next came the cellular system. My first phone was a car model with a massive battery pack to make it portable. I paid $14.99/month to Bell Atlantic Mobile for 200 off-peak minutes. Peak minutes were $0.65/min.
Then Sprint Spectrum came in and made another network and everyone followed suit. Phones were still around $100-$200. Plans were getting cheaper and more people signed up.
Now, we have free phones and plans that have better pricing than some home phone plans.
Have you priced a phone without a contract? It is anywhere from $300 to $350 more. Do you seriously think the cell phone culture would be where it is right now had it not been for these discounted phones? Do you really think the cell phone companies make money off of the phones? Service is where the money is and that's where the cell phone companies focus their energy.
I have 2 T-Mobile Sidekicks. If I had to pay $600 for the phones, I would not be subscribing to the unlimited email, text messaging and a big bucket of minutes. Sure, I have a 1 year contract but I intend to keep the phone for that long.
Had the cell phone company not done the deals for handsets to get people signed up, we wouldn't be talking about this now. They wanted the customers, now they have to deal with it. Customer service is part of that equation. Don't sell something you have no intention of providing. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to huntml
said by huntml :Secondly, as you say, they could have prevented this ETF loophole from opening by grandfathering in the fee structure change, the sort of thing people in other similar industries seem to be able to do. But I would hazard at a guess that at least 50% of all customer service traffic for all wireless carriers is related to billing errors; they just seem as an industry to be bad at it. And based on my reading of various carrier forums at places like HowardForums, it seems pretty clear that Sprint is by far the worst of a bad lot in this regard. So again, I suspect that they did this thing in a blanket way rather, than grandfathering it, because there was recognition at some level that if they tried to do it in the way you suggest, they'd f*** it up, and have a big pile of complaints and billing screwups piled on top of the huge pile they already have to deal with every month. I don't know. Recognizing that you are incompetent at something you should be able to do as a key part of running your business, and making a decision to not try to do something relating to that area that, if you could do it, would have a net positive effect on your business, but, since you suck, you'd probably screw up, making things even worse: is this a smart thing for management of a company to do or not? I'm not sure.... As I said earlier, if other companies can do it, so can Sprint. Telcos and cable companies do discount bundles all day long. Even the cell phone companies can keep track of your contract and when to charge you an ETF. If they can do that, then different plans and bundles shouldn't be an issue at all.
If your company has systemic problems with billing, then you need to rectify those issues. How much extra money is it costing your company to hire extra CS agents to fix those same billing issues? Did Sprint really save any money by getting rid of all those who called in with billing issues? |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy Without the discounted phones, most people would not sign up for the service which is where the cell phone companies make their money. Turn off the phone subsidy and watch people not buy all those cool Treos, Blackberrys or any other cell phone. All the cool ringtones and games will be sitting on the virtual shelf because people need to pay off the expensive phones they bought. [/BQUOTE :I disagree. Are you saying that you would not have a cell phone if you had to pay 200 bucks for one? You wouldn't be under a contract. You could go to anyone else you wanted at any time but you would have to buy a new phone. See, I think thats the problem. People like you think the phones should be free, the service should be dirt cheap or free and you should still have 110% customer service. We made the industry the way it is, not the companies. We drove them to this "500 dollar phone for 100 bucks, if you sign a 2 year stay with us contract".. People are so caught up in this FREE/Get all I can get for nothing mindset. No, we made the bed. We allowed it and now people are fed up, cell phone providers are killing themselves trying to fix it and people still bitch. I'll be looking for your treo on ebay... |
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huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ
·Comcast
| reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy :As for the ETF's, again, the cell phone companies made their beds, now let them lie in it. I'll state my point again. If they didn't want to deal with this, they should have frozen rates for those who were still under contract and only raised them who were not under contract. Take some of that profit and invest it in a better billing system. If the cable companies and telcos (who provide video services) can set people into promotional deals for a couple of years and keep them straight (for the most part), then why can;t the cell phone companies do the same thing? I agree totally: they *do* deserve to get punished for this.
In the first place, the entire practice of levying these 'unfees' is intentionally deceptive at best and maybe even fraudulent at worst, and to the guy who brought up the fact that people are talking about an ETF out but no one is discussing the fact that CUSTOMERS SHOULD BE REFUNDED THESE UNFEES BECAUSE THEY SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN LEVIED IN THE FIRST PLACE, I agree with you too. Let's see if there's a class action coming out of this, I'd certainly be a party to such given a choice.
Secondly, as you say, they could have prevented this ETF loophole from opening by grandfathering in the fee structure change, the sort of thing people in other similar industries seem to be able to do.
But I would hazard at a guess that at least 50% of all customer service traffic for all wireless carriers is related to billing errors; they just seem as an industry to be bad at it.
And based on my reading of various carrier forums at places like HowardForums, it seems pretty clear that Sprint is by far the worst of a bad lot in this regard.
So again, I suspect that they did this thing in a blanket way rather, than grandfathering it, because there was recognition at some level that if they tried to do it in the way you suggest, they'd f*** it up, and have a big pile of complaints and billing screwups piled on top of the huge pile they already have to deal with every month.
I don't know. Recognizing that you are incompetent at something you should be able to do as a key part of running your business, and making a decision to not try to do something relating to that area that, if you could do it, would have a net positive effect on your business, but, since you suck, you'd probably screw up, making things even worse: is this a smart thing for management of a company to do or not? I'm not sure.... |
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Hambone
Hambone
join:2007-08-11
North Hollywood, CA | reply to Qumahlin
Now if we can just get Mayor Viva La Raza to rebate the city of Los Angele's' illegally collected phone tax! |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to tc1uscg
said by tc1uscg :I don't consider it a bomb shell. Heck, I've gotten 2 notices from credit card companies about how my card rate is being changed/compounded to cost me more if I carry over a balance. I've gotten a cable provider notice that my bill is going up 4 bucks and the gas prices keep going up and down then up more then down. It's a given. Why people are making such a big deal out of what Sprint is doing just proves people just want to complain about anything. My last AT&T L/L bill showed one fee went down but another is going up, killing any savings I would have noticed. I like to think of it as Sprint doing the right thing. As for the ETF's? I think we are seeing a new mindset in the wireless industry. IMO, all the wireless providers should do away with ETF's and just charge full price for the phone and let it go. Then we all can bitch about how costly our phones are and blame Sanyo, Samsung, Moto, LG and Apple for the problem. Then Sprint and others can just point at the manufactures and say, "hey, we are just resellers, it's not our fault". Without the discounted phones, most people would not sign up for the service which is where the cell phone companies make their money. Turn off the phone subsidy and watch people not buy all those cool Treos, Blackberrys or any other cell phone. All the cool ringtones and games will be sitting on the virtual shelf because people need to pay off the expensive phones they bought.
As for the ETF's, again, the cell phone companies made their beds, now let them lie in it. I'll state my point again. If they didn't want to deal with this, they should have frozen rates for those who were still under contract and only raised them who were not under contract. Take some of that profit and invest it in a better billing system. If the cable companies and telcos (who provide video services) can set people into promotional deals for a couple of years and keep them straight (for the most part), then why can;t the cell phone companies do the same thing? |
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
clubs: | reply to n2jtx
This is a great Feat of Strength for the customer! |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to esc0
said by esc0 :
tc1uscg,
Another bomb shell they dropped on us. Oh well counting the months til end of contract.
I don't consider it a bomb shell. Heck, I've gotten 2 notices from credit card companies about how my card rate is being changed/compounded to cost me more if I carry over a balance. I've gotten a cable provider notice that my bill is going up 4 bucks and the gas prices keep going up and down then up more then down. It's a given. Why people are making such a big deal out of what Sprint is doing just proves people just want to complain about anything. My last AT&T L/L bill showed one fee went down but another is going up, killing any savings I would have noticed. I like to think of it as Sprint doing the right thing. As for the ETF's? I think we are seeing a new mindset in the wireless industry. IMO, all the wireless providers should do away with ETF's and just charge full price for the phone and let it go. Then we all can bitch about how costly our phones are and blame Sanyo, Samsung, Moto, LG and Apple for the problem. Then Sprint and others can just point at the manufactures and say, "hey, we are just resellers, it's not our fault". |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| reply to PolarBear
said by PolarBear :Ever called T-mobile? That is by far my definition of what telephone customer service should be. Nope.. but my shift partner worked for T-Mobile long enough to be a pretty good gauge on what to expect in the surrounding markets and when dealing with customer service. Less then rosy picture he painted to say the least. |
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NwkEWR
Spare Me the Socialist B.S.
Premium
join:2002-04-10
Newark, NJ
·AT&T Yahoo
 ·Vonage
·Optimum Online
| reply to PolarBear
said by PolarBear :Ever called T-mobile? That is by far my definition of what telephone customer service should be. I could not disagree more with your statement, my experiences with T-Mobile's CC were so rotten that as soon as my 2 year contract ended in 2005, I immediately closed my account. I have been with VZW since June of 2005 when I consolidated my Sprint and Nextel accounts, I've only had to contact VZW's customer service 3 times in the more than 2 years that I've been with them and have received competent, professional and prompt service every time. I could get a free T-Mo Blackberry Curve via Amazon, NO THANKS, I can wait till RIM releases the curve on VZW's network either in Q1 or Q2 of 2008. T-Mo can suck my d* and so can AT&T Wireless which I dumped in 1999. My 2¢
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BEWARE: "We can't expect the American people to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism." - Nikita Khrushchev - |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03 | reply to tc1uscg
Ever called T-mobile? That is by far my definition of what telephone customer service should be. |
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esc0
@rr.com
| reply to Qumahlin
Qumahlin,
I still can't believe how the government allowed them to charge us all this time. Why don't they make Sprint pay us back for what they shouldn't have been doing in the first place?
It is amazing how when it's their time to pay back or just the thought of paying back they hesitate or turn the eye. But if we don't pay a bill they threaten you. It is sick and hope no one else signs up with them. |
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esc0
@rr.com | reply to tc1uscg
tc1uscg,
Another bomb shell they dropped on us. Oh well counting the months til end of contract. |
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