 amarryatVerizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA
 ·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | reply to matcarl
Re: 150 HD channels said by matcarl:said by amarryat:said by matcarl:Almost every station in the country is currently simulcasting their analog signal to digital. This SD version will replace the analog version. It's as simple as that. I thought in the end that the HD will be replacing the analog. So why carry it in SD too since tuners can receive both? The same reason we have both now. I think we have both now because the analog signal is still around. Once the analog signal is gone, why take HD broadcast and downcovert to SD at the station and transmit both an HD and SD feed of the same programming? Since the tuners can pick up either and supply either to the old TV, there is no point in carrying both.
Maybe I am understanding it incorrectly, but since a digital tuner can receive either and present either to an old TV, then why would a broadcaster send out 2 transmissions of the same thing - seems a bit redundant. |
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 matcarlPremium
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY
3 edits | They are doing it for the 14 million people that still rely on OTA. Maybe several years down the road they may only have HD signals, but for now they need to replace their analog signals with the same eqivalent for people who watch TV OTA. |
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Has anybody heard any rumors if they will throw us a couple of hd channels before the spring date?
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You have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel |
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said by matcarl:They are doing it for the 14 million people that still rely on OTA. Maybe several years down the road they may only have HD signals, but for now they need to replace their analog sinals with the same eqivalent for people who watch TV OTA. Anyone wishing to watch OTA TV will need either a digital tuner or Digtal converter box, Both of which will decode & show the HD channel feed to an SD TV...
So after '09 analog shut off, no one will "need" a seperate SD feed to watch OTA TV, just a Digital Tuner or Box. |
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amarryatVerizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to matcarl
said by matcarl:They are doing it for the 14 million people that still rely on OTA. Maybe several years down the road they may only have HD signals, but for now they need to replace their analog signals with the same eqivalent for people who watch TV OTA. That's where I am not understanding. These people are going to need converter boxes which can tune a digital channel and output to an analog TV. Unless these converter boxes are crippled as to only be able to tune SD digital channels, I don't see why you wouldn't tune to the HD channel and watch on your old TV. |
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1 edit | reply to matcarl
said by matcarl:They are doing it for the 14 million people that still rely on OTA. Maybe several years down the road they may only have HD signals, but for now they need to replace their analog signals with the same eqivalent for people who watch TV OTA. Huh? There is some serious mis-understanding of how this works in this thread. Any ATSC tuner can receive a HD sub-channel and down-convert it to 480i for an SD TV. There is no reason to provide a simulcast SD sub-channel on the broadcast signal. There are a few stations that do for some cable operators, but those SD sub-channels should go away.
The situation is different for the cable companies. They have millions of SD only digital STBs which can't handle a HD signal and millions of analog only subscribers, so they have to provide a SD digital channel and, if they keep analog, a analog channel. Many of the analog channels on cable come from a digital source already as many (maybe almost all?) national cable channels have converted or are converting to a digital SD feed only to save expensive satellite bandwidth. The cable company at the head end converts the digital SD signal to NTSC analog. They can do the same for the local broadcast stations.
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1 edit | said by afiggatt:said by matcarl:They are doing it for the 14 million people that still rely on OTA. Maybe several years down the road they may only have HD signals, but for now they need to replace their analog signals with the same eqivalent for people who watch TV OTA. Huh? There is some serious mis-understanding of how this works in this thread. Any ATSC tuner can receive a HD sub-channel and down-convert it to 480i for an SD TV. There is no reason to provide a simulcast SD sub-channel on the broadcast signal. There are a few stations that do for some cable operators, but those SD sub-channels should go away...... Thank You!  I've been trying to say the same thing, & others here are being confused as to why millions of OTA people will "Need" a seperate SD feed after Feb '09" (which they won't, just a converter box on their analog TV.) |
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amarryatVerizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by MeatChicken: Thank You! I've been trying to say the same thing, & others here are being confused as to why millions of OTA people will "Need" a seperate SD feed after Feb '09" (which they won't, just a converter box on their analog TV.) Thanks too - this makes much more sense to me. |
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Thank you for the link to the source. This will make my parting from *E a little easier.... FIOS here I come |
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KenAF
join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA
4 edits | reply to MeatChicken
said by MeatChicken:said by matcarl:Almost every station in the country is currently simulcasting their analog signal to digital. This SD version will replace the analog version. It's as simple as that. Where are you getting "almost every" since "almost None" are actually broadcasting any "SD digital" signal ... Again, WCBS, WNBC & WABC do NOT . Philly doesn't .. ect ... All of those affiliates have SD digital feeds available via cable, supplied by fiber. With the cable company box, those SD feeds are mapped in place of the analog versions.
It costs networks and affiliates very little to distribute a SD feed, and a high percentage of viewers will continue to watch that feed for years to come on their cable SD STBs without ATSC capability. |
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2 edits | said by KenAF  All of those affiliates have SD digital feeds available via cable, supplied by fiber. With the cable company box, those SD feeds are mapped in place of the analog versions.
It costs networks and affiliates very little to distribute a SD feed, and a high percentage of viewers will continue to watch that feed for years to come on their cable SD STBs without ATSC capability.
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We were referring to what is being "broadcast" OTA, not piped in a closed system thru fiber right now, & weather or not there is a need for an OTA SD feed of HD signals, since any TV capable of seeing an OTA signal after FEb '09 (directly or thru a converter), will also be able to "create" it's own SD "feed" from the HD signal, if it's an SD TV set ...
I wonder if even closed loop SD feeds to Cable head ends will stop soon after, since it will cost little for the Cable head end to downconvert the HD feed to 480i & map that to the SD channel ....
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said by KenAF:All of those affiliates have SD digital feeds available via cable, supplied by fiber. With the cable company box, those SD feeds are mapped in place of the analog versions. I know for a fact that's not true on Comcast. Comcast digitizes what they receive in analog for mapping on their cable boxes. They switched over to this simulcast a couple of years back. They do not get SD digital feeds of local channels - they create them. That's why the SD digital feeds are reddish in color on Comcast but not Verizon in the Philly area. Comcast is using crap equipment to do it.
So now we're down to affiliates having SD digital feeds that they feed over fiber to every cable system except Comcast.
I don't think this is right. |
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Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | reply to matcarl
The only advantage of a separate SD sub-channel is that it's in the proper aspect ratio for most SD televisions. Every ATSC tuner (including those that will be in the coupon eligible boxes is required to receive HD, ED, and SD. The difference between HD and SD tuners is the output to the TV. In fact to be eligible for the coupon program the converters must have both 16/9 (will appear letter-boxed on 4/3 screen) and 4/3 aspect ratios as well as a simple zoom mode. |
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KenAF
join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA
4 edits | reply to knarf829
said by knarf829:said by KenAF:All of those affiliates have SD digital feeds available via cable, supplied by fiber. With the cable company box, those SD feeds are mapped in place of the analog versions. I know for a fact that's not true on Comcast. Comcast digitizes what they receive in analog for mapping on their cable boxes. They switched over to this simulcast a couple of years back. They do not get SD digital feeds of local channels - they create them. That's why the SD digital feeds are reddish in color on Comcast but not Verizon in the Philly area. Comcast is using crap equipment to do it. So now we're down to affiliates having SD digital feeds that they feed over fiber to every cable system except Comcast. I don't think this is right. Well, that would be specific to your area. I don't know why Comcast in your market does not receive locals in digital SD. [Mine does.] You can tell because many of these channels have a different bug (affiliate logo). |
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3 edits | said by KenAF:said by knarf829:said by KenAF:All of those affiliates have SD digital feeds available via cable, supplied by fiber. With the cable company box, those SD feeds are mapped in place of the analog versions. I know for a fact that's not true on Comcast. Comcast digitizes what they receive in analog for mapping on their cable boxes. They switched over to this simulcast a couple of years back. They do not get SD digital feeds of local channels - they create them. That's why the SD digital feeds are reddish in color on Comcast but not Verizon in the Philly area. Comcast is using crap equipment to do it. So now we're down to affiliates having SD digital feeds that they feed over fiber to every cable system except Comcast. I don't think this is right. Well, that would be specific to your area. I don't know why Comcast in your market does not receive locals in digital SD. [Mine does.] You can tell because many of these channels have a different bug (affiliate logo). Ken, in general you know a lot of stuff and I usually defer to your knowledge, but you're just wrong in this scenario. When Comcast introduced Digital Simulcast (Nationally, not local to me) it was pretty well covered (Nationally, not local to me).
Here's an example from »www.multichannel.com/article/CA487308.html
quote:
Comcast has started to purchase encoders for each of its systems to handle the conversion of local TV station signals and local origination channels, Fellows said. In some markets, that could be as many as 30 or more encoders.
“The assumption is that with the off-airs, we will have to do the encoding,” Fellows said.
They are taking analog feeds and making digital feeds in house, including local stations. Unless they decided to purchase 30 encoders per market for nothing or to do something that the affiliates were already doing for free.
I had Comcast through the month of June and can say with certainty that the quality of the encoding on the SD Digital channels did not change from the way it was when Simulcasting was implemented. It started red, it ended red. Switched to Verizon...no more red. The two feeds are not coming from the same source. Either all of my local affiliates decided to create a digital SD feed for the handful of Verizon customers in the area, or Comcast and Verizon are each doing their own encoding in house. |
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jammmin
join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD | reply to amarryat
There is all this talk about Verizon adding 150 HD channels
There has been all this talk about Verizon addind 150 HD channels this year but little talk about the other channels that are missing.
Verizon is massively deficient in international channels. Directv and especially Dish Network has tones of international channels for all its audience.
A lot of SD channels are still missing
- NBA TV
-CSTV
-NASA TV
-Chiller
-Reel TV
-Current TV
Also the Indemand Sport packages (NBA, NHL, MLS, MLB). Sports fanatics are not going to subscribe to FIOS if they can’t get their favorite sports packages.
What about the 15 VOOM HD channels. Even though they are crap( I have seen them on Cablevision), its more about a numbers game than anything else. Its about who has the most HD channels.
Verizon still has so much to do regarding its channel lineup this year. It is still very deficient in that area. |
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OwlSaverOwlSaverPremium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA | reply to amarryat
My guess is they want to keep the cost down for the converter boxes that OTA people will have to buy. If the boxes have to do HD to SD conversion as well as their primary function of ATSC to NTSC conversion, they will cost more. |
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OwlSaverOwlSaverPremium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA | reply to afiggatt
It seems to me that ATSC to NTSC is one conversion and HD to SD is a spearate conversion. Would it not be cheaper to produce a converter that only does ATSC to NTSC? |
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OwlSaverOwlSaverPremium
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Sammer
I did not know that was a requirment of the coupon program. That is probably good as it will reduce the variety of signals and boxes being distrubted. there would be nothing worse than getting a box that lets you pick up ABC and PBS but not CBS and NBC - for example. |
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amarryatVerizon FiOS
join:2005-05-02
Marshfield, MA Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to OwlSaver
said by OwlSaver:It seems to me that ATSC to NTSC is one conversion and HD to SD is a spearate conversion. Would it not be cheaper to produce a converter that only does ATSC to NTSC? I believe you are partly correct, but also think that the HD to SD point is incorrect. At least when I refer to SD, I am referring to a digital version of the analog channels that we are all used to watching. And HD is also digital. I think that the difference between SD and HD is simply in the resolution. Once the resolution increases and crosses a threshold, it is considered HD, and similarly once it decreases and crosses that same threshold, it is considered SD. This is my non-complicated view of it. |
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