astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
·AT&T DSL Service
·AT&T Yahoo
|  ATT Overselling and here is how it affects you
Ok, how many of you have any of the following..
1) unable to get an IP from PPoE server
2) bad routing (overlooaded redbacks)
3) brownouts
4) terrible peering.
Well in our area, it appears we are oversold. The techs can not install gear fast enough to keep up, and after comcast in the area went to faster speeds and att has the 6mb option, lots of stuff is busted. This is strait from the mouth of a couple techs who work at ATT.
Also, it is ATT policy to call a 2.5mb line a 3mb. They say that the extra .5 is lost on overhead. So they claim it takes 1/6 of the line for the overhead? C'mon ATT, tell the truth, we know tcp/ip in these parts... |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV | Apparently you think you know tcp/ip, but you don't know all the components of the overhead. Have you ever heard about the ATM transport portion of the overhead? |
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astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA |  Sure do. your not gonna try to cover for them and say 2.5 is 3mb are you? Must be from ATT.
Are you claiming ATM overhead is 1/6th of your bandwidth? You better go study up before you try to debunk. lol |
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dslisfine
@sbcglobal.net
| Cell tax is typically 10%-15%, nothing you can do about that as long as your carrier is ATM based, as DSL is.
Of course one has to wonder exactly how you are determining your bandwidth. No test is very accurate, there are NO end to end bandwidth guarantees, this is the Internet after all.
I'm sure you know this already. |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
moderated:
December 29th, @09:34PM
| reply to astevens
There is almost 16% in encapsulation overhead in ATM, Ethernet and PPPoE which eats up 1/6 of the raw bitrate. If you truly had a clue you would not make such an ass of yourself.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·AT&T DSL Service
·AT&T Yahoo
| I agree with you. You are the Toolmaster. lol. Seriously i see your gripe, but hear mine out too.
If they use a transport system that by default strips 16% then they should call it that. IF their is no chance in hell of a 3mb pipe being 3mb, then sell it at 2.5.
Why is it that cable says 5mb and you get 5mb? yes you can say they dont have the atm overhead etc, but then again, why should we as users take the cut in speed for the hardware chosen by the telco?
The overhead for providing the service should be eaten by the telco, ones getting paid to deliver this busted off service.
Just got a cable modem, it is faster than sold. Now that is refreshing. Not the ATT comment '3mb service means up to 3mb, but we have never seen anyone hit 3mb due to overhead'. Sell what it is, not what it is + overhead.
Thats like the 17 inch monitors that were 16 inch. It is simply the wrong way to do it and it will backfire. |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
moderated:
December 29th, @09:34PM
| Cable here says six and gives four. And costs twice as much.
Why do you care since you are obviously in love with cable? Just move on.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·AT&T DSL Service
·AT&T Yahoo
| It is about principle. Consumer advocacy. Why are you so worried? 
I'll keep them both because all honestly, like you say apples and oranges, both have their shares of problems at timesd and hopefully it won't be at the same time.
Happy New Year... |
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r81984
Tough to beat.
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Morgan City, LA
 ·Cox HSI
·Insight Communicat..
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to astevens
Do you have proof of the these problems?
1) unable to get an IP from PPoE server
2) bad routing (overlooaded redbacks)
3) brownouts
4) terrible peering.
I never heard of people not being able to get an ip.
I have ATT dsl for 6 years, I have never had any of the problems you speak of.
--
»www.ryanoneill.us |
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astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·AT&T DSL Service
·AT&T Yahoo
|  Yes I have proof. You can call the district manager for my area (Central Valley, they are in Modesto). If it were not for Warren the DM stepping in and helping me get the ISP side to fix their issues, I would still be down. warren Rocks! Also a big thanks to Lisa at the San Ramon office for prooving supervisors can get stuff done. You can also call the ISP side in San Ramon and ask them to verify the health of your router for you. Dion in that office was very helpful helping me escalate. Once we got router techs online, we were able to determine I was totally saturated and moved me to a cleaner router.
What is happening is the areas is too big for the NOC. See we route everyone from Merced to Stockton (including modesto, turlock, oakdale, and even yosemite national park) out the single noc, Stockton). Yep, it's all out the same pipe over there, and now we have 6mb feeds in our area to compete with comcast, the network is having a lot of issues. Most of the techs who come out blame the new faster speeds and lack of build out for it all. They are building out uverse, but us copper customers are all on the old exhausted red backs. You should not have a 180-340ms lag in your first hop on a traceroute.
So what happens is the routers are all exhausted (verified with ATT NOC in San Ramon) so we had to dig around and finally found the lowest one and it was still 50% load durring non peak daytime.
The Brownouts are due to routers being loaded at over 90% (verify with san ramon again if you do not believe me).
The PPPoE servers only do this in our area. They usually catch up, but their are pek times (nights, weekends, holidays that if you reboot your router, you will be waiting for an IP. The error message was verified that that is indeed what it means. Again, call the local DM if you do not believe me.
I have DSL lines in ATT country in areas like Walnut Creek and they fly, maybe 1 downtime in 3 years, however in Turlock, it is etrotious.
After spending several days working with the DM and the slow to moove NOC in San Ramon, my system has been stabilized, but we had to move me to a diff dslam, and we had to change my routing.
It is sad to see our area so busted off. But please contact me privately as I do not want to post private numbers but I have router info for this area that will make you cry. I can also put you through to our managers that can verify all my problems existed.
This is what is so upsetting to me, they lied about the exhausted routers until I had their own techs pull up the saturation and it was over 90%! Even now, i'm on the 'clean redback' it is still around 1/3 the performance of cable.
With these major telco's, just because one area is great, does not mean another will suffer. I suggest working with your DM or if you can't go to bbb.org and file a coplaint for delivery of service, that usually escalates stuff too. Has worked with ATT, Covad, XO, and others. Yes I help people get buggy lines back up often.
Anyone is welcome to contact me if they want a second opinion or they need help tracking down the right contacts. If we all work togeather, we will make them fix what they have sold to us. |
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r81984
Tough to beat.
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Morgan City, LA
·Cox HSI
·Insight Communicat..
·AT&T Midwest
| Damn, that is terrible.
I always thought they had rules against overselling for DSL.
I remember in my area the techs on dslreports would say to never cancel your service or you will be on a wait list to get back on as the CO was maxed out.
One would think that a company like ATT would have good communication between departments so problems like this do not occur. They are a telecommunications company.
--
»www.ryanoneill.us |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
moderated:
December 29th, @09:35PM
| They aren't "overselling" like he tries to allege.
Equipment problems and even (gasp!) usage spikes happen to everyone. The fact that you might be locked out if you cancel service just points to how popular it is and how few people leave because of these phantom issues.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·AT&T DSL Service
·AT&T Yahoo
moderated:
December 29th, @09:35PM
| said by RadioDoc  :They aren't "overselling" like he tries to allege. Equipment problems and even (gasp!) usage spikes happen to everyone. The fact that you might be locked out if you cancel service just points to how popular it is and how few people leave because of these phantom issues. They are too overselling. When users can not obtain what they were sold due to exhausted routers, overloaded vlans, overloaded dns, etc.
RadioDoc, call our local ATT office and quite lieing. Your flaming for no reason because you can not take the fact you guys are screwing up. Deal with the truth even if it hurts.
People do leave. Call and ask for exit stats for ATT DSL in Turlock CA. You will see it has plumeted while cable installs continually rise. Numbers do not lie.
Deal with the facts RadioDoc. This is not a flame forum. Further personal attacks will be reported. |
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r81984
Tough to beat.
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Morgan City, LA
·Cox HSI
·Insight Communicat..
·AT&T Midwest
edit:
December 29th, @07:42PM
| RadioDoc is much more credible then you.
Anyways you admit this problem is only in your area, so many posting in your region's ATT forum would make more sense.
--
»www.ryanoneill.us |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
moderated:
December 29th, @09:36PM
| reply to astevens
I am certainly not one of "you guys" and you may feel free to report me all you wish. The admins and I are on intimate terms. Very intimate terms. Knock yourself out...I really don't care what you do.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·AT&T DSL Service
·AT&T Yahoo
| You are denying something I have the contacts at ATT to proove. So stop flaming.
Big deal if you know who runs the site, if they want to let their friends violate TOS thats up to them, I am not getting into a flamewar with a looser who can not take the truth about ATT overselling.
If it is prooven in this area, count on it to be this way in other areas.
If you want to talk to the people at ATT, contact me privately as I wont post direct extensions publicly.
Do you have any proof to show I am wrong or just your flaming because you work as a line tech or something? If you have any juice, call up ATT in Modesto CA, it is the area office for the region. Ask about the exhausted routers. I only wish I were making this up, lol.
Again, contact my area manager since you are a ATT guy it seems, and let me know if you need his employee #. Lets hammer these facts out.
If your ATT, you need to know about whats going on here since it sounds like it is not that way in your area. |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Carry on then. You have zero credibility moaning about being flamed at and then accusing me (and others) of being ATT employees, which is the lamest of flaming techniques. Nobody here cares what you think, and you're in a dead-end forum anyway.
Try this instead: »AT&T West
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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astevens
Premium
join:2007-12-19
Turlock, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·AT&T DSL Service
·AT&T Yahoo
|  I have mailed you (via the DSL Reports site) the contact information for the managers at ATT who have been kind enough to help get my problems rectified.
Can't do anything more to prove my case than present the facts and allow you to cross ref my witnesses, who happen to be ATT managers.
So did my credibility go up? Lol
If anyone else needs ATT contacts to verify this, msg me. Otherwise this discussion is over.
Happ New Year everyone! |
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