Re: Pyrrhic Defeat in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19736431 en Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:01:02 EDT Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:01:02 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19750321 THoff :
said by Wills See Profile :

Ralsky doesn't make money sending spam for Norton Antivirus, Norton does. That's who we should be going after.
Has it occurred to you that the spam you are getting that is advertising commercial software like Norton Antivirus may not be coming from Symantec or their respective publishers?

The vast majority of software pushed by spam is fake. If you are offered "OEM" software, a huge discount, software without physical media or a manual, non-upgradeable software etc., it's usually from a East European or Asian scammer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19750321 Sun, 06 Jan 2008 16:08:32 EDT But I don't drink coffee! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19742001 Noah Vail : AND I have 5 children.

I'm so confused. I need a hug.

Maybe not from my trophy wife, that'd just be like more coffee, or... No wait.

crap.

never mind.

NV
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My children used to Speak in Tongues. But after years of Speech Therapy, English is their First Language!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19742001 Sat, 05 Jan 2008 01:27:16 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737910 pnh102 :
said by N3OGH See Profile :

There, now I bet you HAVE to buy a cup of coffee!
We get free viagra coffee at work!
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737910 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:19:30 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737700 N3OGH : What makes Viagra Coffee the # 1 potency pill?

Viagra coffee ensures Better Performance, Improved Erection Quality and enhanced Hardness.
No tablet has been proven to work better or faster for ED than Viagra coffee.
Success rate is phenomenal: VIAGRA coffee works for 4 out of 5 men.
16 million men worldwide have chosen Viagra coffee to treat ED.
Every second 9 pills cups are bought.
Viagra coffee is so safe that it can be taken once daily.
Viagra is covered by more health plans than other oral ED treatments.
Buy Viagra coffee Now!

There, now I bet you HAVE to buy a cup of coffee!

taken from an actual piece of spam I got. They're definitely targeting the wrong guy. I have about an hour of morning wood a day, but I digress :)
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737700 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:42:26 EDT Postini http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737568 IT Guy : I am managing my company's mail servers as well. The company I decided to use to host our servers has the most awful spam gateway software (MailBox Cop by Roaring Penguin), what a God awful piece of crap! I had to manually approve or deny at least 2000 messages in an 8 hour period for roughly 150 accounts. As you can imagine, this was damn near an impossible feat while simultaneously performing my other job functions.

MailBox Cop, despite their promise of no false-positives, was so bad with rejecting valid emails and not creating an incident so that I could add the sender/domain as trusted, that our company may actually be fined some big dollars because an email never made it to the recipient. Why some people put so much trust in e-mail for time-sensitive, important matters is beyond me.

What I did was sign up for Postini's spam filtering service and it has been awesome! I haven't had 1 report of a false positive yet and it allows each individual account holder to take action on messages instead of me going through everyone's email. It's a bit pricey but well worth it. I out Google Apps as well, and if it weren't for the $12,000 annual price tag, I probably would have migrated to them.
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My time is a piece of wax, falling on a termite, that's choking on a splinter. --Beck]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737568 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:26:18 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737374 moonpuppy : I have been saying the same thing for years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737374 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:57:24 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737193 jvanbrecht : You appear to have some understanding of how spam works, but are incorrect in the assumption that it is all the fault of the products being advertised.

Here is the issue. Most companies offer an affiliate program, where by you sell the product, or get a user to connect to the products site (I am not talking advertising clickthru sites, more like, to use your example, www.symantec.com/blah/affiliate_id=34235 where the user with id 34235 gets a small chunk of change everytime someone clicks it and even more when a user purchases the product). Of course, this assumes that they (spammers/nefarious affiliate user) are selling legal versions, and not chinese fakes of the same product, which most spam does.

Now these affiliate programs are fine, if they are run correctly. In the past, atleast at UUNET (prior to MCI and Verizons involvement), we took down the spammer (if it originated from a UUNET pop, or notified the downstream customers if it was one of their users, if they do not respond, after numerous notifications and a discussion with UUNETs legal dep, that customer would have its line shut down, and yes, we did do it, even though it took a while sometimes). Additionally, we would go after the content of the email, sites advertised etc, and shut those down as well.

With regards to affiliate type deals, we notified the provider of that affiliate service (sometimes the vendor itself, sometimes third parties), and under ideal situations, they cancel that affiliates account and with hold any payments due to them. That worked great with larger companies, not so much with smaller ones who went from ISP to ISP after their accounts got canceled.

Basically, what it comes down to, the majority of spam now days seems to be hocking illegal pharmaceuticals, pirated software, fake products and porn. Now with porn, they actually do cancel affiliate accounts quickly for fear of losing their own access, which has happened, for the others, its illegal content in the first place, and going after Symantec for their spammed Norton AV which is probably a knock off in the first place will not resoilve the problem.

Spam is a complex problem, there is no simple solution... when you come up with a viable one, you will be rich, until then, just suck it up and do your part. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19737193 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:26:53 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736988 Dogfather : My business has. We've seen some of our largest customers like Alcoa go back to good old faxing and phone calls because of problems with email. Either their corporate filters filter too much or too little making email worthless. Or the filters remove needed attachments making faxing the better alternative.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736988 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:54:08 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736881 Nightfall :
said by mindfrost82 See Profile :

Spam and product emails are two different things IMO.

With your example of Norton, if an email comes from a company like that, there is usually a legit link to unsubscribe from the mailing list.

Before switching to Google Apps, I ran my company's email server and it was a full time job blocking spam. IMO, the worst spam (which makes up the majority of it), are emails like these stock emails, emails about replica watches, emails that don't make any sense, porn emails, etc.

If an email comes from a large company, they usually provide a way out of their mailing list, which usually works.
A full time job blocking spam? Thats nuts. We have postini here and it is IMHO the Cadillac of spam filtering. In over a year and a half of using it, we have had 5 reported false positives in the spam box. Whenever spam does sneak through, I am told about it and that only happened a couple times in the last year.

Sounds like the company you work for is a little cheap cause great services like postini are very inexpensive for the service they provide. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736881 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:36:14 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736770 n2jtx :
said by mindfrost82 See Profile :

Before switching to Google Apps, I ran my company's email server and it was a full time job blocking spam.
I still run my firms server and yes it is a pain. I was also running my own private email server to host my own personal domains and that too was becoming a full-time job. I finally shifted my MX records to a paid forwarding service that provides SPAM filtering. That service then forwards on to my GMail account that provides another layer of SPAM filtering. Since doing that, managing my personal email has become much easier. Corporate is still annoying but it is manageable, especially with a DeepSix anti-SPAM box in front of it all.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736770 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:17:04 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736712 rmdir : That's why if I work for Kapersky I'll be sending spam for Norton AV. It's much easier to fatally wound the competition that to make a better product. Plus when I get unsolicited e-mail (like the Circuit City cr** they send in addition to my monthly e-mailed bill) I'll make it a point to patronize their competitor to show my disapproval.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736712 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:07:03 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736671 MrMaster :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

For most people, spam has made email completely useless as a means of communication. Businesses have to invest significant amounts of money into blocking spam just so that email can function at all. I won't be surprised if many people simply stop using email altogether because of the volume of spam.

For me, it is about 99% of my personal email. I'm getting ready to just shut off the one email account altogether.

The "War on spam" is lost.
Since switching to gmail a few years ago I have had virtually no problems with spam. Even my rarely used hotmail account shows a significant drop in spam messages.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736671 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:01:43 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736668 pnh102 :
said by N10Cities See Profile :

Wills is saying go after the makers of the product that the spam is ADVERTISING....
I told you I need more coffee!
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736668 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 10:01:10 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736581 Nightfall :
said by Wills See Profile :

The war on spam is lost because it's being fought improperly. We aren't following the money and we aren't going after the head companies that are the end of the money train.

Ralsky doesn't make money sending spam for Norton Antivirus, Norton does. That's who we should be going after.

Just like every "War on X" the U.S. has waged, it will be a losing fight because we'll always do it wrong.
Good luck making that work. I can see a bunch of Microsoft haters spamming advertisements from some Chinese server just to get Microsoft fined. The problem here is the email system itself. It hasn't changed in years and is flawed. A new system must be developed and implemented. Whatever this new system is, it will have to be more restrictive.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736581 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:45:31 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736539 N10Cities : Wills is saying go after the makers of the product that the spam is ADVERTISING....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736539 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:37:27 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736496 pnh102 :
said by Wills See Profile :

Like I said, go after the companies that are the end of the money train.
Perhaps I am not understanding you. Are you suggesting that companies which make commercially available anti-spam solutions are part of the problem? Granted... I might need more coffee.
said by Wills See Profile :

THESE are the people we should be levying multimillion dollar fines and jail time at. Not people like Ralsky. Stop the companies doing this and there is no need for people like Ralsky.
Ralsky runs a huge business that makes its money by sending spam. He deserves to be taken down.
said by Wills See Profile :

Kill the head and the body dies.
Unfortunately, even if Ralksy is convicted and imprisoned, other spammers will quickly fill the void. I still believe that the volume of spam continues to increase because more people buy products and services that are spamvertised. Until everyone stops buying such products and services, we will never see an appreciable decrease in spam.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736496 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:28:44 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736465 pnh102 :
said by Mactron See Profile :

Must be a Yahoo e-mail account... ;)
Unfortunately this is a private email account with my own personal domain. My hosting company picks up about 90% of the spam and marks it as such. Maybe I can bug them to improve their filter. I'd rather they delete the spam before I have to deal with it.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736465 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:24:04 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736453 mindfrost82 : Spam and product emails are two different things IMO.

With your example of Norton, if an email comes from a company like that, there is usually a legit link to unsubscribe from the mailing list.

Before switching to Google Apps, I ran my company's email server and it was a full time job blocking spam. IMO, the worst spam (which makes up the majority of it), are emails like these stock emails, emails about replica watches, emails that don't make any sense, porn emails, etc.

If an email comes from a large company, they usually provide a way out of their mailing list, which usually works.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736453 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:21:47 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736450 Wills : Like I said, go after the companies that are the end of the money train.

Aside from phising, most spam is trying to sell you a product. Some company is benefitting from that and is the root cause of that.

THESE are the people we should be levying multimillion dollar fines and jail time at. Not people like Ralsky. Stop the companies doing this and there is no need for people like Ralsky.

Kill the head and the body dies.
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I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736450 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:21:32 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736438 jvanbrecht : I run my own mail, and while I agree, 99% of what I get is spam, I atleast know where they are getting my email addresses from. ps, I also used to work IT Security (which included spam and abuse) for UUNET (ages ago) and Roadrunner, so I understand the costs involved with dealing with the stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736438 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:19:42 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736434 Mactron :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

For me, it is about 99% of my personal email. I'm getting ready to just shut off the one email account altogether.

The "War on spam" is lost.
Must be a Yahoo e-mail account... ;)
Mine is sure worthless. :huh:

Hope they Nail this guys and all connected to, and like him. :D
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If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736434 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:19:28 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736431 pnh102 :
said by Wills See Profile :

The war on spam is lost because it's being fought improperly.
Aside from shooting people who spam as well as people who buy spamvertised products and services, what else can we do?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736431 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:18:43 EDT Re: Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736424 Wills : The war on spam is lost because it's being fought improperly. We aren't following the money and we aren't going after the head companies that are the end of the money train.

Ralsky doesn't make money sending spam for Norton Antivirus, Norton does. That's who we should be going after.

Just like every "War on X" the U.S. has waged, it will be a losing fight because we'll always do it wrong.
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I have a shaved head, a goatee, and tatoos. Don't you realize the rules don't apply to me. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736424 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:17:15 EDT Pyrrhic Defeat http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736410 pnh102 : For most people, spam has made email completely useless as a means of communication. Businesses have to invest significant amounts of money into blocking spam just so that email can function at all. I won't be surprised if many people simply stop using email altogether because of the volume of spam.

For me, it is about 99% of my personal email. I'm getting ready to just shut off the one email account altogether.

The "War on spam" is lost.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19736410 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:13:35 EDT