Topic 'Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable' in forum 'AT&T West' - dslreports.com

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:12:34 EDT

en102 posted :

said by NormanS:

Yeah, but how far are you from your DSLAM? It is the latency to the gateway router which is what I am looking at. My DSLAM is 9,156 out. I'd be curious to see the latency on a DSL line at 15,000 feet; especially if they were on the Fast data path.

According to AT&T techs, I'm at ~12,000', and I'm on fastpath 3008/512kbps (which they no longer offer for me).
--
Canada = Hollywood North

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:34:01 EDT

Selenia posted :

said by Packeteers:

ask any MMORPG player,
DSL lag beats Cable ;)

Alot of MMOs are somewhat lag tolerant but yes, you do notice. Mainly due to RTS congestion and not due to overall network latency. Alot of MMOs request opening connections on alot of ports.

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Tue, 01 Jan 2008 05:04:14 EDT

NormanS posted : Yeah, but how far are you from your DSLAM? It is the latency to the gateway router which is what I am looking at. My DSLAM is 9,156 out. I'd be curious to see the latency on a DSL line at 15,000 feet; especially if they were on the Fast data path.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:41:52 EDT

en102 posted : Some of that is due to location (i.e. San Jose to San Jose trace to yahoo.com)

L.A. to San Jose is a little farther

$ tracert www.yahoo.com Tracing route to www.yahoo-ht3.akadns.net [209.131.36.158]over a maximum of 30 hops:   1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.254.11   2    10 ms    10 ms     9 ms  netblock-68-183-52-1.dslextreme.com [68.183.52.1]   3    10 ms    10 ms    10 ms  LAX1.CR1.Gig6-0.dslextreme.com [66.51.199.133]   4    20 ms    20 ms    20 ms  netblock-66-51-198-182.dslextreme.com [66.51.198.182]   5    20 ms    20 ms    21 ms  PAT2.SJC.yahoo.com [206.223.116.16]   6    21 ms    20 ms    22 ms  g-1-0-0-p161.msr1.sp1.yahoo.com [216.115.107.63]   7    25 ms    22 ms    22 ms  te-8-1.bas-a2.sp1.yahoo.com [209.131.32.19]   8    22 ms    21 ms    21 ms  f1.www.vip.sp1.yahoo.com [209.131.36.158]  Trace complete.

--
Canada = Hollywood North

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:01:19 EDT

NormanS posted : This is what I see...

Ping statistics for 69.110.151.254:    Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:    Minimum = 10ms, Maximum = 14ms, Average = 11ms

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:38:41 EDT

pflog posted : Upstream sync rate on DSL results in marginally lower RTT pings to the POP. I think going from 384k upstream to 608k upstream, I saw a drop in GW ping from about 11-12ms to 7-8ms. Not a huge difference, that, but of note.

Also, in my experience, DSL pings are much more consistent and stable. Cable tends to fluctuate quite a bit, at least it has in areas I've had Cable. This, as I said, can definitely vary by Comcast market.

Here's the ping to my gateway on my parents' Comcast connection (which is actually very good):

Pinging 71.200.176.1 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=254
Reply from 71.200.176.1: bytes=32 time=7ms TTL=254

Ping statistics for 71.200.176.1:
Packets: Sent = 20, Received = 20, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 6ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 8ms

So it's 6-8ms most of the time, but with spikes to 10+ a few times (even 15). This is actually very good, I've seen it much more jittery. On DSL, though, when I'd ping my gateway, I'd see 10ms for every reply with a std deviation of less than 0.5ms. :)
--
Hello...is there anybody in there?

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:12:19 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by Selenia:

I would still go with dsl if you're close to the CO. Latency and loss increase with distance...

How close is "close"?

12/31/07 12:10:31 Slow traceroute www.yahoo.comTrace www.yahoo.com (209.131.36.158) ...192.168.102.1   RTT:   1ms TTL:170 (chihiro.aosake.net ok)192.168.0.1     RTT:   2ms TTL:170 (suzuka.aosake.net ok)69.110.151.254  RTT:  11ms TTL:170 (adsl-69-110-151-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ok)64.164.107.1    RTT:  11ms TTL:170 (No rDNS)151.164.93.231  RTT:  11ms TTL:170 (bb1-g15-0.pltnca.sbcglobal.net ok)151.164.191.201 RTT:  11ms TTL:170 (ex1-p9-0.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net ok)151.164.248.58  RTT:  12ms TTL:170 (asn10310-yahoo-10g.eqsjca.sbcglobal.net ok)216.115.107.83  RTT:  12ms TTL:170 (g-0-0-0-p171.msr2.sp1.yahoo.com ok)209.131.32.17   RTT:  12ms TTL:170 (te-8-1.bas-a1.sp1.yahoo.com ok)209.131.36.158  RTT:  12ms TTL: 55 (f1.www.vip.sp1.yahoo.com ok)

I am 9,156 feet from my DSLAM (which is in a CO; but DSLAMs can also be in RTs).

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:20:23 EDT

Packeteers posted : ask any MMORPG player,
DSL lag beats Cable ;)

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:19:25 EDT

JeepMatt posted : Or, you can be on fiber and be even better!!! :p

1 (192.168.1.1) 0.603 ms 0.181 ms 0.176 ms
2 l100.vfttp-21.phlapa.verizon-gni.net (72.78.x.x) 5.521 ms 4.911 ms 4.950 ms
3 p6-0.lcr-04.phlapa.verizon-gni.net (130.81.96.38) 4.993 ms 4.706 ms 5.084 ms
4 130.81.29.214 (130.81.29.214) 4.896 ms 3.882 ms 5.015 ms
5 0.so-6-0-0.xl2.phl6.alter.net (152.63.3.81) 4.948 ms 4.710 ms 4.993 ms
6 0.so-6-0-0.xl4.iad8.alter.net (152.63.0.130) 10.010 ms 9.627 ms 10.024 ms
7 0.ge-7-0-0.br2.iad8.alter.net (152.63.41.157) 9.937 ms 9.709 ms 9.963 ms
8 4.68.63.165 (4.68.63.165) 10.002 ms 8.757 ms 9.851 ms
9 ae-2-79.edge1.washington1.level3.net (4.68.17.80) 12.589 ms
10 ae-1-69.edge1.washington1.level3.net (4.68.17.16) 9.292 ms
11 ae-3-89.edge1.washington1.level3.net (4.68.17.144) 12.110 ms
12 google-inc.edge1.washington1.level3.net (4.79.231.6) 12.271 ms
13 64.233.175.171 (64.233.175.171) 12.548 ms
14 64.233.175.169 (64.233.175.169) 11.273 ms 11.368 ms
15 72.14.232.25 (72.14.232.25) 14.951 ms
16 72.14.232.21 (72.14.232.21) 13.915 ms 11.193 ms
17 yo-in-f103.google.com (64.233.169.103) 11.088 ms 12.250 ms 12.513 ms
--
"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!"

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 04:25:16 EDT

zed260 posted : i guess my latency is pretty good to the internet backbone im on cable

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 10.95.64.1
3 11 ms 9 ms 9 ms 71-80-70-62.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com [71.80.70.6
2]
4 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 24-159-64-49.static.jcsn.tn.charter.com [24.159.
64.49]
5 11 ms 11 ms 11 ms 64.200.71.13
6 23 ms 23 ms 21 ms 64.200.240.238
7 22 ms 23 ms 21 ms brvwil1wcx3-pos9-1-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.249.37]

8 22 ms 23 ms 23 ms 64.200.249.190
9 22 ms 24 ms 22 ms te-4-3-70.car2.Chicago1.Level3.net [4.68.110.33]

10 23 ms 23 ms 39 ms 4.79.66.30
11 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms 72.14.232.57
12 24 ms 23 ms 23 ms 72.14.232.53
13 38 ms 24 ms 23 ms py-in-f147.google.com [64.233.167.147]

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Mon, 31 Dec 2007 03:06:33 EDT

Selenia posted : Used to be dsl hands down. Rogers still sucked at last check, but Roadrunner's first hop latency is way down from what it used to be. It now ties or beats Verizon and Bell Sympatico at close distance. Seems they have upgraded certain things. However, that is cancelled out by currently crappy routing over tbone.rr.com. I would still go with dsl if you're close to the CO. Latency and loss increase with distance, but a close range dsl connection is hard to beat. You need to consider cable relies on an RTS(request to send) signal from the modem to what essentially amounts to hub-based topology. Only 1 modem may send an RTS and begin sending in a single cycle, This may make retransmissions high at peak time on apps like online games, which transmit at a constant slow speed and are ping dependent. Even though your network latency might be ok, cable may lag during these times, usually in very short bursts. DSL typically won't suffer from this.

Depending on what you do, this all may be negligible. You might just want to check for best price or best reputation for provider, if that's the case. Packet shaping, etc may have more effect on your overall experience(depending which apps you use) than a few ms of ping time will,

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Sun, 30 Dec 2007 18:11:01 EDT

NormanS posted : It takes away from the data speed (ATM+PPPoE overhead is roughly 15%), but not latency. The data path affects latency; being on the Fast data path is ideal. Interleaved will add to latency.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:59:19 EDT

Authority posted :

said by tonydi:

I don't think I've ever seen a Comcast (the only cable company in the Bay Area) line that had latency as low as a decent DSL line. It's usually not even close, like 9-10ms vs well over 20ms.

I thought the pppoe overhead made dsl inherently slower. Good to know - thanks!
--
"If the only tool you have is a hammer, then you tend to see every problem as a nail." -Abraham Maslow

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Sun, 30 Dec 2007 01:58:50 EDT

tonydi posted : I don't think I've ever seen a Comcast (the only cable company in the Bay Area) line that had latency as low as a decent DSL line. It's usually not even close, like 9-10ms vs well over 20ms.

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:16:41 EDT

d_l posted : Really I think this is typical for the first hop on an Elite line. The first hop gaps are alternating pings through my other Basic line.

Re: [Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:04:13 EDT

NormanS posted : It is all over the map for both. On average, cable is probably lower. But DSL on Fast data path can be lower than some cable systems I have seen.

Lowest cable latency to the first hop (past the CPE) I have seen is often 9-10ms.

I have seen a trace route, or two, for DSL users just as low; but typical first hop latency is 12-13ms for Fast data path. Being on the Interleaved data path on DSL can add 30ms to latency.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

[Home Network] latency / lag on DSL vs. cable

Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:25:00 EDT

Authority posted : Is lag and or latency identical on cable and dsl?