KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to devnuller
Re: Give Me A Break
$100 a meg. Why do I find that number to be way, way off. |
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devnuller
join:2006-06-10
Hollis, NH
| said by KrK  :$100 a meg. Why do I find that number to be way, way off. Because you have not had to buy commercial bandwidth before. That number is what you would expect to pay AT&T, Level3, etc if you purchased bandwidth in the 10Mbps range. You see the $300 for a T1 ads on this site all the time. That price is more like $200 / Mbps. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Nope. Those prices are for the T-1 connection. What does the actual BANDWIDTH cost.
I'm positive it's not $100 a meg. |
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devnuller
join:2006-06-10
Hollis, NH
| said by KrK :I'm positive it's not $100 a meg. Based on what? I just quoted you volume based sources and prices. What do you think the difference is between a T1 and a clocked down Ethernet connection is?
Not sure I can answer the question to your satisfaction as your uninformed, yet preconceived number is something that is unrealistic. Please provide some actual information that you have on real world wholesale ISP pricing based on volume commitments and location. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Your number is simply INSANE. I am positive you're talking about the PIPE not the USAGE.
If we take your argument that 1MB costs $100, that means if you download say SP2 that you just cost your ISP $4k. There's no way.
Bandwidth is cheap. |
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devnuller
join:2006-06-10
Hollis, NH
2 edits | said by KrK :Your number is simply INSANE. I am positive you're talking about the PIPE not the USAGE. If we take your argument that 1MB costs $100, that means if you download say SP2 that you just cost your ISP $4k. There's no way. Bandwidth is cheap. You are making a lot of statements, but you really don't have any idea on how bandwidth is priced. It is usage, but not the way you think.
Wholesale bandwidth costs are billed on 95%ile peak usage. The usage is sampled every 5 min over the course of a month and the top 5% of samples are thrown away.
Example: Say you have a 6Mb pipe and are a heavy to average user. You can use the full 6Mb when needed to download SP2, email, gaming, occasional BT, web surf, etc. When your usage is plotted out over the month your 95%ile peak will be probably around 100K. This bandwidth cost is about $10 at $100/Mb. This is just the ISP costs and not the CRAN, CMTS, backbone, provisioning systems, email systems, etc.
Example2: You are a user that runs heavy P2P hosting with a multi-terabit drive array. You download more DVD videos, games, music, etc. than you can use and share them with the Internet at large. You sustain the 6Mb peak usage for more that 5% of the month (1.5days in total). This actually costs the ISP $120 / month at $20/Mb. This bandwidth costs is on top of all the other costs to support your connection. The $20 number is because the ISP buys connections at 10's of thousands of Mb. If you alone were to get a 6Mb service from an AT&T or Level3 in a carrier facility you WOULD pay close to $100/Mb and Example2 would be close to $600/month. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | You're still talking about charging based of line capacity, however, not what transferring 1meg actually costs. And even $20 a meg is way, way too much. |
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devnuller
join:2006-06-10
Hollis, NH
1 edit | "Meg transfered" is not what dictates the cost of a network. An analogy would be how wide you build a highway. You don't build it for how many cars pass over it a day, you build it for how many at rush hour.
300Gb at 1Meg / second cost less than 300Gb at 6 Meg / second for 1/6th of the time. One has to build the infrastructure and pay the costs to sustain the 6Mb. Networks are built for peek usage, not total consumption. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Then there's no problem, as there's no need to go to pay-by-byte billing. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | There is a relationship between peak traffic and traffic, especially on the local level. |
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devnuller
join:2006-06-10
Hollis, NH
1 edit | reply to KrK
 I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old. Some concepts like this may be to advanced for Krk to understand. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
2 edits | said by devnuller :
I feel like I am talking to a 3 year old. Some concepts like this may be to advanced for Krk to understand. While I wouldn't care to speculate which is the case, if either, keep in mind that it is as likely, if not more likely, for someone to deliberately refuse to acknowledge something than to not understand it. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to devnuller
Yeah, yeah. When you fail to support your allegations, just result to insults.
Sorry, but your claims of $100 a meg are proven hogwash. Even your concession of maybe $20 a meg is still completely off, and you know it. Under your pricing, every ISP, even dialup, would of been bankrupted long ago.
So throw out some more insults, I don't care. Just admit it, you have no idea what it really costs to transfer a meg of traffic... but I'm sure you'll insist otherwise.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to bicker
This whole topic has been derailed. Care to offer evidence of what a 1MB file actually costs an ISP? |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | If you want to argue with me, at least argue against something I actually said. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | I'm not interested in arguing with anyone over more off-topic issues. People keep trying to compare Apples and Oranges here, and then insist that's why the results end up with Watermelons. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Sounds to me that you're unhappy you're not getting an unrebutted soap-box to project your own perspective. If you really want that, you really want to get a blog; it's not what a discussion forum is for. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
1 edit |
Sounds to me like you just always want to get in that one last shot, no matter what it's about. I forgive you though, you can't help it. Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.
2 thumbs up! |
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elvey
Spamassassin
join:2001-02-17
San Francisco, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
1 edit | reply to KrK
Remedial unit information.
Mbps != MB != MBps.
Mbps is megabits per second. In the current context, $100 / Mbps means a basic 10Mbps Ethernet connection would run $1000/month.
Over a month, this could transfer »www.google.com/search?&q=10Mbps%···%20month 3 TB of data. Google is your friend; it understands these units; use it if you don't.
--
AT&T is the world's second-largest SpamHaus and leads an
Organized Crime Syndicate. Also see TURN.org or UCAN. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
1 edit | This was my point all along with the comment about comparing apples to oranges. The thread started out at first talking about what the costs of traffic are. It was quickly derailed into what prices someone could in theory pay for some XX speed connection, which it was NEVER about.
So, the "current context" as you put it never was the issue, and no one ever explained why pay-per-byte processing was needed. Basically, nobody answered what it really costs to transfer a 1 meg file.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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