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Travelfan1
RIP Analog Go Digital
join:2005-08-23
Iselin, NJ
 ·Comcast
| Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here I could refer back to my post, but I think, since now we have this sticky, is worth to repeat it here:
www.ncta.com/IssueBrief.aspx?contentId=2688
It shows how Cable Cos will handle the dtv transition:
"The good news for cable customers is that the digital transition should be easy. Thanks to a compromise adopted by the FCC in September 2007, cable companies will carry the main digital signal of “must carry” commercial broadcast TV stations and will duplicate that signal into analog format so that all channels can be viewed on any older analog TV sets connected to cable.
Cable’s carriage of the signals in both digital and analog formats will ensure that all customers will see commercial broadcast TV signals after the transition. This approach will make the digital transition effortless for all cable customers and provide valuable assistance to commercial TV stations trying to reach all of the homes in their region."
So hopefully by Feb 2009 the # of analogs in my area will drop from the current 70 or so to about 17, which will free up tons of spectrum for new HD channels, more Internet speed, etc.
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Comcast of New Jersey II(Union)
Verizon DSL
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| In my area there was a recent article in our local paper about this.
Basically it said Cable companies can do whatever they want. A smaller MSO in our area is going to digital only. You will require a box on every non digital TV with that operator. However they specifically said Comcast will still have analog channels available. It did not mention how many or what analog channels Comcast will have, but it goes to show you that the Operator can do what they please.
I'm hoping that Expanded basic service goes all digital. We could really use the room as our puny 750 MHz system just doesn't cut it anymore in a world of HD, broadband and telephony. Our area seems pretty resistant when it comes to moving channels to digital only. It's early in the year however, and soon they will be pressured to get bandwidth from somewhere. | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | I think going to all digital is a good idea. However the planing for it of course sucks so I'm not in favor of it at the moment.
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Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
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patspub
join:2005-02-10
Philadelphia, PA | I have been seeing alot of commercials on DTV and they always with DTV you will see more channels. What does this mean? | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here Has nothing to do with the FCC OTA Digital transisition. | |
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celeritypc
For Lucky Best Wash, Use Mr. Sparkle
Premium
join:2004-05-15
Caldwell, NJ
| said by patspub  :I have been seeing alot of commercials on DTV and they always with DTV you will see more channels. What does this mean? They are referring to sub-channels. Your local ABC probably has ABC News Now, NBC has Weather Plus, etc. | |
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PGHammer
join:2003-06-09
Accokeek, MD
clubs:
·Comcast
| Comcast will, at least in some areas, replace existing Motorola DCT/DCH-series STBs with newer DCX series STBs (also from Motorola). The new DCX series lineup is as follows:
DCX100 - a smaller HD-in/SD-out PPV-ready STB designed specifically for the DTV transition (will directly replace the DCT-7xx/DCH-100). Unlike the DCT-7xx, it supports M-Card pairing, PPV, and even DTV-HDTV tuning (both 64QAM and 256QAM); the latter feature is also lacking from the DCH-100. Like the DCH-100/DCT-7xx, it includes both RF and component-out (component-out is fixed at 480p).
DCX-3200 - Single-tuner HD/SD STB (no DVR features). Directly replaces existing HD/SD STBs on Motorola or OCAP platforms (including DCH-3200/DCT-62xx/DCT-2xxx). Supports VOD (unlike DCX-100), DTV/HDTV in/out (component and HDMI-out).
DCX-34xx (possible DCX-3450 and DCX-3475?)- Dual-tuner HD/SD STB with DVR functionality. Would directly replace existing DCH-3416s (possibly with increased storage capacity; Seagate does manufacture both 500 and 750 GB drives in the same formfactor and with the same interface as the drive used in current DCH-3416) or similar models in Motorola and OCAP systems.
Common features across all models: MoCA support, FollowMeTV support, OCAP support, M-card pairing
All three are due in 3Q CY 2008 from Motorola.
(from CES 2008 press release and exhibit by Motorola)
Why This Matters (Especially In Comcast Areas)
One rather nasty problem (which first surfaced in Chicago, the first major area to go all-digital, as opposed to ADS) is that come 2009, there will be no analog OTA signal to pass along to the customer. That means digital OTA signals will be either HD or SD (depending on the source). That means, given an HD source, there needs to be a downconversion to SD at the STB (since FCC regulations prohibit a headend-based conversion). That problem will be solved by the DCX-100. This box will also enable cable companies in general (and Comcast in particular) to hold on to customers transitioning from older SD-only TVs to HDTVs from 3Q CY 2008 forward.
The DCX-3200 is aimed more at the same customer that has the existing DCT-62xx/DCH-62xx non-DVR STB today (as it has no new features). Ironically, the most likely box this will replace in warehouses is the DCT-2xxx (at least initially) as this STB supports HDMI-out (which the DCT-2xxx doesn't). This STB, more than even the DCX-100, is most likely to go to an existing customer, even if the customer *isn't* upgrading to a higher program tier.
DCX-34xx - The only change vs. the DCT/DCH-3416 is likely to be in capacity (up to 750 GB internal capacity is possible); however, would any cable comapny get that brave and have an STB with even 500 GB internal capacity, let alone 750 GB? | |
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| bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Comcast and the DTV Transition: What We Know So Far Is there really a regulation that prohibits downconversion at the head-end? It makes sense to me from one standpoint, but from another, there is a regulation saying that MSOs have to continue to provide some kind of analog service through 2012, and one of the two choices MSOs have is via analog signals from the head-end. Are you saying that two regulations together FORCE MSOs to the converter box option? | |
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RBBrittain
@comcast.net
| Re: Comcast and the DTV Transition: What We Know So Far said by bicker :Is there really a regulation that prohibits downconversion at the head-end? It makes sense to me from one standpoint, but from another, there is a regulation saying that MSOs have to continue to provide some kind of analog service through 2012, and one of the two choices MSOs have is via analog signals from the head-end. Are you saying that two regulations together FORCE MSOs to the converter box option? The original poster used that statement in reference to markets that are shutting off analog completely. Under the FCC regulations, digital-only systems must retransmit the station's OTA format (HD or SD) with no downconversion; those systems must supply downconverting STBs to all customers at no extra charge. ADS systems must transmit two signals--(a) a digital signal in the OTA format with no downconversion, and (b) an analog signal downconverted to SD.
Also note that the regulations only apply to "must-carry" stations, i.e., noncommercial and smaller commercial stations. Except for the "no downconversion" rule for the digital signal, they don't apply to "retransmission consent" stations (usually major-network stations, but depends on the cable system); however, it's highly unlikely those stations will permit anything else. Those stations want HD for digital customers and SD for everyone else; anything else will lose viewers and backfire on them. | |
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RBBrittain
@comcast.net
| Re: Comcast and the DTV Transition: What We Know So Far After re-reading the regulation, it appears that so long as the OTA-format signal is provided without downconversion, along with either (a) digital STBs or (b) an analog signal, nothing prevents the system from transmitting an additional downconverted digital signal. Indeed, the rule specifically says that downconversion is NOT "material degradation" (which is prohibited by Federal law) if it's done to make the signal "viewable" to all customers (as required by Federal law).
Thus, if a cable system decides to carry a separate digital-SD version of an HD signal to serve digital-SD STBs that can't downconvert, that *appears* to be permissible. However, that amounts to two signals on digital-only systems and three on ADS systems; HD is mandatory for all systems, while analog is also mandatory for ADS systems. With current bandwidth demands, that is unlikely to happen; also, Comcast lawyers may read the regulation differently than I do. Either way, eliminating digital-SD feeds may be the more prudent move.
(Note: Non-ADS mixed analog/digital systems will follow the same rules as ADS systems; however, Comcast is now 100% ADS.) | |
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| | | | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | Re: Comcast and the DTV Transition: What We Know So Far That's not entirely true: Analog and digital are not both mandatory at the same time. It is one or the other, depending on the current operating status of the station. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | HD is not mandatory. I wish people would get it straight. The digital conversion has nothing to do with High Definition. What it has to do, is changing the signal from an Analog waveform, to 1's & 0's being transmitted. | |
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luckykevin
join:2005-04-30
Arlington, TX | Re: Comcast and the DTV Transition: What We Know So Far also another benefit of the dcx is 1ghz tuners | |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs: | Thats cool that the DCX-100 can downconvert HD to SD for the older TV's. Currently you get a black screen (sometimes your lucky and get audio) if you tune to an HD channel on a DCT-2xxx or DCT-700.
Bravo Motorola! | |
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sansri88
Go digtal you analog laggards
Premium
join:2005-12-17
New York, NY
clubs: | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here That would mean your area is ADS. It has a digital tuner only. | |
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hussle87
Premium
join:2008-01-06
Sykesville, MD | I don't really get what comcast is doing for 2009. I thought cable and satelite providers were required to go all digital. With that how is comcast going to transmit in analog. My guess is that they will only transmit the basic in analog. | |
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| bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here Cable providers are NOT required to go all-digital in February 2009. ONLY over-the-air broadcasters are required to go all-digital in February 2009. Cable providers are required to provide analog signals, either via the coax or via analog outputs from a digital cable box, through December 2012. | |
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hussle87
Premium
join:2008-01-06
Sykesville, MD | so that means that by 2012 we will all have to own a DTV right? | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
| Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here said by hussle87 :so that means that by 2012 we will all have to own a DTV right? No. You will though need a Digital Convertor box, or have to upgrade your Television set to one that contains a NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner. This does not mean to go out and purchase a HD set. | |
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Snowcat
join:2004-02-02
Nashville, TN | Has anyone received their government coupons yet? I sent away for one on Jan 1, and I thought they would be ready by early Feb. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
| Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here It will be later this year as mentioned in the disclaimer, not at the beginning. Even then, unless you do not have a need for the ATSC tuner, due to have CATV or Satellite, it will serve no purpose. Matter of fact, the tuners only do 480i, and nothing else. | |
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Snowcat
join:2004-02-02
Nashville, TN
 ·EarthLink
2 edits | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here said by Greg_Z :It will be later this year as mentioned in the disclaimer, not at the beginning. Later this month, not later this year.
»https://www.dtv2009.gov/RecentUpdates.aspx
TV Converter Box Coupons are plastic cards that look like gift cards. They will be:
-Mailed to households with approved applications, starting in late February.
-Sent based on the date of application, in the order in which the applications were received.
-Mailed on a staggered basis - not all at once.
-Delivered by the U.S. Postal Service.
Coupons cannot be printed or downloaded from the Program Website and are not available to pick up at retail locations.
Remember to call ahead to confirm availability of coupon-eligible converter boxes at the store on the day you plan to shop. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here »https://www.dtv2009.gov/FAQ.aspx
Consumers who apply at the beginning or 2008 will receive their coupons when TV converter boxes are expected to be available in retail stores, probably in late February or early March.
The Probably in Government terms means when ever we get around to it, and most likely will be late in 2008 when they will be sent, and will not have enough for the number of requests received. | |
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Snowcat
join:2004-02-02
Nashville, TN | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here Give the government some credit. The converter boxes are already in the stores, and I am sure the coupons will start arriving in the next few weeks.
While I don't need one, it might not be bad to have one as a backup or for a portable tv. | |
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join:2000-08-15
Dayton, OH
| It looks like the converter boxes are now available at many retail stores. Prices range from $49.97 to $59.99 for the basic models.
I haven't received my coupon yet, but when I checked the status on the dtv2009.gov website, it said my coupons would be mailed out soon. | |
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janewski
@comcast.net
| Okay, so in plain English, what happens to us analog subscribers when cable companies are forced to go all digital in 2012? Does that mean that Comcast will now require me to pay for a digital box for each of my TV sets? Can I just use a converter box that you can buy in any electronics store to convert the cable company's digital signal back to analog so that I don't have to buy the cable company's overpriced digital boxes or throw away my three big, expensive analog TVs?
Suppose you have Direct TV or Dish Network...those are already digital, so would you still need a converter box if you are using those services? | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here NOTHING. If you need a Digital STB, they will contact you. | |
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| bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| To be clear: Cable companies won't be "forced" to go all-digital in 2012. They can go all-digital before that, simply by making converter boxes with analog outputs available. And they can probably continue to provide some analog service after that, if they wish.
Cable companies can probably charge for converter boxes, even after they go all-digital, but we expect most will provide at least one converter box included in the basic fees. Converter boxes you buy from electronics stores will work, but only for unencrypted channels, unless they support CableCards (which you'll have to rent from the cable company).
Indeed, DirecTV and Dish Network already require you to use one of their converter boxes. You cannot even buy one at an electronics store -- the satellite systems are closed to you. | |
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anonomous
@comcast.net
| Comcast goes all digital here. Our HD DVR is one of the new DCH 3416 set top boxes w/160 GB HDD and it only receives digital. I believe in my area, Comcast sends 3 streams for some of the standard cable channels, one is analog for a regular TV to pick up. Another is digital for STBs to pick up. The third is an HD version of certain channels. If they get rid of the analog channels, use SDV, and MPEG-4, it would free up LOTS of bandwidth which can be used for more HD channels, more on-demand, and for faster HSI when they switch over to DOCSIS 3.0. PLEASE COMCAST SWITCH TO ALL DIGITAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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| pgoelz
join:2001-12-26
Rochester, MI
| Re: I hope said by anonomous :
PLEASE COMCAST SWITCH TO ALL DIGITAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe good for you but I currently have five TVs and a TV video card connected to our analog cable system. If Comcast goes all digital, those TVs are dead unless I rent a box for each one of them. Most of them are used only occasionally, making it not economical. At best, I can put QAM converter boxes on them, but around here Comcast encrypts most of the basic and extended basic channels so that won't get me much.
Paul | |
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| | shezams
My Other Car Is A Zamboni
Premium
join:2001-08-14
Hyattsville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: I hope In the DC area too most of the Digital cable signals are encrypted and I so do not want a Comcast truck roll to have someone with less skill than I have stick it in my Tivo which I just got, and set up for the analog just fine. There are over 400 digital channels and subchannels which for the most part are encrypted. My Tivo reported them, but without a cable card I cannot view them.
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Simple rules - no offsides, no intent to maim, everything else is all good! | |
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YukonHawk
join:2001-01-07
Patterson, NY
·Comcast
1 edit | Maybe someone can help me with this question. Currently I do not have any set top boxes for my 3 TVs. I just have basic cable and decided not to rent any. With the digital transition coming in Feb 2009 will I need to start renting a STB from Comcast.
Thanks for any help.
Paul | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here You can either rent the boxes from the provider, or go out and get your own ATSC/QAM boxes, and take the crapshoot to hope that your provider does not encrypt the HD or SD channels. | |
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| | YukonHawk
join:2001-01-07
Patterson, NY | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here Thanks for the quick reply. | |
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| bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Do keep in mind that there is not necessarily any relationship between the 2/17/2009 date and your cable provider. Whatever your cable provider will do they can do before that date or after that date. That date specifically only pertains to the televisions you have that are receiving reception via an antenna. | |
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| | YukonHawk
join:2001-01-07
Patterson, NY | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here Bicker..thanks to you and everyone here. | |
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lts48
join:2008-03-26
Barrington, IL
| I noted that a responder to this thread mentioned he had not received his TV Converter Box coupons. Just an fyi, I received my (2) about 2 weeks ago. They are like credit cards that expire 90 days from when they were mailed. They can only be used towards the purchase of a single coupon-eligible converter box. They can only be used once. A list of certified eligible converter boxes is provided and a web site for a more current list. They also point you towards Best Buy, Radio Shack and Wal-Mart as a participating retailer and again towards a web site that has a more current list of retailers.
On my part, I have one technical question: If a converter box just converts digital back to analog, can that box be placed in front of a splitter that then sends separate signals to two analog TVs or analog VCR? or Do I have to buy one converter box for each analog tv or analog VCR in the house? | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here Go ahead and place it in front of all the Tvs & VCRs in the house. Everyone will be watching the same thing. | |
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lts48
join:2008-03-26
Barrington, IL
| OK, so the converter box converts digital to analog and you have a tuner in the converter that then displays OTA digital broadcasts on your analog tv or through your VCR to the analog TV on Channel 3/4. Then, if I wanted to watch one channel while recording another, I need to split the antenna signal between the TV and the VCR and have a second converter box in front of the VCR to record a different channel. What then is the purpose of the composite outputs of these converter boxes? Probably just an optional connection for the designated channel on the converter box, I assume. When I read these references to a "pass through" capability, what would that mean? | |
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| NoPegs
Premium
join:2006-06-14
Myerstown, PA
| Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here The purpose of composite ports is for better picture quality and *STEREO* sound. You don't get either out of coaxial remod on 3/4 usually (there are exceptions, but they're less than 1% installed userbase!)...
Try it, even on a 19" tv you should see a better picture with red/white/yellow over channel 4. Put your tv on input 1 or line1 or video 1 instead of channel 3 or 4. take the coax cable out from between the box and tv and use a set of red/white/yellow.  | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Yep, thats it. That will surely allow you to watch the same as you are recording, and same for the other TV sets. | |
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lts48
join:2008-03-26
Barrington, IL
| Greg Z
No, what I am saying is that with 2 converter boxes, I should be able to watch/record (2) different channels, correct?
Also, do you know what is meant by converters having a pass through capability? It seems like potential users want that capability. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL | Re: 2/17/2009 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here They work the same way as your CATV STB. The pass through means, that you can send a signal such as CATV, Through the box, without it making any conversions to the signal. | |
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ThinkAgain
@comcast.net
| Again, the digital cutoff date that the federal coupons are good for have NOTHING to do with cable television. That cutoff date only refers to over the air television (OTA). If you have cable or satelite, then this date and these coupons have nothing to do with you. The only people that need to pay attention are maybe your grandparents who still have a roof arial or rabbit ear antenna.
Cable tv signal is transmitted over their own cables. The signal is not sent over the 700MHz frequency band. Opening up this frequency for other uses is the entire purpose of why the government is cutting over the air analog tv next year.
While it is advantageous for a cable company to transmit all of their stations in a digital format over the cable since it uses less bandwidth that way (= more channels in same amount of space), it is up to the cable company whether or not to use analog or cable. The cable company is using its own closed network. | |
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Greg_Z
Premium
join:2001-08-08
Springfield, IL
·Comcast
1 edit | In all due reality, High Definition is anything over the standard 480 lines of resolution, and just because everything is going Digital, does not automatically define it as High Definition.
Historically the term high-definition television was first used to refer to television standards developed in the 1930s to replace early experimental systems with as few as 12 lines. Not so long afterwards John Logie Baird, Philo T. Farnsworth and Vladimir Zworykin had each developed competing TV systems but resolution was not the issue that separated their substantially different technologies. It was patent interference lawsuits and deployment issues given the tumultuous financial climate of the late '20s and '30s.
The British 405-line system was the first to advertise itself as high definition and see widespread use. Most patents were expiring by the end of World War II leaving the market wide open and no worldwide standard for television agreed upon. The world used analog PAL, NTSC, SECAM and other standards for over half a century.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hig···n_system
»digital-lifestyle.aol.com/video/···09990001
Analog vs. Digital
Until very recently, all television broadcasts were analog. With analog transmission, programming is transmitted in a continuous signal that varies in amplitude, depending on the information contained in the picture. This signal can easily deteriorate over distance or suffer interference from other sources, which produces a lower-quality picture than the original. The primary advantage of digital transmission is that it slices the traditional analog television signal into a series of digital bits, which are then recombined to reproduce an exact copy of the original broadcast. These digital signals don't weaken with distance, as analog signals do. As long as the signal can be received, the picture is perfect, with no degradation. Since digital signals are comprised of binary bits, a 1 is always a 1 and a 0 is always a 0. Because of this exact end-to-end reproduction, digital means better picture and sound quality, no matter what is broadcast.
Different Types of Digital TV
Digital programming comes in many shapes and sizes. Not all digital broadcasts have the same resolution or aspect ratio. Here's a quick guide to all current digital formats:
• SDTV - Standard definition digital television has the same resolution and 4:3 aspect ratio as traditional analog television but is transmitted in digital fashion. The SDTV picture is 480 x 640 pixels, with interlaced scanning.
• EDTV - Enhanced definition television has the same resolution as SDTV but with progressive scanning instead of interlaced scanning, which creates a smoother overall picture. EDTV can be in either the 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio, for a resolution of either 480 x 640 or 480 x 720 pixels.
• HDTV (720p) - The first of the three current high definition television formats features 720 x 1280 pixel resolution with progressive scanning. This format is ideal for programming with lots of movement, such as sporting events. The aspect ratio is 16:9.
• HDTV (1080i). The second current high definition format features greater resolution than 720p (1080 x 1920 pixels), but with interlaced scanning. Like 720p, the aspect ratio is 16:9
• HDTV (1080p) - This is the ultimate high definition format, with 1080 x 1920 pixel resolution (in the 16:9 ratio) and progressive scanning. Because of the high bandwidth requirements, this format is not yet used for television broadcasts, although the new HD DVD and Blu-ray high-definition DVD formats will be capable of a 1080p picture.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-defin···levision
Further information: Analog high-definition television system
The term high definition described the television systems of the 1930s and 1940s beginning with the British 405-line black-and-white system, introduced in 1936; however, it, and the American 525-line NTSC system established in 1941, were only high definition in comparison with previous mechanical and electronic television systems. Today, the American 525-line NTSC system and the European 625-line PAL and SECAM systems are only regarded as standard definition. The post–WWII French 819-line black-and-white system was high definition in the contemporary sense, but was discontinued in 1986, a year after the final British 405-line broadcast.
In 1958, the U.S.S.R. created Òransformator (Russian: Òðàíñôîðìàòîð, "Transformer"), the first high-resolution (definition) television system capable of producing an image composed of 1,125 lines of resolution for the purpose of television conferences among military commands; as it was a military product, it was not commercialised.[1]
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I threw out the map a long time ago. Now I follow my own direction! | |
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matt91
join:2002-12-18
Washington, DC | Can anyone summarize which cities have already gone (nearly) all digital for Comcast? (e.g., 12 - 20 or so analog channels left, the rest all digital).
I've seen a reference to Chicago. Are there others?
Matt | |
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