Barnaby
@qwest.net
| reply to Bill5309
Re: Heads up on EUP
Bill, the ban for excessive use is permanent? Many of the cable co's let banned customers back after six months or a year. (for excessive use, not alleged copyright violations)
On the other hand, I suppose that this is one way to get out of a contract with Qwest. I wonder if Qwest considers bundled customers more valuable? I have pots, wireless, directv, and broadband bundled through Qwest. If Qwest pulled the plug on any one, I think the customer would have some legal standing to void the contract as a whole.
Anyway, I probably use 4-5GB per month. I may try to shift some of those transfers to my work machine, or one of the dozens of open wireless networks around. |
|
danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
 ·MSN
 ·Mediacom
| reply to Bill5309
"I have yet to see any ISP set down hard numbers on this, as of yet."
Rogers, Bell Sympatico, Shaw, and I believe several other Canadian ISPs have specific bandwidth caps that they inform users of. Cox sets down a specific amount too, although they rarely enforce their policy. I have several friends on Belgian ISPs that have specific caps enforced by their ISPs. Xmission, which is a 3rd party Qwest ISP, has a specific cap.
I don't have time at the moment to dig up the specific caps for these ISPs (I know that several are around 100 gigs) but I will try to find the time later. I know that Bell in Canada has an overage policy where users can go over basically as much as they want as long as they pay more, and the overage fee is capped.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around... |
|
dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
united state
| reply to Bill5309
My question is, how can you monitor your total network usage? I know there are programs for your computers but what about other items such as Xbox, DVD players, web enabled tv and the such? Is there any hub or switch I can put between my items and router that monitors bandwidth? |
|
Bink
join:2006-05-14
Denver, CO
·Qwest.net
| You got me curious—and while I’m certain I could easily setup something to handle this, quickly looking at a few statistics of my UNIX-like router reveals the following:
$ uptime
12:40PM up 23 days, 4:16, 1 user, load averages: 0.14, 0.12, 0.09
$ netstat -bI pppoe0
Name Mtu Network Address Ibytes Obytes
pppoe0 1492 Link 1520808661 4282831193
So… ((1520808661/1024)/1024)/1024 gives me 1.4GB in 23 days. |
|
woodward
XMission Broadband
VIP
join:2000-12-28
Salt Lake City, UT
1 edit | reply to danawhitaker
said by danawhitaker  : Xmission, which is a 3rd party Qwest ISP, has a specific cap. Actually, we quietly removed the cap on DSL traffic about a year ago. It used to be a 100 GB limit that was only monitored during business hours (nights and weekends were free sailing).
We still have a cap on our basic FTTH service on UTOPIA, though. That is a bidirectional 50MBps/50 Mbps line that includes 500 GB/mo, with a 1 TB tier upgrade available. We have to limit that because on fiber a single user can rack up thousands of dollars in overages on our 95th percentile upstream costs. |
|
danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA | Thanks for clearing that up, woodward.  It's been a while since I've taken a close look at you guys.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around... |
|
cfossy
join:2007-04-05
Ottumwa, IA | reply to Bill5309
Seriously guys, leave Bill alone. He was just trying to protect you guys from having your service shut off. |
|
danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
·MSN
·Mediacom
| "Seriously guys, leave Bill alone. He was just trying to protect you guys from having your service shut off."
Do you think that's not what we're trying to do as well by asking for more specific details? I'm trying to take proactive measures to make sure that I never get one of those letters by finding out what the limits are, approximately. If and when more specific limits are given, then I will either go on my merry way or modify my usage accordingly. I don't like the idea that one random day I may get a letter in the mail saying "Oh, you used too much, cut back." and have no idea how much I would need to cut back by.
Would you like to live in a city where there were no speed limit signs, and the cops just pulled people over at random and told them they were going "too fast" and that they should "slow down" and that if it happened three times their drivers license would be taken away permanently? All we're asking from Qwest (and not specifically from Bill even, though he's taken the brunt of this because he created this thread and posted the warning) is to have a SPECIFIC policy in place. If we, as consumers, refuse to demand this from the companies we do business with, we're just asking for trouble in the future. Maybe if my connection were actually working properly, and Qwest's only solution to my speed not running at what it should be wasn't to downgrade me to 256/256, I might not be so disgruntled and outspoken right now. Now I'm starting to wonder if there's a correlation between Qwest's apathy at fixing connections that are only getting half the speed they're supposed to and their enforcement of their EUP.
Yes, I am passionate about this issue. I have been passionate about this issue when it wasn't even my ISP doing this - I railed about Comcast and Rogers and even tangled with woodward over Xmission's former policy a few times. Now that it's my own ISP, I definitely will stand up and take notice, unlike the majority of consumers who get blindsided by this stuff, or who take an apathetic stance. I apologize if I did lash out personally at Bill, because I know it's not his fault, but it's difficult and frustrating when you're asking questions and someone offers half-answers in return.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around... |
|
damox
Premium
join:2002-01-07
Olympia, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to dispatcher21
Not sure where you came up with 1-3 Gigabytes per month, but given the examples by Qwest as to what constitutes excessive usage, I'm thinking this is more like about 300 gigabytes or more per month. That's quite a bit, don't you think? If people can't live with that, they are probably using their connection for commercial purposes. Personally I think Qwest, and Comcast, who does the same thing, before cutting a user off, should first offer a business tier connection. I'm sure some folks would take that in lieu of being cut off.
--
DAMOX Proud to be a member of Team Discovery |
|
Stankus
join:2007-11-02
Ridgefield, WA
1 edit | reply to Bill5309
I asked this very question a couple of months back when I was considering using DirecTV's "on demand" feature. I was wondering what was considered abusive by Qwest.
I realize that there is cost associated with heavy bandwidth usage, and I personally wouldn't object to an additional (reasonable) charge if I went over a well published and agreed upon monthly usage maximum (just my opinion). It seems now that if you run over their somewhat fuzzy usage maximum, you may be terminated (after some warnings). I would prefer the following:
1) Give me a reasonable, well published maximum usage that my particular DSL tier can have. Give it to me in gigabytes, not number of email messages, number of photo downloads, etc.
2) Give me a way to monitor my current monthly usage (maybe through my qwest.com account?). This should at least be accurate to within the last 24 hour if not "real time". I can alter my usage pattern appropriately if need be based on this information.
3) If I go over my maximum, tell me how much per gig the additional usage will be. Maybe give a user the option to "temporarily suspend service for the month" that would kick in if they bumped against the maximum (so that they would never get a surcharge surprise). For everyone else going over the limit, expect the well published surcharge for overage per gigabyte.
These are just ideas from the peanut gallery (me); there are probably better ideas out there . Right now I'm afraid to use my on demand or xbox movie rentals because I don't want to be branded a bandwidth hog (since this is my only affordable broadband option, and I need it for work). |
|
woodward
XMission Broadband
VIP
join:2000-12-28
Salt Lake City, UT
1 edit | reply to Bill5309
From our observations, the 1-3 GB average was accurate two or three years ago.
But the Internet has always changed rapidly, and every day applications are always chewing up more and more bandwidth. Ten years ago everyone was on 28.8k and a 6 Mbps line with multi-gig downloads was unthinkable for an end consumer. Now, its virtually necessary.
Someone who just listens to online radio at work can go through dozens of gigs in a month. Because of YouTube, people who don't even know how to watch movies online are now watching dozens or even hundreds of videos. Professional streaming video is getting higher and higher bitrates (see HULU's HD streaming, or Netflix "high" rating). Major news and entertainment portals have embedded video and audio that are difficult even on a slower broadband connection.
iTunes and Amazon have also popularized what only a short time ago were unthinkably large downloads. Game demos have gone from a couple hundred megs to several gigs in size. And more and more causal applications use p2p functionality as a common means of distribution (even WoW uses p2p for content patches and updates).
Its the natural cycle, and one to which we as an industry need to continually adapt. This is just the next step toward the ultimate goal of the Internet, which is essentially a global fiber LAN where all digital information is virtually instantaneous (a goal we just may see in our lifetime).
This is something we've been struggling with recently, too. But the answer is not to randomly select top abusers and kick them off as some sort of lesson meant as a threat to keep others in check. The answer lies in education and openness, and a fair evaluation of the changing needs of the consumer. We must deliver a product that satisfies that need while aiding the ISP's transition to even greater future needs. Its quite the balancing act.
This isn't really a commentary on Qwest's actions. They've always been exceedingly liberal with their bandwidth policies, and should be recognized for that. It will be interesting to see if this signals a shift in policy to the Comcast model.
*****
(edit) addendum: just look at a couple posters in this thread who are using their data connection for perfectly reasonable and justifiable purposes and are now concerned that they may be classified as an "abuser" and disconnected. Their concern demonstrates that this policy is a failure, if you ask me. I know that concern is exactly what I try to avoid when we build broadband policy. |
|
questionable
join:2005-10-18
Phoenix, AZ | reply to Bill5309
Bill:
I have a question for you. Does this include VDSl users? I'm not sure how that works exactly even |
|
Bill5309
join:2007-06-02
Boise, ID
| reply to woodward
Thank you for your input and I can not say I disagree with your premis. This EUP policy truly only affects a handful of abusers on the Qwest network. The purpose of the post was to simply bring to light the fact that if you get a notification from Qwest on bandwidth use...do not ignore it. They are serious about this policy. We are no-where near the policing that some other providors do. Just don't ignore warnings, it can lead to perm disconnect from service. |
|
azjerry
join:2002-12-04
Phoenix, AZ
1 edit | reply to dispatcher21
I, too would be interested in this. I don't think my family and I are close to the limit but I don't really know. The only thing that I can see on my end is my Dlink router reports the number of packets rcvd/xmitted since the last reset of the stats. How many bits in a packet? I suppose if I check that on a set schedule that would help. |
|
senkami
join:2005-03-23
Portland, OR | Maybe announce a preferred or some unofficial limit for users to volunteer caping their bandiwdth in order to keep the network healthy. I hate seeing 640kbps I get 8pm-12am and I'm on the 7mbps plan. |
|
PCaseyCO
@direcpc.com
|  reply to Bill5309
No offense to Bill or others on here but the advertisements and literature say "Unlimited" that's pretty explicit. Either it's unlimited or limited. If they're advertising unlimited internet service how does Quest justify cutting people off or limiting their service? |
|
no_one
@QWEST.NET
| reply to Bill5309
said by Bill5309 :Thank you for your input and I can not say I disagree with your premis. This EUP policy truly only affects a handful of abusers on the Qwest network. The purpose of the post was to simply bring to light the fact that if you get a notification from Qwest on bandwidth use...do not ignore it. They are serious about this policy. We are no-where near the policing that some other providors do. Just don't ignore warnings, it can lead to perm disconnect from service. Yes for now according to Qwest a handful. Most abusers for now I believe have switched to cable.
Qwest tends to me to carry higher quality abusers. Executives that work from home at nights. Their families use the net. The husband and wife both work at home sometimes or at least check up. Maybe use VOIP. Their kids listen to free music and watch TV on the net. Go ahead alienate them I dare you.
Oh, the new CEO Qwest is guaranteed a bonus so why should he care. Really cut all costs who cares if Qwest loses more customers. Cut all costs. He has a guarantee. Hired by his previous underling. Payback for the new CEO. Customers be darned. A new sheriff in town out for a golden parachute. |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA | reply to PCaseyCO
Is it "unlimited service", or "unlimited access"? Do you have a link to a direct source?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
no_one
@QWEST.NET
| said by NormanS :Is it "unlimited service", or "unlimited access"? Do you have a link to a direct source? Darn lawyer speak.
We have definitions for all the words. |
|
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA | The definitions of all of the words are, intrinsically, accurate. Are they being used accurately?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
|
