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| FairTax Calculator For all of those out there tired of the lame tax system we have here in the US, check out the FairTax.
They've launched a new income calculator and you have to love the numbers. However, I will say they don't ask how much you spend, but given you get so much more back, you can now choose to spend more, less or if you have the proper *cartman voice-over* discipline SAVE it and then spend the interest you make  . This of course assumes FairTax gets put into place, which with the grassroots support growing everyday can happen, if you take action as well.
»www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?···lculator
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»www.fairtax.org | |
| I think I like Ron Paul's idea of abolishing the IRS better. | | |
|
 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Lumberjack
said by Lumberjack:For all of those out there tired of the lame tax system we have here in the US, check out the FairTax. They've launched a new income calculator and you have to love the numbers. However, I will say they don't ask how much you spend, but given you get so much more back, you can now choose to spend more, less or if you have the proper *cartman voice-over* discipline SAVE it and then spend the interest you make . This of course assumes FairTax gets put into place, which with the grassroots support growing everyday can happen, if you take action as well. » www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?···lculator Dumb idea. 23% sales tax? No thanks. The 9.75% I'm paying now is prohibitive.
Oh and this "prebate" crap. That sounds a lot like earned income credit which is an oxymoron in of itself. Why give out a prebate? How about not tax so much in the first place? It's like they say "Ok were going to charge you 23% which will be too much for you to pay so here's check" does that even make sense? The government handing out checks is one of the reasons we have problems.
By the way a nation sales tax is unconstitutional anyways and we already have a unconstitutional tax it's called the INCOME TAX and we don't need to replace one unconstitutional tax with another. | |
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| reply to COrampdog
said by COrampdog:I think I like Ron Paul's idea of abolishing the IRS better. Ron Paul supports the FairTax as-is. Also, the FairTax defense abolishing the IRS as well.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
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| reply to BF69
Hmm. You should read more about the FairTax before you hastily dismiss it.
I'm assuming you're state sales tax is 9.75%. If so the 23% inclusive rate would be on top of that which is 30%; meaning your "tax" sub-total would be .33 cents.
FairTax replaces the current revenue collection for the Federal Government. The 23% inclusive rate is effectively what we pay the fed now. This doesn't just come from income tax as is, but the extra taxes you're employer pays, tax paid by companies whom you buy services/retail, etc...
Everybody likes to say taxation is unconstitutional. But the Constitution does grant the government to levy taxes and there is an amendment allowing income taxation. FairTax would repeal that as well as amend itself.
This "prebate" crap is not crap. It's the means to ensure that nobody pays tax below the poverty level. It's given out because people who make less than $25k/year (not sure of the actual amount) will effectively pay no taxes on any survival goods/services. The prebate process is way easier to manage than giving out forms and documents showing retailers you don't have to pay tax. BTW, EVERYBODY gets the prebate... it's not a welfare system.
"The government handing out checks is one of the reasons we have problems". I'm assuming you're referring to welfare or whatever. Agree, the feds should stay out of the social program business all together. However, FairTax only replaces the means of collection, the means to fix spending is another topic.
For me, the benefit of FairTax is that I get what I earn. If my employer pays me $100k/year then that's what I get to take home, and that's ALL that exists as a cost to the employer beyond benefits, etc.. (in other words, they don't have to pay half social security, extra income tax, etc..). No more W-4s, April 15th headaches, etc.. If you just want to buy only survival goods and save the rest up you don't have to pay tax on your savings or the interest.
The FairTax basics:
- You get 100% of what you earn (how could anybody not like this?)
- You pay tax only on the money you spend.
- You pay no tax for investment (money, and human: education).
- You are granted a prebate so you end up paying no tax for survival goods/services (though the fed may poorly caculate this).
- YOU KNOW HOW MUCH TAX YOU ACTUALLY PAY (yes, you actually pay MORE tax than "income tax paid" on your 1040s).
- Tax is collected even from drug dealers, illegals, tourists, etc..
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»www.fairtax.org | |
| Agreed in theory... but the Republicrats and the Democlins don't want this. So it won't happen. | |
BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | reply to Lumberjack
said by Lumberjack:Hmm. You should read more about the FairTax before you hastily dismiss it. You should actually learn more about it before you blindly accept 33% sales tax.
I'm assuming you're state sales tax is 9.75%. If so the 23% inclusive rate would be on top of that which is 30%; meaning your "tax" sub-total would be .33 cents.
FairTax replaces the current revenue collection for the Federal Government. The 23% inclusive rate is effectively what we pay the fed now. This doesn't just come from income tax as is, but the extra taxes you're employer pays, tax paid by companies whom you buy services/retail, etc...
This "prebate" crap is not crap. It's the means to ensure that nobody pays tax below the poverty level. It's given out because people who make less than $25k/year (not sure of the actual amount) will effectively pay no taxes on any survival goods/services. Sure they do. When they go to the store they are going to get charged the tax. The store isn't going to ask for proof of income. Sure I might get a check LATER, but that doesn't help when the $1000 Tv I want cost me $1330.
Gas is already $3 a gallon add this tax and now it's $4 a gallon REAL smart.
The FairTax basics:
- You get 100% of what you earn (how could anybody not like this?) Then still end up giving a sizable chunk to the government anyways. And the poor would actually pay MORE in taxes. This is a tax only the rich would love.
- You pay no tax for investment (money, and human: education). Nice way for the rich to avoid paying taxes. Hey win $100 mil in the lottery only pay a few thousand in taxes. How nice.
- You are granted a prebate so you end up paying no tax for survival goods/services (though the fed may poorly caculate this). This is the flaw in your whole argument. This only works IF the government can accurately give the poorest the correct amount of pre-bate which you yourself admit they could mess up. That's a HUGE risk don't you think?
Also the poor already get a prebate it's call EARNED INCOME CREDIT.
If you want a tax that will send the ecomony in a tailspin that will make the 1930's look like playtime this is it. You CAN NOT expect people to suddenly pay and extra 23% sales tax at the store and then not have it affect thier shopping habbits just because they get a promise of a check sometime later. | |
 furloniumComputer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA | With the Fair Tax, you get:
-.56% MORE
spendable income.
-$124.51 MORE
purchasing power.
$68.46 LESS
federal taxes.
No thanks.
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»www.myspace.com/intranet
I once had a dream that Sean Connery stayed at my apt., and he had his laptop with Win98 on it, and he knew how to connect to my wireless network. I don't do drugs  | |
| reply to Lumberjack
said by Lumberjack:For all of those out there tired of the lame tax system we have here in the US, check out the FairTax. You know what I'm tired of? The claim that having money stolen from me to pay for things that I have never used, don't use now, and will never use is perfectly legitimate.
The only "fair tax" system I'm aware of is one that charges me for goods and services I do use, and does not charge me for those I do not.
The "fairtax" folks aren't advocating anything significantly different from what we have now: people having their money taken from them, dumped into a big pot, and then whichever group is the most politically powerful at the moment gets to decide how it is disposed of.
(And if they f*ck up and overspend, that's okay: the State can always go back and demand an even bigger cut of your property because, after all, the State has the "right" to survive, even if it's at the expense of you and yours.)
IOW: the fairtax people aren't disputing that the engine of the State needs to be stoked with property stolen from others, only how much money ought to be cheerfully stolen from people to keep the whole sick and sordid mess going.
Simply put, they [the State] force all to contribute to their treasury, for the creation of products and services that no one has a choice about accepting, at a cost that always escalates.
When you're serious about having politicians (and their constituents, let's not forget them) stop their stealing and start behaving in a fiscally and morally responsible manner, call me.
Otherwise, all you're doing is seeking to lend further legitimacy to a system that is built on taking from Peter and giving to Paul because it's "for the children" (or "supporting the troops" or whatever the bullsh*t-of-the-moment happens to be).
And, no, I don't hate you for believing as you do. I can hardly blame you for feeling that way since politicians make such a fetish of "free education" for all that does not teach people how to think for themselves, (Ghod forbid!) but instead teaches them from an ever-younger age that All Good Things come to people from the Hand of the State (you know, the hand that permanently resides in your pocket). | |
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| reply to Lumberjack
Honestly I thought my tax would be significantly higher with FairTax. In fact, because of how much I spend I'm pretty sure that I would end up paying more tax, and if that's what it takes to get started with a change, so be it. The thing I like the most like I've stated before is that if my salary/wage is X/year then dammit, I'll get X/year. I can then save that money and spend it after it earns interest to buy things... not the government. They get it, spend it immediately and it's never accumulated any interest for me or them.
Once it's in place, it will be so much easier for people to realize that they are paying too much taxes and give no room for the power hungry government to hide. Changing the taxed amount adjusts ONE number vs. several hundred lines of tax code. I.e., now they can say they reduced our taxes, but somewhere else it gets raised. With only one number to change, any 3rd grader will know if tax went up or down.
lowtax, it's not about hate/love, it's about making an effort to change the bad system with a better one (though, nobody will say it's perfect, not even myself). It's better because it's orders of magnitude more simple. You're concerns are more about what happens to the money once it's collected. I think everybody has that concern, but that's not what FairTax is about. FairTax is about replacing the system to collect revenue for the Federal government.
If people are going all-politics here they should note that FairTax is bi-partisan and has support from both of the major parties. But as I'm sure most speculate that the idea of a system that favors savings/investment must be an anti-democrat/socialist agenda. I hate (yes, hate) that the federal government has grown beyond what is dictated in the constitution and has way too many social programs that do more harm than good and that also have favoritism of funding based on who's who on the power tree in Congress. The advantage of FiarTax in this respect is that the Congress can no longer use the income tax system as a means of control over people (and as lower-income folks like to believe, the Democrats are their number one target).
Again, everybody regardless of income pays the SAME tax and gets the SAME pre-bate. And you know what, for low incomes the pre-bate will make a huge difference. But the rich get the same thing and in fact, the pre-bate would be insignificant (for some reason people think paying a pre-bate to the rich helps the rich get rich). There are also significant studies that show that the "rich" will still continue with the same donations/contributions to charitable organisations as before if not more after FairTax, even if there is no tax-incentive for it. I for one would be in a better position to give to charity if the government didn't force me to do it now (I have no control over 30% of my income as based on my W-2s).
Sorry for the long winded text here but it's getting really old hearing side-topics of talk of a lack of understanding what the FairTax actually is. People are out to discredit it before understanding of it, and really, I'm out to try and get 100% of what I worked for, not 70%. Even if you whittle down all of my deductions I still only end up with maybe 80% of my income, and my employer's cost for me (without benefits) is 20% more on top of that. It'd be nice to get 120% more in salary (i.e, earn my cost to the company) vs. just the salary part of my cost to the company now.
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»www.fairtax.org | |
| If, as you say, I end up with more money in my pocket as a result of the FairTax, then I would probably support it.
However, to be frank, the fact that it's supported by both parties makes me suspicious. I recall reading that the FairTax was held by its supporters to be "revenue neutral," but when you actually ran the numbers, the FairTax allowed the Feds to come out ahead (i.e they suck up more of your money). Which is why both parties support it.
You can take a look at the case against the FairTax here:
»www.mises.org/story/1975
The FairTax proposal somehow reminds me of Vernon Smith's
experimental economics work with NASA. Smith set up a trading system for the Cassini mission (1997) to allocate the resources that that each on-board experiment used: energy, mass, and volume. The idea was to come up with the most efficient use of these three resources.
In Smith's words:
That was the first space mission that came in without a big cost overrun. But they never did that sort of market allocation again. Why? Because there's a lot of people that like things the way they are. They can run the current system and they don't care about waste. NASA's space station is now about $5 billion over budget. We've proposed selling enough space on that station to earn $5 billion. I don't know whether there's a market for that, but why not take a look at it?
So while I might support the FairTax, (assuming it does indeed allows Joe Sixpack to come out ahead) I suspect that the situation we're facing is a lot like the one Vernon Smith encountered: even though the FairTax *might* encourage the politicians to "tax and spend" more wisely, (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here) there are too many people who benefit from the current system for it to change.
If you believe you're doing right, though, my hat's off to you. The biggest problem I see with the present system is that too many people know they are doing wrong, yet refuse to change their behaviour simply because they can privatize the profits they make whilst socializing the risks they create (i.e. you and I get to pick up the tab for the reckeless/stupid acts of others). | |
| reply to Lumberjack
Re: FairTax Calculator is a crock -- look what it forgot Fairtax calculation my butt. Do you gullible fools notice what the hell is missing?
Try opening your eyes to this farce. Fairtax is a crock, a total absolute crock. ITs wacked out nonsense. Its like those little stupid pills they used to sell to suckers, that supposedly let them use water in their gas tank.
Yes - its that stupid.
And this calculator shows exactly what I mean.
Notice -- it doesnt ask how much rent you pay. Wanna know why? Rent is taxed.
Notice -- it doesnt ask hom much car insurance you pay. Wanna know why? All insurance premiums are taxed.
That means car insurance, health insurance, life insurance, all taxed at least 30% (It would be more like 60%, but lets pretend its 30%)
Notice it doesn't as how much medical cost you have. Wanna know why? All medical cost -- repeat -- ALL -- medical cost are taxed.
Gotta get cancer surgery and chemo? You could EASILY get a 50,000 TAX. Have your grandma in a nursing home? Thats taxed too - up to 30,000 tax a year.
Funny how they forgot to include those thing -- huh?
YOu think its a co-incidence they didn't include any of those things?
Fairtax is a crock. Most people would pay far MORE tax - especially if you have any medical costs at all.
Sure -- you get your whole paycheck and even a prebate (so they say) But how the hell are the parents of a child with leukemia gonna pay these goons 70,000 in SALES tax?
Funny how they don't mention that.
Fairtax wont work -- for a lot of reasons. Look at fairtaxabsurdity at blogspot dot com. Or any of the other sites that are calling this goofy idea out, exposing it as a complete and utter farce.
Yes, I should be more diplomatic. You might have been suckered into this nonsense, and get mad at me for exposing it. Well too bad. You should be mad at the con artist and goof balls that sold you this nutty wacked out idea. | |
| reply to Lumberjack
Re: FairTax Calculator Fairtax calculation my butt. Do you gullible fools notice what the hell is missing?
Try opening your eyes to this farce. Fairtax is a crock, a total absolute crock. ITs wacked out nonsense. Its like those little stupid pills they used to sell to suckers, that supposedly let them use water in their gas tank.
Yes - its that stupid.
And this calculator shows exactly what I mean.
Notice -- it doesnt ask how much rent you pay. Wanna know why? Rent is taxed.
Notice -- it doesnt ask hom much car insurance you pay. Wanna know why? All insurance premiums are taxed.
That means car insurance, health insurance, life insurance, all taxed at least 30% (It would be more like 60%, but lets pretend its 30%)
Notice it doesn't as how much medical cost you have. Wanna know why? All medical cost -- repeat -- ALL -- medical cost are taxed.
Gotta get cancer surgery and chemo? You could EASILY get a 50,000 TAX. Have your grandma in a nursing home? Thats taxed too - up to 30,000 tax a year.
Funny how they forgot to include those thing -- huh?
YOu think its a co-incidence they didn't include any of those things?
Fairtax is a crock. Most people would pay far MORE tax - especially if you have any medical costs at all.
Sure -- you get your whole paycheck and even a prebate (so they say) But how the hell are the parents of a child with leukemia gonna pay these goons 70,000 in SALES tax?
Funny how they don't mention that.
Fairtax wont work -- for a lot of reasons. Look at fairtaxabsurdity at blogspot dot com. Or any of the other sites that are calling this goofy idea out, exposing it as a complete and utter farce.
Yes, I should be more diplomatic. You might have been suckered into this nonsense, and get mad at me for exposing it. Well too bad. You should be mad at the con artist and goof balls that sold you this nutty wacked out idea. | |
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