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gambothell
join:2006-02-26
Bothell, WA

gambothell

Member

What happened to the manuals

I was just curious if anyone else has seen this when purchasing a new computer. I just purchased an Acer M3100. I comes with a 500gb HD, 3gm DDR2 and a built in ATI X1250 graphics chipset on the motherboard. What blew me away was that there were no manuals that came with the desktop computer. I am used to getting a motherboard layout and BIOS manual. I emailed Acer and their reply was that they do not provide manuals to customers. Hello, how do I upgrade hardware if I do not know what kind of PCI Express slots I have or what kind of memory to purchase? I also checked Acer online and guess what, no manuals or technical details. When I went to purchase a real video card to replace the on board card, I had to view several retailers and sites like CNet to get the bare minimum specifications. I finally found out it has a PCI Express x 16.

I guess customer service is something that only Nordstrom understands. How much does it cost to put a manual on a CD or preloaded on the hard disk.

Are other manufacturers like HP, Dell, Gateway, etc. doing this now?

jouno53
Palin 2012
join:2006-03-04
United State

jouno53

Member

Wow, that's pretty bad on Acer's part. Thankfully you were able to figure out your motherboard's specs though.

I'm pretty sure HP and Dell still give manuals, (at least I know for sure they did in the past), because I have a Dell manual right in front of me.

Tursiops_G
Technoid
MVM
join:2002-02-06
Brooksville, FL

1 edit

Tursiops_G to gambothell

MVM

to gambothell
Did the PC come with any Setup/Driver CD-ROM disks?
Some PC Manufacturers provide the Manuals on the DRIVER CD (in Adobe .PDF format)...

-Tursiops_G.

gambothell
join:2006-02-26
Bothell, WA

gambothell

Member

No disks were included at all.

trparky
Premium Member
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
·AT&T U-Verse

1 edit

trparky to gambothell

Premium Member

to gambothell
I know that if you go to HP and lookup the model of the computer and go into the specifications you can see what kind of memory the computer takes, socket of the CPU, chipset, slots, etc.

For instance...
»www.shopping.hp.com/weba ··· en&cc=us

gambothell
join:2006-02-26
Bothell, WA

gambothell

Member

FYI, here is a copy of Acer's email reply for documentation:

"Thank you for contacting Acer America. We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry. Acer does not provide mainboard level support and does not provide mainboard manuals to endusers. I am sorry but I will be unable to assist you in this matter.

Respectfully,
Acer America
Online Support"

There was an Acer system user guide on the HD, but it was a generic user manual, suggesting things like not sticking the plug up your butt or sitting in water while changing your video card. I took a little liberty on the exact quote, but you get my drift. It had all the normal warnings, FCC compliance, how to clean and plug in the computer. All that important stuff. Missing were all the technical specifications of my particular model.

As you see, I am not a happy camper with their lack of documentation. What really gets under my skin is that there is no documentation even on the web about the motherboard which is a F690GVM with a BIOS date of 6-25-2007. They expect me to go back to Circuit City and get their assistance. The guy who I bought the system from knew very little about the system. I have a very solid hardware and software knowledge, thank you. Yes, I can figure it all out on my own, but I should not have to; and what about the guy who only has a limited knowledge? God help them if they have to rely on the retailer...

All in all, the computer for the price is great. Great performance and nice style. Too bad, the forgot the most important part - good documentation.

Siko
Premium Member
join:2006-11-27
Mechanicsburg, PA

1 edit

Siko to gambothell

Premium Member

to gambothell
I have an AcerT690 I got over the summer. I checked on their website and there was a manual there.
Every time I get a new computer I always open the case and check the motherboard to see what model is it from what make, etc. Then you just google that information and then you can get the specifications for the motherboard.

gambothell
join:2006-02-26
Bothell, WA

gambothell

Member

I suspect my model is too new. There is no manual other then the generic desktop manual for my model. Also, if you google my motherboard, there are no sites that have specs, only retailers and repair sites come up.

draconus333
@comcast.net

draconus333 to gambothell

Anon

to gambothell
I just got an acer, albeit a lesser model, but with the same motherboard. I recently upgraded the RAM on the computer, and it took me about a week to find which speed it supports. I tried to find some BIOS updates so that I could overclock it a bit, but I couldn't find BIOS updates at all, which I need to increase the CPU's core voltage. Definately not going to buy an acer again, unless they at least start to give some support.

aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA

aurgathor to gambothell

Member

to gambothell
While most of the information in the manuals is not really needed for people other than complete novices, a 2 - 3 page volume describing specs, memory type and speed, jumpers, connectors, etc. is needed.

Mellowllama
@bethere.co.uk

Mellowllama to gambothell

Anon

to gambothell
Hey guys and gals, it looks like i am in your boat too.
I got an Extensa E210 (mobo - F690GVM) from Acer over new year... Great price, no specs anywhere. Spent ages looking at the mobo & BIOS for clues and then googling model and serial numbers. If any of you would like to share your experience it would make my day.
I specifically want to know if it supports Ram at 2.1/2.3V, and its max speed - came with 667MHz, I think it supports 800MHz tho i don't know.
If I do ever find a spec sheet I will be sure to share it here.
Cheers

koma3504
Advocate
Premium Member
join:2004-06-22
Granbury, TX

koma3504 to gambothell

Premium Member

to gambothell
Save your self a headache and return it. And build your own.

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94 to gambothell

Premium Member

to gambothell
Yes, I would agree. If a manufacturer isn't and refuses to do things that they should involving a product, screw them, return it and buy something from someone that will, and be clear why.

This sounds very arrogant on the part of ACER, I think they have gotten too big for their britches, I am seen a number of complaints related to them lately.

googledmobo
@amtelecom.net

googledmobo

Anon

same problem, i was stoked getting a quad core amd for $700, let alone the 2gigs of ram and 500gb hardrive, but i have the same problem, no mobo manual, did a google search this thread popped up so I decided to reply and say, yes, fuck acer

deet
@ntl.com

deet to gambothell

Anon

to gambothell
Hi Gambothell i found using »www.crucial.com/uk/ gave me the info for upgrading memory and PCI Express x16.

if your computer is not listed, there is a system scanner. might be able to give you some info you need.

hope this helps
deet

deet to gambothell

Anon

to gambothell
sorry that message was ment for mellowllama

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94 to googledmobo

Premium Member

to googledmobo
Tone down the langauge, please. Family forum.

Pyrion
Liquid Metal Nanomorph
join:2001-12-01
Spirit Lake, ID

1 recommendation

Pyrion to gambothell

Member

to gambothell
said by gambothell:

I am used to getting a motherboard layout and BIOS manual. I emailed Acer and their reply was that they do not provide manuals to customers. Hello, how do I upgrade hardware if I do not know what kind of PCI Express slots I have or what kind of memory to purchase?
You bought an Acer.

Acer obviously thinks its customers are idiots. They don't expect you or any of their customers in general to know how to repair or upgrade a system, they expect you to trash the old system and buy a new one if something breaks.

Lemme guess, you bought it cuz it didn't cost much?

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to gambothell

to gambothell
Unlike Lenovo who not only give you full specs and manuals for download, they also tell you what you can and can't upgrade. And the Lenovo Care software downloads all upgrades like BIOS and new drivers.

Tommen
@bb.online.no

Tommen to gambothell

Anon

to gambothell
I have the same problem! I purchased an Acer M3100 AMD Athlon 64 4000+ before christmas, and I have a hard time finding out how fast CPU this motherboard support.Acer just told me to ask the store where I bought the computer for support? Make me wonder if it will be a Acer next time!

PeteC2
Got Mouse?
MVM
join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT

2 edits

PeteC2

MVM

Lots of Acer angst here!

No offense to anyone btw, but the tone and aggravation in this thread strikes me as a bit unrealistic?

OK, the OP bought an Acer, inquired about specific manuals, and they replied thusly:

"Thank you for contacting Acer America. We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry. Acer does not provide mainboard level support and does not provide mainboard manuals to endusers. I am sorry but I will be unable to assist you in this matter.

Respectfully,
Acer America
Online Support"


An honest enough response. If you want a detailed engine/mechanical manual on your 2008 Ford Explorer (or any other vehicle!), that you paid BIG bucks for...fuggedaboutit! You can buy a third party Chilton's manual for it...but Ford, or any other car maker ain't givin' 'ya one!

A couple of things strike me here:

First, almost nobody has been supplying motherboard-level support documentation for computers for quite some time now. Yes, you may get a few pages, with some tidbits of info, including how to upgrade memory, very basic "trouble-shooting" etc., but the days of fully documented manuals has long been gone. Frankly, the prices on new computers are dog-eat-dog, and even a couple of bucks here and there deliniate the winners from the losers...so that is why you get no full OS CD, or even recovery CDs anymore! That is a shame, but that is what the handful of surviving computer manufacturers have come to. Besides which, I can't say as I blame them, as it is an absolute fact that most folks never, ever, ever read even the sparse documentation that does come with these computers. The vast majority of the buying public has shown no inclination to read anything!

Second, for the handful of us who really do care about the workings, and specs on our computers...for the most part, this information is ridiculously easy to come by anyways!

Look, if someone can't pop the case open, and look at a DDR module to tell the specification, they probably don't need to be messing around with their computer open anyhow, yes? And oh, by the way, I remember the days when Gateway and others would actually put a seal over the back of the case, so that if you opened it up, other than a "qualified technician", the warranty was voided!

Of course, for the most part, and yes, some manufacturers are more user-friendly than others, you can find whatever you need to know on their web sites.

My HP notebook came with only the barest amount of info, but I have had absolutely no problem finding out all of the specifics that I wanted to know.

I have looked up info on some Acer products, and their web site is not the most user-friendly, but I always found what I was looking for in the end.

yoshirawr
@comcast.net

1 recommendation

yoshirawr

Anon

If that's the case, and you seem to be able to find what the rest of us can't, why did you not supply a link to a mobo diagram? I popped the box on mine today and in the process of trying to find schematics, found this thread of people with the exact same mobo.

There's NO reason the company can't include so much as a simple image diagram of the motherboard somewhere on the HD, or on their site, especially considering it seems they use the same mobo for everything they build.

PeteC2
Got Mouse?
MVM
join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT

PeteC2

MVM

said by yoshirawr :

If that's the case, and you seem to be able to find what the rest of us can't, why did you not supply a link to a mobo diagram? I popped the box on mine today and in the process of trying to find schematics, found this thread of people with the exact same mobo.

There's NO reason the company can't include so much as a simple image diagram of the motherboard somewhere on the HD, or on their site, especially considering it seems they use the same mobo for everything they build.
Schematics!?!? When did I ever mention that? I said what I meant...that I found what I needed to know! The discussion has been about PCIE slots and what memory could be used and the like, not the engineering specifications of the computer!

But OK, go to Ford's web site, and find any in depth mechanical details on on an Explorer...or a schematic of a Sony t.v. on their web site. Well! I'll never buy a Sony t.v. or Ford again!

Now, if you can't go to Acer's support site, and find out what memory, or video card type you can use with your computer, then I'll agree...shame on them...but 'ya know what? I do believe that you can find that info.

Frankly, much past that? Acer does not sell "build 'em yourself" enthusiast computers, and does not advertise them as such. To jack them up over not "providing schematics" makes little sense. Now, when I buy my Abit, ASUS, Epox, Gigabyte etc. motherboards...they are sold to enthusiasts who of course are building their own systems, and require that level of information...whole 'nother thing!

I do not mean to rant about this, hell, I don't own any Acer stock, honest! But it is a bit much to get hot and bothered about in-depth manuals and schematic drawings that were never promised, or even hinted at. They sold a computer...in a box...and it clearly stated what came with it, and what was in the box. I kind of doubt that they lied, or misled anyone.

yoshi
@comcast.net

yoshi

Anon

We're not talking about building a pc here, we're talking about what should be the simple procedure of adding on equipment. MY mobo has no diagrams or schematics EXCEPT those given to acer tech support. They are not shared with the general public in any way, or provided to the public on their website. Now, if i want to add an IDE HD to my existing setup, i have to just guess which of the 2 IDE ports is secondary by trial and error? It should be a simple thing to look at the mobo diagram where the connection ports are labeled. Instead, and mind you not to cut costs or because this isn't a "do it yourself" rig, but to ensure job longevity for their tech support, i now have to contact THEM with any questions i may have about the motherboard and system parts.

Oh, and: »www.motorcraftservice.co ··· s_wiring

At least Ford let's you buy the schematics for the Explorer's wiring system online as a download or purchase a CD-ROM with the info on it. That's at least one step above Acer's policy of "screw the consumer, you call us and pay for every question".

signmeuptoo94
Bless you Howie
Premium Member
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle

signmeuptoo94 to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS

Re: What happened to the manuals

said by DKS:

Unlike Lenovo who not only give you full specs and manuals for download, they also tell you what you can and can't upgrade. And the Lenovo Care software downloads all upgrades like BIOS and new drivers.
Lenovo, even though they aren't IBM now, still rule! Me WANTS a real genuine Lenovo! Go to Silicon Valley sometime and look at what a large number of the techies walk around with: Lenovos, that says it all right there.
signmeuptoo94

signmeuptoo94 to PeteC2

Premium Member

to PeteC2

Re: Lots of Acer angst here!

PeteC2, unfair analogy, brother!

First of all, I believe that if you DO have the money, you CAN buy manuals for at least some cars. All cars come with a booklet as well, so they DO come with an owner's manual. No, not a mechanic's manual, but an owner's manual.

Apples to apples here: What these guys are clamouring for is an OWNER'S manual. Not an engineer's spec sheet and schematics, and such as engineer's documentation is the equivalent of the books dealerships have for working on their cars. And even so, you CAN buy such books AFAIK, lots of aftermarket repair shops own them!!!

But, now, getting back to the point here:

These are technical, mechanical, complex pieces of EXPENSIVE equipment. In fact, MORE expensive, by far, than even the most modest 50 dollar motherboard that DOES come with an owner's manual, replete with a type of schematic: a drawing map of where the various primary chips and devices, and jumps and whatnot go.

Sure, it isn't always in paper form. For instance, my DFI Lanparty UT nF4 SLI DR didn't come with the two paper manuals that the non UT version, which was more expensive but identical, did. Nevertheless, it came with two documents with a good amount a information nevertheless, a mini manual and a glossy, pretty card with plenty of instructions. Furthermore, they included a disk with a very detailed manual AND it is on their site to download. And how much profit is there for a manufacturer off of a single motherboard? $5, $15?

Now, visit a full computer. And not just any computer, but the most expensive kind, a laptop. Laptops are more profitable to make and sell, and people buy add on warranties to them more often and usually add on to them no less from the off the shelf list of parts. Many people buy the buy up options. There is a LOT of money to be made in laptops, you have to be kidding me if you try and say that they have to shave pennies here and there to be profitable and that they have to eliminate documentation, that is outrageous. Why be an apologist for an industry that doesn't treat their consumers properly?

Are we supposed to just take it? The very fact is that the consumer is the one that establishes what they think is fair or not fair, because it is THEIR money being spent! Throughout history consumers have applied reasonable pressure to get what they deserve. Sadly, however, it has happened not often enough, for too often, people just bend over and wait and say "are you done yet".

Honestly, where is this angst you are talking about? They are making a very reasonable observation and a common complaint. After all, every uber geek sometimes gets annoyed with noobies and fights the sheer temptation to just tell the noobie, "dood, get a clue, RTFM!", right? It happens in Linux forums all the time, for instance, as WELL as hardware forums here and elsewhere. Well, that is because we understand it, universally, across cultures, that there **should be documentation on expensive technical equipment**.

I went to technician's school, and let me tell ya, one of the very BIGGEST things that they drilled in our heads, often with the most forceful and hard assed means (tough school!) was: "proper documentation, documentation, documentation!!!" I was required to study classes on it, so I have a personal passion for it, that is one of the reasons some of my posts are long, I had it drilled into me to be very thorough and I still can't get it out of my system, they freaking brainwashed me too far, LOL!

There IS no argument here. We should all refuse to give money to companies that refuse to respect us enough to give us what we have coming, what is fair, for the money, and is universally, world wide, common sense, and the standard anyways! After all, EVERY fellow technician, engineer, and scientist brother of mine here will tell you: if you don't provide adequate documentation and related support with that expensive doo hicky you want me to buy, I am taking my business across the street to XYZ's doo hicky company, heck with you, ABC doo hicky company!

When I worked at the national labs, one of my jobs was assuring all documentation was available, would be included, and I had to archive it for my scientists. Just try telling your Stanford scientist boss, when he asks you for the manual to an ABC turbo molecular vacuum pump: "gee doc, they didn't give me one, I dunno..." You'll be out the door within a day! And don't try and tell me it was different with the computers, because I ordered them and they had to have them! Scientist demand them, it is understand and a cultural standard. It just is supposed to be, this isn't rocket science, complex equipment always has to have documentation

Or, perhaps I am living on the wrong planet, Pete? C'mon guy?

Repilce
@insightbb.com

Repilce to gambothell

Anon

to gambothell

Re: What happened to the manuals

I JUST bought an ACER M5100 with AMD 64X2 6000+ 3 GB DDRII and 500GB SATA driver all that stuff..
whilst i was a bit disapointed as well at the lack of finding bios upgrades anywhere.. my bios camed dated from just last october so it's pretty up to date.. While i was planning on building a core 2 system, the site was down (newegg) the morining i was going to order my parts, so the instant gratification bug got me.. to circuit city i headed.

anyways, The thing being, if your going to buy a storebought computer, buy one already fast enough for what you want to do, if you are perusing stores to look for an "overclocker" then you've already stuck yourself in the foot. I play some mild games like wow, orangbox stuff, and q4 ish games, fear.. nothing blazing late to date.. but i did get a HD2600 PRO to throw in mine rahter than the onboard x1250.

On another note, if you are sastified with the system specs but plan on throwing tons of extra crap in there, ie multiple HDS, bada** video card, and addons, prepare to buy a Powersupply for them as well, because most store systems, come with what will run them.. even with the addition of only my HD2600 i was a lil dissapointed with the 12V rail , but i'm just get'n a new one ..

If your in it to tinker,, build.. if u dont know how, learn or ask, if u dont want to do that.. dont complain.

ON another note, simple programs like PCWizard 08 and such will tell you dam near everything about a system you could want to know..