bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
1 edit | reply to Agent 86
Re: 2/17 & 6/12 - All DIGITAL TV Transition Discussions go here
RCN is not a legacy service provider. 
You can choose to agree with whatever you want, but the point stands: The legacy service providers haven't dropped analog yet. |
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Agent 86
@comcast.net
3 edits | reply to sansri88
Want another example? Ok, here's one: GCI.
But if Verizon and RCN don't exist, then I'm sure GCI doesn't either.
In fact, does any cable company exist for you, bicker, except for Comcast? Perhaps you could give a list of cable companies whose existence you acknowledge. |
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markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Not sure what you are getting at Agent 86, GCI and RCN are exempt from the FCC analog compatibility regulations because they are considered small providers and under the threshhold. Verizon is not a cable company, it is a telecom along with U-Verse and the regulations are tailored to their delivery product just like satellite.
Here in the Comcast TV forum, the word "Cable" usually refers to Comcast and sometimes lumps a few equal ventured companies when comparing different delivery techs to include the "big six" as defined by the NCTA. These "Cable" companies are bound by the FCC regs to provide analog support on FCC approved must-carry broadcast channels who elect the analog option until 2012; either by delivering an analog signal or providing a Digital to Analog converter at the consumer's location. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | reply to Agent 86
Charter, Cox, Time Warner, Cablevision are all legacy cable service providers. |
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hussle87
Premium
join:2008-01-06
Sykesville, MD | reply to sansri88
I talked to comcast via chat and carroll county is scheduled for aug 11th migration. so we'll see. |
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Agent 86
@comcast.net
| reply to sansri88
Mark, all 3 cable companies I mentioned were forced to drop analog (i.e. in exchange for favors). Not "allowed" - forced. Dropping analog is what the FCC wants. So the statement that cable is required to carry analog is not just wrong, it is 180 degrees opposite from FCC policy. (Yes, they have to offer cable boxes with analog outputs - which of course they all do anyway. That is completely irrelevant). |
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markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| said by Agent 86 :
(Yes, they have to offer cable boxes with analog outputs - which of course they all do anyway. That is completely irrelevant).
No, it isn't, it's the very point you fail to understand. Verizon (which is NOT a cable company) is subject to the same statute as Comcast, Cox, etc, they must provide at least one digital to analog converter per home (which they do, every Verizon package includes one STB). GCI services Anchorage, Alaska; it's customer base is below the threshhold, it is not required to provide a DTA (but, again, they do, so they are in compliance with a regulation they do not need to comply with if they so choose).
"Small" operators have ALWAYS had relief from FCC regulations.
RCN was not forced, it chose to convert and did it to compete with Comcast in Chicago ONLY:
said by RCN's Website :
I have heard that RCN is converting its system to all-digital. What is that all about?
Separate from the nationwide over-the-air digital television transition, RCN is in the process of phasing out our own analog tier of service in order to free up capacity so we can bring you more High Definition and Video-On-Demand programming. The RCN system in the Chicago market has completed this conversion and is now providing its customers with fully digital cable service. The remaining RCN systems will be converting through out this year and next. This is a separate process from the digital broadcast television transition and may not be completed in all markets prior to February 17, 2009. All of RCN’s customers, including those using both analog and digital television sets, will continue to receive their cable and local broadcast channels without interruption, but it will require that you have a set-top box or cablecard at each TV.
BTW, RCN Chicago includes one set-top box with it's service, thus complying with the Analog compatibility Must-Carry option until 2012. In Lehigh Valley where analog signal is still used, they do not include it.
Comcast, Cox, Time Warner, etc. had a CHOICE which way they would comply with the FCC Broadcast mandate that accepted Must-Carry licenses with the option to force analog compatibility until 2012 in regard to carriage. They could either convert to analog at the head end or at the customer's location. Comcast decided to do it at the head-end, RCN/GCI/Verizon chose to do it at the customer's location.
I will state this again since you failed to either read it or understand it the first time.
said by markofmayhem :
bound by the FCC regs to provide analog support on FCC approved must-carry broadcast channels who elect the analog option until 2012; either by delivering an analog signal or providing a Digital to Analog converter at the consumer's location.
No "cable" company is forced to carry analog, they are FORCED to provide compatibility for an anaog television to receive FCC accepted Must-Carry broadcast channels carried on the system. They can do this through DTA's in the home or by converting to analog at the head-end and continue to send an analog signal downline.
Just to put the nail in this tired old coffin YET AGAIN.
At no time did the FCC force Verizon to go "all digital".
Verizon applied for a waiver, so did the "cable companies", the goal was to yet again put off the seperate security STB's that have a higher cost to purchase from Motorola/SA. Verizon was granted the waiver, the cable companies were not. Verizon promised the FCC it would go all-digital before the DTV switch, helping it achieve this waiver. Verizon missed it's promise. The waiver was the ability to use non-seperate security equipment, such as the QIP3416 and QIP6416. |
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darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Comcast
| I'm confused, which promise did Vz miss? Because they certainly went all digital well before the DTV switch... |
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markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Ack, not what I meant to say. Thank you for the catch. Too many words in too little time 
Verizon applied for a waiver, so did the "cable companies", the goal was to yet again put off the seperate security STB's that have a higher cost to purchase from Motorola/SA. Verizon was granted the waiver, the cable companies were not. Verizon promised the FCC it would go all-digital before the DTV switch, helping it achieve this waiver. Verizon didn't miss it's promise. The waiver was the ability to use non-seperate security equipment, such as the QIP3416 and QIP6416. |
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hussle87
Premium
join:2008-01-06
Sykesville, MD | reply to sansri88
any little bird tweeting about the next markets going digital? |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| Our area has a very full list of projects....
June: Newburyport, Newbury, West Newbury, Rowley and Ipswich.
September: Ashland, Bellingham, Blackstone, Franklin, Holliston, Hopedale, Hopkinton, Marlboro, Medway, Mendon, Milford, Millis & Plainville
October: Arlington, Belmont, Burlington, Cambridge, Lynnfield, MIT, Nahant, Revere, Peabody, Reading, Saugus, Stoneham Wilmington, Winchester & Woburn
November: Attleboro, Avon, Bridgewater, Brockton, Dighton, East Bridgewater, Easton, Hanson, Holbrook, Mansfield, North Attleboro, Norton, Raynham, Rehoboth, Seekonk, Somerset, Stoughton, Swansea, Taunton, West Bridgewater & Whitman, Andover, Lawrence, Georgetown, Groveland, Haverhill, Methuen, North Andover & North Reading |
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joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
3 edits | Funny, after all this, I got an email from TiVo telling me of my town's transition.
IM with Comcast confirmed it's next week.
I'm certain I didn't miss any mail and no email came from Comcast to warn me. Well, I guess I'll go get my DTAs.
I still have no idea what channels I'll get on the old cable ready TV, or the TV with the TiVo but with no cards. I guess I'll know soon.
(UPDATE - chatted again, my town NOT on list yet, yesterday's agent made a mistake. Or today's did, hmm, I'll figure it was yesterday that got it wrong, as Bicker here didn't have me on list)
(Update, later same day - I just got the letter. Sudbury, MA going digital Jan 19, 2010. So it appears that TiVo had better info than either rep, one had a bad date, the other, none at all.) |
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mahohmei
join:2008-10-29
1 edit | In Tallahassee, I just found that Comcast's web listing of offerings for our market has changed:
- The absolute lowest cable package available is "Digital Starter"; they don't even have must-carry analog.
- The only high-speed Internet package is Performance Plus "Downloads up to 16Mbps, uploads up to 2Mbps with PowerBoost", which sounds like it would be 8 mbps. I just rebooted my cable modem, and I'm still getting 6.6/1.1.
Coincidentally, Comcast just introduced domain-not-found hijacking in our area, which I very quickly opted out of.
This made me think: does this mean Project Cavalry has made touch down here? |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA | The website need not necessarily show all the options available to you. Call them to discuss all the options available to you. |
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Prairie Dog
Here's Looking At You Kid
Premium
join:2000-08-09
Langhorne, PA
| Question regarding the new digital service. I currently have Digital Preferred service. When I activated my new cable digital adapters, I was receiving channels such as the game show Network. However, that only lasted a day, and then that channel and others were gone. Previously I receive that and such channels only with the TVs that had the standard Comcast Motorola box, which I paid $9.99 a month for, I am still receiving the channels on those higher priced boxes. Should I be able to receive these channels now with these new digital boxes on all TVs, since I am paying a monthly fee for Digital Preferred. |
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frantic1049
join:2006-09-24
Quakertown, PA | GSN comes in here in Upper Bucks on the TV with the DTA, but not on the analog TV that doesn't have a DTA. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
2 edits | reply to Prairie Dog
Digital Preferred service comes with one (1) digital STB (or one CableCARD), plus (in areas where Comcast has gone "all-digital") two (2) DTAs. The STB (or CableCARD) will provide you access to all the linear channels you're paying for. Until Comcast is granted a waiver, DTAs, by law, cannot not present cable networks that are encrypted, regardless of the service tier you are subscribed to. If you want the higher-tier channels on more televisions, you need to rent more decryption devices (STBs or CableCARDs). |
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Prairie Dog
Here's Looking At You Kid
Premium
join:2000-08-09
Langhorne, PA | ok, thanks for the explanation. |
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joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to bicker
said by bicker  :Until Comcast is granted a waiver, DTAs, by law, cannot not present cable networks that are encrypted, regardless of the service tier you are subscribed to. Just when I thought I understood.
I thought a DTA was just a converter analogous to the OTA box, but shifting QAM to view on analog TV. With no decryption in the box, what law are you referencing? How will DTAs suddenly decrypt upon receipt of any waiver? (Do DTAs have more power than I understand?) |
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andyross
join:2003-05-04
Schaumburg, IL
1 edit | DTA's have a privacy mode, which is a simple form of encryption. I think it leaves a readable MPEG stream, but the data in it is scrambled. If it works similar to the way porn was shown OnDemand before it became encrypted, it just shows as a shimmering freeze-frame of the last picture the TV saw, or green/pink blocks shimmering and moving.
Full encryption makes even the MPEG stream unreadable. It uses patented techniques that require royalty payments ($$$). I don't know if there is an actual law saying you can't use encryption (maybe for broadcast/local access, but I don't know about other channels), or if it's just a cost issue.
DTA's are a bit more sophisticated than a simple QAM tuner. They do have activation, and read a channel map hidden in the data stream on most channels so the user can use regular channel numbers. A plain QAM tuner will typically end up using 86-1, 86-2, 86-3, etc... unless Comcast starts using PSIP to remap numbers. |
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