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aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
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diluting oil based polyurethane

I have some leftover polyurethane for floor (1/2 gallon exterior & 1/2 gallon interior) and they both appear significantly denser than when I first used them. What would be the best to use to dilute them?

TIA

robbin
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join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
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Try Penetrol


Icarus
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reply to aurgathor


Mineral spirits


Warzau
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Naperville, IL
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said by Icarus:

Mineral spirits
Second that.

robbin
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Leander, TX
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We did some painting this summer with polyurethane porch paint. My helper thinned some with mineral spirits against my wishes. We had to repaint almost everything that was painted with the mineral spirits thinned poly. The gloss was not uniform and varied from full gloss to flat. We had no problems with the poly which we thinned with Penetrol.

Penetrol is recommended for use in polyurethane by The Flood Company.


Warzau
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Naperville, IL
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said by robbin:

We did some painting this summer with polyurethane porch paint. My helper thinned some with mineral spirits against my wishes. We had to repaint almost everything that was painted with the mineral spirits thinned poly. The gloss was not uniform and varied from full gloss to flat. We had no problems with the poly which we thinned with Penetrol.

Penetrol is recommended for use in polyurethane by The Flood Company.
Hmm learn something new every day.. Sitemarked


Icarus
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reply to robbin
Ive never had a problem thinning poly with mineral spirits and Ive been in the painting business for over 30 years. What you describe sounds more like uneven application of the product or it was applied in direct sunlight or possibly even adding MS to a poly enhanced latex product.
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Team Helix- Folding@Home and Rosetta@Home


Icarus
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reply to aurgathor
said by aurgathor:

I have some leftover polyurethane for floor (1/2 gallon exterior & 1/2 gallon interior) and they both appear significantly denser than when I first used them. What would be the best to use to dilute them?

TIA
BTW,what are your plans for the poly? I would advise against mixing the 2 as exteriors polys are less durable than interior versions.(hence the need for soft deck shoes on a boat deck vs bowling alley finishes). Also,if its been sitting a while be sure to strain it before use and avoid the little hard bits that might have formed over time.
--
Team Helix- Folding@Home and Rosetta@Home

robbin
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Leander, TX
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reply to Icarus
It was applied properly. It wasn't latex modified. The problem seemed to be that unless the painter was diligent in continuing to stir the poly frequently it would start separating and as the thinner rose to the surface you were painting with a higher diluted product and the thinner it was the less the gloss. The poly with the Penetrol in it didn't have his problem as well as just handling better overall.


dolphins
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said by robbin:

It was applied properly. It wasn't latex modified. The problem seemed to be that unless the painter was diligent in continuing to stir the poly frequently it would start separating and as the thinner rose to the surface you were painting with a higher diluted product and the thinner it was the less the gloss. The poly with the Penetrol in it didn't have his problem as well as just handling better overall.
Were you using a water based poly?
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Icarus
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1 edit
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

It was applied properly. It wasn't latex modified. The problem seemed to be that unless the painter was diligent in continuing to stir the poly frequently it would start separating and as the thinner rose to the surface you were painting with a higher diluted product and the thinner it was the less the gloss. The poly with the Penetrol in it didn't have his problem as well as just handling better overall.
Polys are essentially made up of a blend of drying oil,resin and a solvent/thinner(mineral spirits) so what you describe doesnt seem logical. Seems more likely a problem under which the product was applied.
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Team Helix- Folding@Home and Rosetta@Home

robbin
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Leander, TX
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reply to dolphins
said by dolphins:

Were you using a water based poly?
No -- I was using Glidden Porch & Floor Polyurethane Oil Gloss.

»www.duspec.com/datasheet/datashe···atasheet

Note -- in the data sheet it states "Do not thin".

It was hard finding information regarding adding Penetrol but found the following

"To Improve Varnish Work
Add 20 to 30% Penetrol Wood Oil to all oil and alkyd based varnish
as well as 1-part polyurethanes. The varnish will become more flexible,
resist cracking and peeling and will flow without leaving brush marks.
NOT SUITABLE IN 2-PART POLYURETHANES OR EPOXIES."

»floodaustralia.net/brochures/5216woodoil.pdf

I rarely ever thin oil based paint, preferring the workability of Penetrol but until I found the above I was uncertain if it could be added to Polyurethane. Penetrol is not a thinner -- it is a conditioner.

robbin
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Leander, TX
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reply to Icarus
said by Icarus:

Polys are essentially made up of a blend of drying oil,resin and a solvent/thinner(mineral spirits) so what you describe doesnt seem logical. Seems more likely a problem under which the product was applied.
It was applied in the shade, temperatures were in the 80s, and humidity was around 50%. Just about perfect painting weather for Texas. All I can say is we has hell with the mineral spirits / poly combination yet had absolutely no problems with the penetrol / poly combination. On top of that, the penetrol improved the workability of the poly over either straight poly or the thinned version. There were no negatives other than adding perhaps 10% to the drying time.


dolphins
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Yeah I guess mineral spirits was a bad idea with that product. Is your helper still with you?

Thanks for the info on Penetrol.
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Icarus
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2 edits
reply to robbin
What it sounds like to me is the floor just needed a second coat and you are blaming the thinning of the first on having to do a second coat. Horizontal surfaces,especially where there are extremes of weather,whether its rain,snow,heat,cold or sun need to be done on a yearly basis. Notice the warranties on exterior floor products....nearly all are 1 year and some now giving 2. If the floor is flashing as you describe,it was probably long over due for a paint job and needed 2 from the start.
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robbin
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That could be true except we weren't painting a floor. We were painting an entry way -- front door, window trim, screen door, etc. We were using the poly because they didn't have an oil base for the dark trim color we were using. All surfaces were in good condition before we started. The entry is protected from the weather. We didn't figure out what the problem was until the second coat had dried. I am positive that three coats were not originally needed -- but that is what we had to do.

As an aside -- the floor and porch paint appears to work very well as a trim paint for surfaces which receive a lot of traffic. It looks very good and is holding up well. It cleans easily and there hasn't been any chipping. I will do it again -- but next time no thinner, just Penetrol!


Icarus
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So you were using product designed for floors on trim and had problems? Product with a lesser guarantee/warranty when for a few bucks more you could have bought good material? Porch and deck paints are disposable after a year and you use them on trim? Shame shame......
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Team Helix- Folding@Home and Rosetta@Home


aurgathor

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Lynnwood, WA
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reply to Icarus
said by Icarus:

BTW,what are your plans for the poly? I would advise against mixing the 2 as exteriors polys are less durable than interior versions.
I just want to put one coat on the top side of some 3/4" particle boards (floor for a walk in closet) before assembly. (I will put on another coat or two later on, but that won't happen for a while)

When you say mineral spirit, you mean just paint thinner, or something more specific?

BTW, the polys are from Home Depot; Minwax fast drying polyurethane, and Minwax indoor/outdoor helmsman spar urethane, both clear semi-gloss. I last used them 3 and 5 months ago.


Ken
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Markle, IN
said by aurgathor:

When you say mineral spirit, you mean just paint thinner, or something more specific?
When you go to the store you will see containers marked as mineral spirits, and others marked as paint thinner. I don't know what the difference is, but they sell them in two different containers, so I'm guessing they are different. I don't really know though.
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robbin
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Leander, TX
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reply to Icarus
said by Icarus:

So you were using product designed for floors on trim and had problems? Product with a lesser guarantee/warranty when for a few bucks more you could have bought good material? Porch and deck paints are disposable after a year and you use them on trim? Shame shame......
Let's see if I can clarify this for you. I was using Glidden paint in a dark color. They DO NOT make a base in a gloss alkyd paint for the dark color I was using. I had NO choice if I didn't want latex but to go with the poly porch and floor paint. It was NOT cheaper. They BOTH have the same guarantee.

Do you truly believe that polyurethane is of a lesser quality than alkyd paint? If so please provide a link.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
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reply to aurgathor
Mineral spirit appeared to work just fine. It's still a bit tacky after a day, but that's probably due to the mid to low 40's, especially since when I used it undiluted several days, it was roughly the same, or maybe even a bit more tackier.


Icarus
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Poly is notorious for drying slowly,thats the down side. But it does provide an amazing finish when its done. With mineral spirits as the main ingredient to most poly's its not surprising that it worked well as a thinner for you.
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Icarus
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reply to robbin
said by robbin:

said by Icarus:

So you were using product designed for floors on trim and had problems? Product with a lesser guarantee/warranty when for a few bucks more you could have bought good material? Porch and deck paints are disposable after a year and you use them on trim? Shame shame......
Let's see if I can clarify this for you. I was using Glidden paint in a dark color. They DO NOT make a base in a gloss alkyd paint for the dark color I was using. I had NO choice if I didn't want latex but to go with the poly porch and floor paint. It was NOT cheaper. They BOTH have the same guarantee.

Do you truly believe that polyurethane is of a lesser quality than alkyd paint? If so please provide a link.
Youre arguing paint vs clear finish.....polyurethane vs paint??? Big difference there me thinks,yes?
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Team Helix- Folding@Home and Rosetta@Home

robbin
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I haven't said anything about a clear finish. I simply stated that I have had problems thinning polyurethane paint with mineral spirits. I stand behind what I have said. I would not recommend thinning poly with mineral spirits. On the other hand, I have had very good luck using Penetrol and highly recommend it. If you have a problem with using Penetrol with polyurethane then please state why. Otherwise I don't see any reason for you to continue criticizing my recommendation.


Icarus
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The OP asked about polyurethane,which is a clear finish....youre arguing about paint,which isnt....Im not understanding youre argument? Youre not making any sense.....
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Team Helix- Folding@Home and Rosetta@Home

robbin
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Leander, TX
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Polyurethane is not a clear finish, it is a polymer. It can be used to modify either paint or varnish. It is usually oil based. I don't believe there to be any major differences in polyurethane oil paint and polyurethane oil clear finish in either methods of application, usage, or additives to be used with it. The original question was not clear regarding the type of polyurethane finish involved, but I do not believe that it really matters. I stand by my recommendation for using Penetrol in either.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
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While I didn't exactly specify in the 1st post what I was talking about, I don't think there's many other product labeled as "polyurethane" for floors.


Ken
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join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

Polyurethane is not a clear finish, it is a polymer. It can be used to modify either paint or varnish. It is usually oil based. I don't believe there to be any major differences in polyurethane oil paint and polyurethane oil clear finish in either methods of application, usage, or additives to be used with it. The original question was not clear regarding the type of polyurethane finish involved, but I do not believe that it really matters. I stand by my recommendation for using Penetrol in either.
I think we've already had this conversation before. When the average person says polyurethane they are talking about one specific product, and that is an oil based clear coat that is put over wood.

»Re: Refinished wood floors now bad smells
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