Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
 ·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Velcom
edit:
December 18th, @12:33PM
| Is there life after the SpeedTouch?
Hi,
It seems difficult to question beliefs around here
about the famous Thomson SpeedTouch 5x6 series and
i'd bet others wonder as well. How many years can
we expect the ST's reputation to last? Doesn't it
make sense to look elsewhere for newer solutions!?
I keep reading that the ST is "better" but what is
it compared against exactly and, most importantly,
where's the evidence? Why does it become personal
(if not rude & vulgar) when individuals such as me
dare to share their not so great experience with a
product?!... Has a religious cast taken over this
forum or is it just my fertile imagination?!? Why
when talking numbers are there people to turn into
politics and how come will others enter the dance?
I expect quality when i pay for it, specially when
it is boldly advertised. I demand respect for me,
for the money i lend down and also for the others.
My Question is this: how would you like to have a
tabloid where every single device is compared with
the others, in concordance to multiple parameters,
using controlled environments to emulate all sorts
of situations so that you can get more for less???
Now, here's another question: why don't we get it
from our ISPs already since they're supposed to be
the ones who have knowledge, considering that they
are the ones that make a living out of it anyway!?
Euh... Why not a 3rd: how much money does a user
need to spend over specialized HardWare before the
attitude towards him will start to sound positive? |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Monsieur Bi-Cephale,
Some men want women with big tits, others want nice legs, others want nice eyes/hair etc.
Similarly, some want modems that are simple to setup, some want a modem that reports higher SNR and lower attenuation, some want modems that have a good CLI and documentation, some want good modem security, some want good network management features (SYSLOG, SNMP , TFTP/FTP to download configs etc), some may want to have a serial port to get to the modem no matter what.
I bought a 516 and never actually put it in production. I tried to pair down its config to remove any superflous servces I don't need. But I am not sure it is superior to my old 3com from a management point of view.
Once of those days, I will plug it in and spend time to figure out from the CLI the SNR/atteniation parameters to see if it really is better than my 3com.
However, my old 3com (dates back from my istop days) doesn't do ADSL2, the 516 does.
My 3com has filters that allow only PPPoE packets through, this ensures that decnet, SCS, Appletalk TCPIP and any other protocols don't pass through to leave my site. I couldn't find a way to do this on the 516.
My needs are probably peculiar.
In terms of ISPs knowing their modems, this is all relative. I can't expect my ISP to know how to configure my 516 the way I need it to be, they won't learn the intricacies of that elaborate CLI just to please my personal needs.
So I don't expect ISPs to know these modems intimately. They will know if they are generally good, generally easy to setup and if they generate a lot of phone calls for support or not. But they woN't know if it has certain capabilities that one individual needs for his setup.
The 516 is really meant as a residential modem, not a business/small business one. |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to Bicephale
When considering this subject, consider that any modem chosen must perform acceptably with zero tweaking; the vast majority of people will never even look at their line stats, let alone try to tweak it. The SpeedTouch series have a reasonable price, comparatively good performance, and seem to be pretty reliable. They also support every relevant standard. There is, at present, no reason to look beyond the ST series.
If you want to buy yourself a different modem, you're completely free to do so. Your crusade to force your choices on the rest of us, however, is unwelcome. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Velcom
| reply to jfmezei
Hi JFMezei,
It will be hard for me to argue with you because i
believe we share the same opinions but one: sorry
but i wouldn't get married to someone i never seen
before!!! That's the thing with those SpeedTouch:
the vocabulary that describes them is quite vague,
which doesn't stop people from making all sorts of
statements about the result of my comparisons when
they can't provide numbers themselves. It is thru
sharing information that the customers will gain a
better picture and i'm afraid only users can do it
because no ISP is going to conduct objective tests
for us. Lets start here, i welcome your own data:
Thomson SpeedTouch 546v6 - 10 Thousand CRC Errors per Day
GNet BB0060B - 2 Thousand CRC Errors per Day
When i write that something is better it's because
i've compared it against something else, right now
the only evidence i have at hand doesn't plead for
the ST546v6 considering how it performed in my own
case. Of course it's not a laboratory-grade test-
bench where all parameters can be controlled but i
used the same line for both tests so it means i've
submitted each unit to nearly identical conditions
and i wouldn't expect much more from any customer.
As far as i'm concerned, i'd say 1st things 1st so
that means getting on-line and staying up. That's
why i came to trust the CRC Error rate while i try
to keep an eye on Synchronization. It's been very
impractical to collect a CRC Error rate curve with
my ST but i managed to get a Ten Days sample and i
have done it despite re-synchronizations which can
reset the counters... I'll leave it to the future
buyer to choose what he needs but when we discuss
noise i can't agree that the ST series is "better"
with these graphics in mind! My Thomson failed to
differentiate real data from noise more often than
my old GNet BB0060B has unless the CRC Errors rate
measured on one device isn't equivalent to that on
another but anyone who will criticize this measure
must be prepared to provide a solid explanation!!!
In any case, as a customer i think that i went far
beyond my obligations so lets not expect of others
that they contribute with professional-grade input
when the professionals themselves won't dare to...
 |
|
Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
·Colbanet
·TekSavvy Solutions..
edit:
December 19th, @02:08AM
| Apparently I've been added to Bicephales "twit list". Good to hear. I've always been a big fan of Leo Laporte's TWiT podcast. I didn't realize that the TekSavvy folks were also fans of the show.
Anyhow, back on-topic, you enjoy posting the same graphs over and over again, but they're effectively meaningless. While it's neat that you've been able to tweak your own hardware, and while it's mildly interesting that the old BB0060 handles noise better than the ST516, that's really irrelevant on the whole. What does it matter? The ST516 is a more logical choice for modern consumers. |
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TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON | reply to Bicephale
Just keep burning those bridges Bicephale.
--
TSI Marc - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON | reply to Guspaz
I just got one too. 
I guess that's his genius at work... go figure, I'm partial to TekSavvy. lol
--
TSI Marc - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
|
Old Computer
Premium
join:2002-04-12
Europe
| reply to Bicephale
said by Bicephale  :Hi, It seems difficult to question beliefs around here about the famous Thomson SpeedTouch 5x6 series and i'd bet others wonder as well. How many years can we expect the ST's reputation to last? Doesn't it make sense to look elsewhere for newer solutions!? Maybe sooner... Does the ST5xxV6 handle IPV6 Specs ?
Some French ISP start to use IPv6 (free.fr). |
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TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
| reply to Bicephale
said by Bicephale :...Why does it become personal (if not rude & vulgar) when individuals such as me dare to share their not so great experience with a product?!... Because you instigate it.
--
TSI Marc - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
|
Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Velcom
| reply to Old Computer
Hi Old Computer,
Nice question! Maybe we can start searching here:
Google Search: "SpeedTouch IP6To4"
 |
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC | Unless I'm mistaken, they should at the very least work in bridged mode with IPv6. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | reply to Old Computer
Hi again Old Computer,
Here's what i found:
Internet: IPV6 and Thomson Speedtouch 500 series |
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Old Computer
Premium
join:2002-04-12
Europe
edit:
December 18th, @02:53PM
| Nice find !! I will try this.
Edit* Does not change anything for me because I am still using IPv4, but I have read on a French forum that the NAT and Firewall will not be working anymore.
IPv6 assign a public IP to each computer on your Network. So, back to software Firewall (I you don't have one already). |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | Oh, by the way... Toroïdal cores as yours do really help!
One of these days i'll need to document it with numbers...
|
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Old Computer
Premium
join:2002-04-12
Europe
| Glad to know that...
(OT) I am trying to get a better symmetry from my land aerial line in order to get better SNR.
I use a master splitter from LEA »www.leacom.fr and I could get the technical specs of the filter. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Velcom
| Hi,
I hear you loud and clear! My toroïdal cores came
from old Power Supply units so i must point out it
wasn't possible to control permeability: i simply
captured a dozen spectral response snapshots after
removing one turn each time and then it was a only
a matter of guessing which one worked best for me.
You'd do me a favour if you could get a diagram of
the "POTS Splitter" which is depicted right below:
The customer's own wiring, Bicephale, 2007-Oct-30
This is a different device but i'm really curious!
 |
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Old Computer
Premium
join:2002-04-12
Europe
edit:
December 18th, @03:49PM
| That is ...
edit* Not exactly your installation. There is no pass band for the ADSL signal. It's derived directly from the pots line. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
·Velcom
edit:
December 18th, @04:19PM
| Miam! 60 dB rejection @ 40 KHz that's like refined music!...
Any idea if the cores can be found in Amidon's catalog? |
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Gwai Lo Dan
join:2007-01-24
St Catharines, ON
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei :Monsieur Bi-Cephale, Some men want women with big tits, others want nice legs, others want nice eyes/hair etc. As Jerry Seinfeld said, "why would I be a leg man? I have legs!" |
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TSI Gabe
Network Kung Fu
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Chatham, ON
| reply to Bicephale
said by Bicephale :Is there life after the SpeedTouch I don't know...that really depends on your religion I guess :-P. Death...maybe the light at the end of the tunnel...not quite sure.
Anyhow. I think this is rather irrelevant, As for any other product on the market, it's not always the absolute best modem that wins. It's usually a combination of cost, dependability, ease of use etc... I guess you could compare that to car shopping...sure everyone would like to have this...
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Veyron (At least I would)
But can everyone afford it?...no....
Conclusion: It's only a matter of choice. |
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