gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
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join:2002-07-22
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| Cut off the head...
Cut off the head of the snake, if you expect to kill it.
These companies didn't approach the government, and say, hey man, would you guys like all this data. It is my understanding they were asked to do it.
Go after the ones who asked for the data in the first place.
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morbo
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edit:
December 17th, @03:14PM
| go after the ones that GAVE THE DATA WITHOUT A WARRANT: AT&T and VERZION.
this "excuse" is favored by the telco lobbyists fighting for immunity. AT&T and Verizon had a choice. they decided to break the law. period. |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
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Margate City, NJ
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| reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram  :Cut off the head of the snake, if you expect to kill it. These companies didn't approach the government, and say, hey man, would you guys like all this data. It is my understanding they were asked to do it.
Go after the ones who asked for the data in the first place. Eisenhower?; JFK? etc. Every administration since the cold war began has had access to this info.
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Tsume
BOBBARR2008 .COM
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| reply to gatorkram
So the govt is sued and is out billions of dollars instead of the telco... difference is that EVERYONE pays when the govt loses money, only telco subscribers pay when the telco loses money.
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram :These companies didn't approach the government, and say, hey man, would you guys like all this data. It is my understanding they were asked to do it. Go after the ones who asked for the data in the first place. That's exactly the point isn't it? We hear people say a crime was committed. But, those same people can't rise to the level of proving a crime through a court of impeachment. They want to lower the standard to proving those who followed the so-called ringleader committed a crime. But, they can't rise to that level either. So, they'll settle for "bleed 'em dry" civil court. The same place where hot coffee was abolished. Where cases are viewed as your chance to win the lottery.
And all the while we're to remember these are the high-minded folk, following the Constitution, taking the high road, quoting the founders (often out of context) to prove how different they are from the dirty pragmatists.
Mark |
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DotMac
Shill H8r
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join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA | reply to morbo
How their legal departments didn't see this coming from miles away is baffling
But if Verizon and AT&T are liable, so are those in gov't who took the information. Those people responsible should be sent to jail. |
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DotMac
Shill H8r
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join:2007-10-26
Huntington Beach, CA | reply to TK Junk Mail
Oh, so that makes it okay. |
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morbo
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| reply to DotMac
i'm sure there was an extensive discussion in the legal departments of these two companies, just like there was at Qwest.
agreed- AT&T and Verzion aren't the only ones that are guilty of breaking the law. However, good luck with tracing it into the bowels of the NSA... |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
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| reply to DotMac
said by DotMac :How their legal departments didn't see this coming from miles away is baffling But if Verizon and AT&T are liable, so are those in gov't who took the information. Those people responsible should be sent to jail. My guess is, the government told them, they would be protected, and so far, they were right.
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| reply to morbo
said by morbo :this "excuse" is favored by the telco lobbyists fighting for immunity. AT&T and Verizon had a choice. they decided to break the law. period. This "excuse" is favored by those who can't prove a law was broken. They aren't going to criminal court, but instead to that civil court. The same place you go when you spill hot coffee on yourself and it just *has* to be someone else's fault.
Can you guys quote the founders for that high-minded principle?
Mark |
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ropeguru
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| said by amigo_boy :said by morbo :this "excuse" is favored by the telco lobbyists fighting for immunity. AT&T and Verizon had a choice. they decided to break the law. period. This "excuse" is favored by those who can't prove a law was broken. They aren't going to criminal court, but instead to that civil court. The same place you go when you spill hot coffee on yourself and it just *has* to be someone else's fault. Can you guys quote the founders for that high-minded principle? Mark But if they are never taken to ANY court because they are given immunity, then we will never know. Now will we??
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| said by ropeguru :But if they are never taken to ANY court because they are given immunity, then we will never know. Now will we?? Is that an argument for trying all crimes in a civil court just because "it's easier?" We don't do that when other crimes have been committed. We're only doing it in this case because those who insist a crime occured can't rise to the level required to prove the crime (court of impeachment). They can't even prove it by taking telcos to criminal court.
Instead of sucking it up, and focusing on changing the government, they're simply resorting to civil court -- while quoting the founders to make it sound like they're the true, pure defenders of freedom and Constitutionality.
To me, it's as disgusting as what they accuse the telcos of. I wouldn't be proud of it. And, it's why the EFF doesn't speak for me.
Mark |
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TK Junk Mail
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Margate City, NJ
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edit:
December 17th, @04:10PM
| reply to DotMac
said by DotMac :Oh, so that makes it okay. It makes it OK by me because they are using the capability to protect the US from those who would do the whole country harm. And it is also OK by a majority of the Senators, including Democrats.
»news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071217/pl_···nes_dc_3
Backers of immunity, who include some Democrats as well many of Bush's fellow Republicans, contend companies should be thanked, not punished, for helping defend the United States.
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK
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| reply to DotMac
said by DotMac :But if Verizon and AT&T are liable, so are those in gov't who took the information. Those people responsible should be sent to jail. Unfortunately, there's a little thing getting in the way of suing the government for asking for the information in the first place: sovereign immunity |
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wierdo
join:2001-02-16
Tulsa, OK | reply to amigo_boy
Civil court is where you sue a company for violating its stated privacy policy. It's also where you recover damages for violation of the wiretap act. Yell at Congress if you don't like it, they wrote the laws allowing such suits. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| reply to TK Junk Mail
said by TK Junk Mail :And it is also OK by a majority of the Senators, including Democrats. I don't know. Maybe the Democrat party is trying to convince people that they actually love the USA. 
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CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
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| reply to TK Junk Mail
Except when they DON'T use it for that or bust the wrong folks... Lets see- we have several hundred prisoners in Cuba - only 80 are expected to face charges...
Lovely - the potential for incredible misuse or frankly - the wrong interpretation (remember - the justification for going into Iraq was with incorrect data and other data was ignored to justify the invasion) can lead to many years of no trial for US citizens and possibly no contact with lawyers to boot.
Sorry - terrorism has been around BEFORE there were telephones - if they have evidence then let them get a warrant but they don't get free reign stomp all over the Constitution because they are the govt.
Just because Democrats and Republican's want to trample the Constitution and break their sworn job to UPHOLD the Constitution, does not mean they are right to do so. This type of thing is what the Constitution is supposed to protect the citizens from but instead it is being ignored by both parties. nothing like irrational fear brought to you by the govt to justify ignoring the Constitution. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
·magicjack.com
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| reply to wierdo
said by wierdo :Civil court is where you sue a company for violating its stated privacy policy. It's also where you recover damages for violation of the wiretap act. Yell at Congress if you don't like it, they wrote the laws allowing such suits. I wish you guys would get your stories straight. All we hear about is how a "crime" was committed, and the telcos should be held responsible for their "criminal acts." When it's pointed out that "criminal" court is the place to prove such a claim, not "civil" court, suddenly it's about contractual violations and "damages." The same lower standards that to hot coffee to being banned.
But, all the while we're to remember that self-styled freedom fighters are pure, following the Constitution, and saving us from the pragmatists. (wink).
Mark |
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morbo
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| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :said by morbo :this "excuse" is favored by the telco lobbyists fighting for immunity. AT&T and Verizon had a choice. they decided to break the law. period. This "excuse" is favored by those who can't prove a law was broken. They aren't going to criminal court, but instead to that civil court. The same place you go when you spill hot coffee on yourself and it just *has* to be someone else's fault. if no law has been broken, enlighten us as to why AT&T is spending millions of dollars on lobbying to get immunity?
simple enough question. |
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ieolus
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join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | reply to amigo_boy
Violation of Civil Rights (4th Amendment perhaps?) is adjucated in civil court, no?
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