Neoprimal
join:2002-09-13
Hollywood, FL
1 edit | Is BitTorrent killing my AT&T DSL?
I've had Comcast cable since 2005. I just moved back to FL and had to get DSL from ATT(Bellsouth). I have the max resid. package which is 6 down 512 up.
I CANNOT get the modem + router to download torrents and do anything else on my connection at the same time. The speed doesn't even matter, I could be dling at 3k and it throttles my entire connection. My router is a wrt54g v. 3 Linksys with the newest FW. On comcast things were perfect but as soon as I've switched over to PPPoE I seem to have issues. I don't know if it's because of the router or the DSL Modem. The DSL modem is a Motorola(Netopia) 2210.
I've tried these so far:
1. Having the router pull everything auto from the modem in dhcp mode. By this I mean I set the modem to Always on and have the router get an ip from it and use it that way. Works fine, but same issues with torrents. (This would be the closest config to cable that I've tried)
2. Bridge the dsl modem and set the router to PPPoE so that it handles everything the modem should. The only thing the modem SHOULD be doing is passing the dsl connection to my router, but I don't know the technical details. Alas, it doesn't work out this way either.
3. Flakey tricks. I've basically 'tricked' the modem into letting the router have the wan address...but this is stressful and takes ALOT of work. In this mode, I reset the dsl modem and left the router to auto detect dhcp. 1 in maybe 5 times, it would get all the info from the modem (including the proper wan address, normally dhcp pulls from a pool of numbers in the modem), but in this case it 'steals' the wan address, as if it were in pppoe mode, but is'nt. This mode works perfectly but it reality the modem isn't 'setup' so it doesn't autoupdate or anything. Torrents work fine like this...go figure. It's very hard as I mentioned to recreate the effect, so I don't want to do this - as a simple router/modem reset means doing this 30 minute process all over again.
Any help would be appreciated with figuring this out.
I depend heavily on my home network...I have VoIP, Tivo, a lappy and another PC that I need to connect reliably.
Never thought I'd say this but boy do I miss my comcast cable!
Edit: I forgot to mention that the DSL is stable when using just the modem. Bittorrents go mega slow, but at least I can also surf. I may end up buying a new dsl modem. |
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jimkyle
Btrieve Guy
Premium
join:2002-10-20
Oklahoma City, OK
 ·AT&T Southwest
| said by Neoprimal  :Edit: I forgot to mention that the DSL is stable when using just the modem. Bittorrents go mega slow, but at least I can also surf. I may end up buying a new dsl modem. If taking the router out of the circuit makes it work just fine, you don't need a new modem. What you need is a new router, preferably from some other vendor.
However before doing that you might try using some of the free third-party firmware, such as DD-WRT or Tomato, in your WRT54G instead of the "latest firmware" from Linksys. Your problem is a common one over on the Linksys forum and may well be due to a very limited connection stack in the Linksys firmware, which might be cured by going to one of the alternate builds.
Since I don't do torrents at all I have no personal knowledge of this -- but I'm certain that when taking a single component out of the circuit makes it work right, that component and no other is the cause of the problem.
--
Jim Kyle |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| reply to Neoprimal
The 2210 modem you are issued in the AT&T Southeast region (formerly BellSouth) has slightly different firmware than the one AT&T issues here so there might be a problem getting good advice on the configuration settings to use with a router here.
I do know that our tests on our version of the 2210 modem seem to indicate that it doesn't have ACK prioritization. This means that if you are filling your upload stream with Bittorrents, you will choke your download to about the same speed as the upload side. I'm pretty sure that if our 2210 modem are made this way that the 2210 modems in the Bellsouth region will be too!
Maybe we should get a mod to move your part of this thread to the AT&T Southeast region so you can get better help. |
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Neoprimal
join:2002-09-13
Hollywood, FL
1 edit | reply to Neoprimal
jim,
I figure if the router worked just fine with my comcast cable modem, it should work fine with the dsl modem, but I could be wrong. The ONLY difference right now is that I'm using DSL and thus PPPoE vs. Cable which was Auto DHCP, but that could be the issue right there, who knows? Either way,
I don't see why it'd work perfectly with one and not the other though, so I logic'ed it out and decided the dsl modem MUST be the culprit. Similar but different than your own conclusion. Technically, I COULD just replace the router, but then if I still have the issue I'd have to replace the dsl modem then, so to cut out that possibility, I'll just get a new dsl modem with a built in router. 2 birds with one stone.
d_l,
This is what I'm thinking. The modem either is missing something the cable modem had, or has something extra that the cable modem didn't. Either way, it doesn't allow big chunks to be downloaded smoothly when it comes to torrents. I limit my upload to 10k total and 1k per connection, so it's not a dl/upload choke - plus, I only DL 1-2 things at a time and my DL is limited to 500kb total. Both set rates are way below my max rates. On my comcast cable, I'd throw 5+ dls at once and be completely A-OK with all of them hammering away at 400-700. My rated comcast speed was 8mb down but I swear to you almost every speed test rated my connection at over 16mb...sigh...
Anyhoo, after I install my new modem/router tomorrow I'll update.
UPDATE:
I purchased a Zoom ADSL X6 and it's working the exact same way as the linksys+motorola DSL bridge, so it's not the fault of the hardware. I'm guessing the throttling down when using bittorrent is an ATT 'feature' existing someplace on their servers.
I'm not going to return the new modem/router because it's handy having 1 device do it all. It's been up for a while and working well. There's one issue and that is the little 'internet' light that is SUPPOSED to be solid isn't....checking inside the logs I'm also getting CRC and HEC errors...4/2 respectively over abut 2 hrs. Whether or not that's a 'factor' in the performance of my connection I don't know. The DSL 24/7 service center is closed, lol - go figure. It could also be the line in the office, we just moved here, so I'll try them all eventually and see what the result is.
If anyone knows the DETAILED DSL config for ATT DSL here in Ft. Laud/Miami please let me know. The DAL autodetected these settings:
ADSL Configuration
Item: Value
BitSwap: Disable
BitSwapUp: Disable
Standard: ADSL2PlusAuto
EC/FDM Mode: EC
Activate Line: None
Thanks.
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gsdfjgnfjsdg
| reply to Neoprimal
What client do you use? Have your forwarded appropriate ports for torrent use? |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS | reply to Neoprimal
Have you tried lowering your upload speed when torrenting? Try lowering the upload speed to around 50% of your max upload speed and see if that helps. If that works, increase it until you notice the problems happening again. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to Neoprimal
said by Neoprimal :I'm guessing the throttling down when using bittorrent is an ATT 'feature' existing someplace on their servers. If it is anything at all AT&T, it is happening on 'bellsouth.net' transit routers. I don't see anything like it on the 'sbcglobal.net' transit routers in the AT&T West region.
There's one issue and that is the little 'internet' light that is SUPPOSED to be solid isn't....checking inside the logs I'm also getting CRC and HEC errors...4/2 respectively over abut 2 hrs. Whether or not that's a 'factor' in the performance of my connection I don't know.
I am showing 4205 CRC errors in seven days of modem uptime. Maybe you are having a line issue?
None of that last matches anything in my SpeedStream 4100 modem. Of course, they do some things different in AT&T West than in AT&T Southeast. |
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Neoprimal
join:2002-09-13
Hollywood, FL
| reply to Neoprimal
Thanks for the responses.
To answer all your questions...
I've NEVER been liberal with torrents on my new DSL. My upload is set to a universal 10kb rate and my peer upload is set to 1kb per peer. That's way, WAY below line speed.
Downloads are also tight, I've set it to 600 down max and I never run more than 2 at a time.
I've forwarded all ports etc. The speed isn't the problem, I get great speeds but it's the fact that as soon as I start downloading torrents everything else is throttled down. For instance, even if I'm getting something at say 10-100 down and 5 up, it takes a web page a lifetime to load.
This is in contrast to downloading from say, microsoft or any http/ftp and maxing out at 5000+ (for instance, 700+ on 4 files, 500 on another 3 or so) and STILL being able to surf perfectly.
I use the Bitcomet client, it's what I've been using for 2+ years and I've found it works best for me, perhaps a change is in order?
As for lowering my upload speed, I can't - bitcomet allows 10kb minimum as a universal rate, but as I've mentioned I've limited peers to downloading at 1kb from me - this in turn means I get a MAX limit of 10 peers downloading from me, but it generally works out to be 3 or 4 downloading from me at any one point in time.
By ATT I meant bellsouth, as I know they recently merged. I figured it wouldnt be ATT in 'general' since it doesn't seem to be a prevalent or widely publicized issue.
I didnt realize CRC and HEC errors were 'common' so I was just wondering if that was a really bad thing. Remember, I AM pretty rusty on DSL  . My last DSL line was in 2004 from bellsouth, 1.5 down on a white Westell Modem. So far I'm showing 2 CRC errors only in 17 hrs of uptime now.
Any info on the adsl settings? The Bitswap stuff?
Thanks again for the responses. |
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dsfsdgdfg
| reply to Neoprimal
Do you have a version of Bitcomet with DHT? If so I would recommend disabling DHT and give that a whirl. If that doesn't make a difference try another client. Utorrent would be a good idea. |
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cokesat
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Cleveland, TN | I have the same setup has you with no issue on Utorrent
It may be a firewall issue check your Window firewall settings
or your Anti-virus settings.
good luck |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to Neoprimal
I didn't read the thread. Take my post FWIW but I can almost assure you my settings will work.. I would not limit each peer to 1k upload I would just set the global upload to 10kbps.
Install the firmware of »www.dd-wrt.com on your router. There is a option for max connections. Increase this to 1024. Also enable uPnP in the router. Make sure the modem is in bridge mode and the router is doing PPPoE.
Next use the bit torrent client of »www.utorrent.com when you load for the first time it will give you some options. Check enable encryption and set the speed settings to what you desire.
This works perfect for me and it should for you as well.
--
Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir |
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joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to Neoprimal
Also check your line statistics: »AT&T Southeast Forum FAQ »How do I check modem stats & event logs? What do the numbers mean?
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Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir |
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Neoprimal
join:2002-09-13
Hollywood, FL
| reply to Neoprimal
Thanks much for the replies. Yes, my bitcomet does use DHT. I have switched from bitcomet to utorrent and so far so good. Firewall has been checked and I have 'holes' set up at specific port numbers that I monitor manually. My AV doesn't block ports.
As for DD WRT, I just put that on my router. I got a new zoom router+adsl so the router software wasn't the issue, as I had the same problems in the new router....or hey, maybe both their software sucks, whichever way I think I'm ok now.
The problem was something in bitcomet, perhaps 'flooding' or triggering something on the bellsouth routers. Right now I seem to be operating fine. I have some internal issues...like SLOW speeds starting up, but that's probably due to me setting up WDS on my wireless routers - too lazy to run wires.
Thanks for your help!
P.S, thanks for the line statistics reference, always wanted to know what all that meant. My attenuation is 12db which is good. |
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NeoGeo64
Premium
join:2001-09-22
Leesburg, GA
| I don't know if this helps but...
1) BitTorrent is very slow. It should be renamed BitTrickle.
2) BitTorrent uses a fair chunk of CPU power.
3) Uploading anything on ADSL will have a negative impact on your downstream speed. If you're using your entire upload speed (~55k for Xtreme) your download speeds will crawl. I don't know why, but that's just the way ADSL is. |
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by NeoGeo64 :Uploading anything on ADSL will have a negative impact on your downstream speed. If you're using your entire upload speed (~55k for Xtreme) your download speeds will crawl. I don't know why, but that's just the way ADSL is. That isn't ADSL, but TCP. you saturate your upload, and your outbound ACK packets have to contend with your uploaded data to get out.
I have saturated my upload with a SpeedStream 4100 DSL modem without that problem. The SS4100 reportedly has ACK prioritization enabled...
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Canada
 ·Shaw
 ·Novus Entertainmen..
| said by NormanS :That isn't ADSL, but TCP. you saturate your upload, and your outbound ACK packets have to contend with your uploaded data to get out. Don't forget that PPPoE has higher overhead than Bridged ADSL or DOCSIS.
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Xenophase - Vancouver's premier online gaming community. |
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Le Roy
Skillz
Premium
join:2002-05-03
Biloxi, MS
·AT&T Southeast
·CableOne
| reply to Neoprimal
That is odd. I used to have BellSouth's 1.5M connection back in early 2000 till I forget when, few years or so.
One thing I liked about my DSL connection was the fact that I could peg both upload and download simultaneously, without problems. One reason why I disliked Cable. Seems when I would be uploading something, it would hurt my download all the time.
DSL runs on two lines (a pair) where as cable is just one single copper wire. How can your download be effected by your upload, when you have two wires?
--
Redlined.org
Mississippi Gulf Coast Car Enthusiasts Forums
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NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
2 edits | reply to pfak
said by pfak :Don't forget that PPPoE has higher overhead than Bridged ADSL or DOCSIS. Which has what affect on upload saturation? I have 512kbps up. Due to overhead, my actual upload is only ~425kbps. So all that overhead does is lower my threshold to upload saturation. Once I am saturated, outbound ACK packets contend with outbound data packets (delaying ACK responses dogs web surfing), unless some kind of outbound ACK packet prioritization is taking place.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
Murfreesboro, TN
 ·Vonage
·AT&T Southeast
 ·Cingular Wireless
·AT&T CallVantage
| reply to Le Roy
said by Le Roy :DSL runs on two lines (a pair) where as cable is just one single copper wire. How can your download be effected by your upload, when you have two wires? Did you just forget to attach a smiley to that statement, or is that a serious question? 
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
Test your firewall. |
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