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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router? in VOIP Tech Chat</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19782875</link>
<description></description>
<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:07:19 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:07:19 EDT</lastBuildDate>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19856484</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/198350"><b>joako</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DogFace05 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1299714"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  christcorp <A HREF="/useremail/u/395330"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>P.S. If you have a 2 LINE VOIP ADAPTER; like a PAP2; then the 1 IP address is running to voip circuits. In that case, you have to make sure the 2 different voip channels are on different ports. But individual adapters don't matter.<br></div>That's an all too common misconception. The reality is that Linksys/Sipura ATAs will happily run with both lines sharing the same port number. Try it and you'll see. I used to make the same assumption until low and behold, one day by accident I ended up with both lines of my adapter set to the same port, and to my surprise it was accepted just fine. As it turns out, the lines are identified and differentiated by their associated user id, so they do not each need to have their own distinct port number.<br> </div>Assuming the ATA is correctly configured AND the NAT router plays well with SIP you are totally correct. But if you have problems first thing I might suspect is the router.<br><small>--<br>09:F9:11:02:9D:74:E3:5B:D8:41:56:C5:63:56:88:C0</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19856484</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:25:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19817272</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/395330"><b>christcorp</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DogFace05 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1299714"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  christcorp <A HREF="/useremail/u/395330"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>P.S. If you have a 2 LINE VOIP ADAPTER; like a PAP2; then the 1 IP address is running to voip circuits. In that case, you have to make sure the 2 different voip channels are on different ports. But individual adapters don't matter.<br></div>That's an all too common misconception. The reality is that Linksys/Sipura ATAs will happily run with both lines sharing the same port number. Try it and you'll see. I used to make the same assumption until low and behold, one day by accident I ended up with both lines of my adapter set to the same port, and to my surprise it was accepted just fine. As it turns out, the lines are identified and differentiated by their associated user id, so they do not each need to have their own distinct port number.<br> </div>I agree that it will accept it fine. I have, through experience, been talking on 1 line when a call came in on the other line; so the caller said; and it wouldn't ring on my end. I experimented with it and it was a problem when 1 line was in use and the other tried to receive a call. Not saying that YMMV; just that it happened consistently on mine. Later... Mike....]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19817272</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:29:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19813329</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/826863"><b>DracoFelis</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  joako <A HREF="/useremail/u/198350"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Not sure about the Cisco but for the Linksys set the following, no need to forward ports. Everything else leave default except for whatever settings are needed for your ITSP.<br><br><textarea name="code" class="text" cols=50 rows=10>NAT Mapping Enable: YES&#012;NAT Keep Alive Enable:YES&#012;NAT Keep Alive Msg: $NOTIFY &#012;NAT Keep Alive Dest: $PROXY&#012; &#012;Handle VIA received: YES&#012;Handle VIA rport: YES&#012;Insert VIA received: YES&#012;Insert VIA rport: YES&#012;Substitute VIA Addr: NO&#012;Send Resp To Src Port: NO&#012;STUN Enable: NO&#012;STUN Test Enable: NO&#012;</textarea><!--end code block--></div>Actually I'm not sure your settings will do much of anything, as you are trying to tell the adapter to process the VIA's, in concert with your STUN and the remote end, but then you are telling the adapter not to use STUN.  i.e. I'm not sure you enabled much of anything, with the settings you chose...<br><br>And if you did enable STUN with the VIA settings set to "YES", you may experience problems.  In my experience, the 4 VIA handling settings, while great in theory, actually cause more incompatibilities than they solve, because they require the remote VoIP company to handle the extra work (and many VoIP companies don't enable those features on their servers).  Which is why I prefer the following (alternate) way of setting up adapters, shown below:<br><br><textarea name="code" class="text" cols=50 rows=10>Handle VIA received: NO&#012;Handle VIA rport: NO&#012;Insert VIA received: NO&#012;Insert VIA rport: NO&#012;Substitute VIA Addr: YES&#012;Send Resp To Src Port: YES&#012;STUN Enable: YES&#012;STUN Test Enable: NO&#012; &#012;STUN Server:  stun.fwdnet.net:3478&#012;(although you could easily replace with the STUN server of your choice, the one I listed is just one that will work)&#012;</textarea><!--end code block-->NOTE:  These STUN settings work most reliably when you are NOT using an "Outbound Proxy" (i.e. the "Outbound Proxy" field, not to be confused with the main "Proxy" field, is empty/blank).  However, in most cases, you really don't need the provider's "Outbound proxy" (even if/when they have one) when you have a proper STUN setup on your ATA.<br><br>NOTE:  Do NOT enable both the initial four "Handle/Insert" VIA settings and the two substitution settings at the same time.  They are either/or.  I find the two substitution settings to be generally much more reliable, but that's me.  In any event, enabling both will almost always cause the two methods to "fight", resulting in your phone calls not working.<br>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19813329</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:28:59 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19813224</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/826863"><b>DracoFelis</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  artisticcheese <A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Gizmo Project and VOicestick. <br>One ATA is SPA 2002 and another one CISCO IP Phone 7960<br> </div>I can't answer for the Cisco (as I don't know their setup), but for the SPA-2002 your client (ATA) port is set on: the "Line x" tab, field "SIP Port:", under the "SIP settings".  For example, the ATA line shown in the attached graphic is currently set to client (ATA) port 5064, but still using 5060 (the default) for the remote (proxy) end of the connection.<br><br>The way SPA-xxxx adapters work, the "SIP Port" field always represents just your LOCAL (your ATA) port number (NOT the remote proxy port number).  <br><br>If/when you want to setup the remote proxy (VoIP provider) port number (which usually you want to stay at the default of 5060), you do that (on an SPA-xxxx adapter) by including the number after a colon (:) in the normal "Proxy:" field.  If you don't provide a colon in the "Proxy", you will always get the default (remote end) port 5060.  However, if you fill in your proxy with "provider:port" (where provider is your VoIP provider, and port is the desired remote port number), you will use that port on the remote end.  For example, "Vbuzzer" (a company I used to use a while back) is one of the few VoIP providers that uses an alternate (remote end) proxy.  In the case of Vbuzzer, the remote port has to be 80.  So when I was using Vbuzzer as my provider, I filled in the proxy field with "vbuzzer.com:80".<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#000000 nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/19813224?c=1263901&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IxOTc4Mjg3NS54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="3437 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=82 SRC="/r0/download/1263901.thumb600~eec516a8040ed041a7072b3aba2cd39f/SIP-PORT.GIF/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19813224</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:13:16 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19812937</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/229804"><b>B</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jensjewels <A HREF="/useremail/u/1311489"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>This is a great thread. I for one am learning lots from it  :D<br> </div>Fooey!  That's exactly what I came in here to say!<br><br>:)<br><br>-- B<br><small>--<br>In a realm outside causality and function</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19812937</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:35:51 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19811776</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  joako <A HREF="/useremail/u/198350"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Not sure about the Cisco but for the Linksys set the following, no need to forward ports. Everything else leave default except for whatever settings are needed for your ITSP.<br><br><textarea name="code" class="text" cols=50 rows=10>NAT Mapping Enable: YES&#012;NAT Keep Alive Enable:YES&#012;NAT Keep Alive Msg: $NOTIFY &#012;NAT Keep Alive Dest: $PROXY&#012; &#012;Handle VIA received: YES&#012;Handle VIA rport: YES&#012;Insert VIA received: YES&#012;Insert VIA rport: YES&#012;Substitute VIA Addr: NO&#012;Send Resp To Src Port: NO&#012;STUN Enable: NO&#012;STUN Test Enable: NO&#012;</textarea><!--end code block--><br> </div>Interesting settins. On my linksys pretty much everything after NAT settings were not set. So all this "VIA" settings supposed to make working behind single IP address easier for NAT router, right?<br><br>The only issue why I started the thread is odd behaviour I was getting with new VOIP providers with 2 ATAs behind my router. If I don't use port forwarding then Gizmo Project account will not even ring when incoming call will come in. On the other hand if I do have static port forwarding set to Gizmo Project ATA then incoming calls to Linksys will come in, phone will ring but I would not hear the other party on first time they call, next time they will call and connection establish just fine so I assume mapping for RTP is not done correctly on first call becouse of some weirdness with all this NAT mapings.<br>I'll try settings below and see if I can use both VOIP adapaters without any port forwarding in place.<br>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19811776</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:19:09 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19811721</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1311489"><b>jensjewels</b></A> : This is a great thread. I for one am learning lots from it  :D]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19811721</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:05:13 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19811090</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1299714"><b>DogFace05</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  christcorp <A HREF="/useremail/u/395330"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>P.S. If you have a 2 LINE VOIP ADAPTER; like a PAP2; then the 1 IP address is running to voip circuits. In that case, you have to make sure the 2 different voip channels are on different ports. But individual adapters don't matter.<br></div>That's an all too common misconception. The reality is that Linksys/Sipura ATAs will happily run with both lines sharing the same port number. Try it and you'll see. I used to make the same assumption until low and behold, one day by accident I ended up with both lines of my adapter set to the same port, and to my surprise it was accepted just fine. As it turns out, the lines are identified and differentiated by their associated user id, so they do not each need to have their own distinct port number.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19811090</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:05:23 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810606</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/198350"><b>joako</b></A> : Not sure about the Cisco but for the Linksys set the following, no need to forward ports. Everything else leave default except for whatever settings are needed for your ITSP.<br><br><textarea name="code" class="text" cols=50 rows=10>NAT Mapping Enable: YES&#012;NAT Keep Alive Enable:YES&#012;NAT Keep Alive Msg: $NOTIFY &#012;NAT Keep Alive Dest: $PROXY&#012; &#012;Handle VIA received: YES&#012;Handle VIA rport: YES&#012;Insert VIA received: YES&#012;Insert VIA rport: YES&#012;Substitute VIA Addr: NO&#012;Send Resp To Src Port: NO&#012;STUN Enable: NO&#012;STUN Test Enable: NO&#012;</textarea><!--end code block--><br>Not related to NAT but for best audio quality also set:<br><br>RTP Packet Size: 0.020 (default is 0.030)<br><br><small>--<br>Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810606</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:41:40 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810431</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/395330"><b>christcorp</b></A> : I tried reading all the responses and got a little side tracked on some of the responses. So, if my answer is a repeat of someone else's, then my apologies.<br><br>You can have as many ATAs behing a NAT router as you want as long as you have enough bandwidth to handle it. Because the ISP and backhaul doesn't QOS yours or anyone else's traffic on the internet, a good NAT router with QOS will help at least with the upload. This is only important if you plan on using 3 or 4 voip adapters at the same time making calls; or if you also plan on surfing a lot while making all these calls.<br><br>But, as far as connecting ATA's and having them work, go until your heart is content. Or until you run out of IP addresses in your subnet. (Basically, 254 devices). As far as PORTS go, that doesn't matter at all. You could have 10 Voip adapters on your router and they can all use port 5060 and there wouldn't be any problems. Why? Because when the traffic comes in and out of your router, it isn't based on the port primarily. It's based on the IP address. Once it hits the IP address, THEN it worries about the port.<br><br>I.e. 4 different voip adapters. IP addresses of 192.168.1.101 through 192.168.1.104. Each of them can use port 5060 for SIP signaling because when the packet comes in, it's looking for the IP address. Once it finds that, it opens the port. Each IP address in IPv4 uses 65535 ports. It doesn't matter if it's the same port number. Imagine you lived in APARTMENT #4. I ALSO live in APARTMENT #4. My I live at 100 Main St. and you live on 200 Elm st. The APARTMENT number is the port, but the street address is the IP address.<br><br>Hope this helps. If I just repeated myself from what someone else said, I apologize. It's been a long night. Later... Mike.... <br><br>P.S. If you have a 2 LINE VOIP ADAPTER; like a PAP2; then the 1 IP address is running to voip circuits. In that case, you have to make sure the 2 different voip channels are on different ports. But individual adapters don't matter.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810431</guid>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:07:22 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19808961</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : Gizmo Project and VOicestick. <br>One ATA is SPA 2002 and another one CISCO IP Phone 7960]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19808961</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:15:28 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19808059</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/198350"><b>joako</b></A> : What provider are you connecting to and what VoIP ATA are you using?<br><small>--<br>Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19808059</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:06:39 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19805891</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : ActionTec (provided by Verizon for FIOS)]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19805891</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:28:39 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19805864</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/224196"><b>priller</b></A> : <br>BTW ... What router are you using?  ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19805864</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:26:20 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804681</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  jensjewels <A HREF="/useremail/u/1311489"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Use the SIP Port field.<br> </div>THe only SIP port field refers to server port I shall be connecting to not client port.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804681</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:27:17 EDT</pubDate>
</item>

<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804607</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1311489"><b>jensjewels</b></A> : Use the SIP Port field.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804607</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:13:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804335</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : How do I setup port on my end on ATA? The only fields I have is registar's address and protocol and port number. Where do I put custom client port on my end? I understand this is ATA specific but terminology will be used for such field in ATA configuration?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804335</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:22:48 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19802674</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/826863"><b>DracoFelis</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  artisticcheese <A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>So how does this work. I have 2 VOIP providers which expect me to register with their servers at UDP 5060. I have 1 public dynamic IP on router which I can do port forwarding with. What exactly I'm supposed to enter on ATAs for those 2 different VOIP providers for them to use a different port?<br> </div>You are forgetting that the port on your end doesn't have to be the same number as the port on their end.  And almost all VoIP providers will let you use any port you like on YOUR END, provided the port on THEIR END is UDP 5060.  <br><br><b>So here's how I would set it up:</b><br><br>1) Set one ATA to using UDP 5060 on your end, and register with the provider using UDP 5060 on their end.<br><br>2) Setup the 2nd ATA to using UDP 506<b>2</b> on <b>your end</b>, but still register with the VoIP provider (for your 2nd ATA) on their UDP port 5060.<br><br>3) Setup port forwarding on your router, to send packets to YOUR UDP port 5060 (no matter what the source port is on their end) to the 1st VoIP adapter.  Likewise, setup port forwarding for UDP packets sent to your port 5062 to your 2nd ATA.<br><br>Voila, both providers should be happy with your registrations, as both adapters are sending to (on their end) UDP port 5060.  But because one of the adapters is set to port 5062 (on your end), replies for that adapter (from the remote end) will also be sent to UDP 5062.  As a result, all the ports are consistent in this situation, and the port forwarding assures that your router shouldn't block any inbound calls by closing the SIP ports.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19802674</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:08:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19802499</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  DracoFelis <A HREF="/useremail/u/826863"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> However, you always have the option to bypass these limits/issues by putting each VoIP adapter on different ports, and then telling your router to forward specific ports to specific VoIP adapter.  Because in that case, which ports you use will uniquely identify the adapter to send the traffic to.<br> </div>So how does this work. I have 2 VOIP providers which expect me to register with their servers at UDP 5060. I have 1 public dynamic IP on router which I can do port forwarding with. What exactly I'm supposed to enter on ATAs for those 2 different VOIP providers for them to use a different port?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19802499</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:40:32 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19802047</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/826863"><b>DracoFelis</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  joako <A HREF="/useremail/u/198350"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Simple answer if you have a decent NAT router it will just work.</div>That might be true in the simple/routine case where you only get inbound calls from sites you are "registered" with.  Because in that case, the router could (if it is decent/smart enough) relate which VoIP proxy (or proxies) each adapter is "registered" with, and redirect replies to the proper adapter.  And since that case is the most common (for example, it's what you normally get with pre-provisioned adapters from VoIP providers), many people (apparently including you) might find that they are OK with multiple VoIP adapters on "the same ports" behind their router.<br><br>However, when you get past the simple VoIP case, you find that there are many options where you can receive calls from places where you are NOT "registered".  For example, many free VoIP adapter to VoIP adapter "calls" fit in this latter category.  And once you start accepting calls from places you aren't first "registered" with (and this can sometimes even happen when using some free VoIP services/proxies, due to how they may redirect the call to you) your router loses the "registration" step details to keep the sessions/adapters separate.  And when that happens, you pretty much have to setup "port forwarding" on your router, and put each adapter on different ports.  Because without the "registration" queues to the router, you need the different ports to keep the traffic separate (i.e. know which incoming VoIP traffic goes to which adapter).<br><br><b>Bottom line:</b><br>You can sometimes get away with putting all your VoIP adapters on the same SIP (and RTP) ports, and let your router sort it out.  But for that to work, you both have to have a router that is good enough, and have to limit what you do with your VoIP (although those limits are consistent with how many use their VoIP).  However, you always have the option to bypass these limits/issues by putting each VoIP adapter on different ports, and then telling your router to forward specific ports to specific VoIP adapter.  Because in that case, which ports you use will uniquely identify the adapter to send the traffic to.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:30:44 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19801587</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/198350"><b>joako</b></A> : Simple answer if you have a decent NAT router it will just work.<br><br>I've done as many as 10 SIP phones behind the same NAT talking to the same Asterisk and it just works. The first peer registers on port 5060 and the others at random ports like 1025, 1026, etc. I guess it's the router doing the translation, but I never bothered to figure out the nitty-gritty since it "just works"<br><br>I have had problems with the Bellsouth provided ADSL router you have to make sure to fully disable the firewall or else it really breaks stuff. But using the Linksys WRT54GS it just works. <br><small>--<br>Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19801587</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:24:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793743</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/807040"><b>JTS33</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  priller <A HREF="/useremail/u/224196"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Your VoIP provider's SIP proxy knows the address and port you registered from, so it just sends the INVITE to you on that port.<br><br>In my example above, the INVITE comes to me on 1061 ... is translated back to 5060 and is passed along to the ATA.<br><br>--<br><br>Please don't screw with port forwarding. If for some reason you have a problem receiving calls, the problem is that the NAT translation in your router is timing out.  This is resolved by adjusting the timeout in your router. If that isn't an option, then request that your provider increase the registration interval or enable NAT keepalive on the ATA.<br> </div>Router: Airlink101 AR430W SuperG Wireless Router<br>ATA: Linksys PAP2 v1 flashed to SPA1001, STUN enabled.<br><br>My Internet connection is Dynamic IP, and I noticed when my ISP assigns me a new IP address, registration to GizmoProject would fail and I would not get any incoming calls.<br><br>Using the "DHCP Release" and "DHCP Renew" functions in the router to force a new dynamic IP, I spent a day messing around with the ATA settings, and registration would still always fail when my WAN IP changed.<br><br>Then I figured out that if I rebooted the router after the WAN IP address changed, GizmoProject registration did not fail.<br><br>Just curious if there is a technical explanation of what may be causing this?<br><br>Is it partially due to something on GizmoProject's end, or is it solely my router?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793743</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:25:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784994</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1003137"><b>garys_2k</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  artisticcheese <A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br><div class="bquote"><small>said by  garys_2k <A HREF="/useremail/u/1003137"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A>  :</small><br><br>Another thing to keep in mind is that all SIP traffic, and the RTP traffic that the SIP traffic sets up, originates FROM the ATA which is behind the router. Port forwarding should not be needed for any ATA. It's the router's job to keep track of which internal IP sent a request out to which external IP and route the reply back -- it is the essence of NAT.<br><br>You can have multiple PCs browsing the same web page and the router will keep track of which machine just asked for the page to be refreshed, it's no different. ATA traffic is UDP but those incoming packets are not unsolicited.<br> </div>How this will work for incoming call?<br> </div>Here's how it works...<br><br>Your ATA sends the SIP server an "I'm here" message, the SIP server sends back a "Got it, thanks" reply. This happens regularly, and it should happen regularly enough to keep your router's tables current. My Vonage ATA does this 3 to 4 times per minute, plenty often enough.<br><br>When a call comes in the SIP server (which is still current to the ATA in the table) sends the ATA a message "Hey, go take a call at this IP address." The ATA sends back an OK to the SIP server and then initiates contact to the RTP server's address that the SIP server delivered to it.<br><br>That goes something like, ATA: "Hey, RTP server, heard you have a call for me -- here's my phone number." The RTP server sends back "Yeah, let's get it going. Start the bell ringing and here's the caller ID info to throw on the wire."<br><br>The call proceeds entirely on the RTP server but communication with the SIP server is maintained. Once the call is over the ATA and the SIP server put things away and the regular traffic starts over again.<br><br>As for handling different ATAs, the router's NAT table remembers which internal IP is associated with which SIP and RTP traffic. All of that traffic is initiated OUT from inside the LAN so the router, if it doesn't get mixed up (which some cheap ones can, especially if they're handling tons of addresses as can happen with file sharing) sends the packets to the proper IP on both sides.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784994</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:24:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784625</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : I hear first call ringing but when I pick up I hear dead air. What most likely cause for this? I have 2 different VOIP Providers behind router and both of those use SIP UDP 5060. ]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784625</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:19:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784607</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/224196"><b>priller</b></A> : Your VoIP provider's SIP proxy knows the address and port you registered from, so it just sends the INVITE to you on that port.<br><br>In my example above, the INVITE comes to me on 1061 ... is translated back to 5060 and is passed along to the ATA.<br><br>--<br><br>Please don't screw with port forwarding. If for some reason you have a problem receiving calls, the problem is that the NAT translation in your router is timing out.  This is resolved by adjusting the timeout in your router. If that isn't an option, then request that your provider increase the registration interval or enable NAT keepalive on the ATA.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784607</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:15:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784457</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  garys_2k <A HREF="/useremail/u/1003137"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>Another thing to keep in mind is that all SIP traffic, and the RTP traffic that the SIP traffic sets up, originates FROM the ATA which is behind the router. Port forwarding should not be needed for any ATA. It's the router's job to keep track of which internal IP sent a request out to which external IP and route the reply back -- it is the essence of NAT.<br><br>You can have multiple PCs browsing the same web page and the router will keep track of which machine just asked for the page to be refreshed, it's no different. ATA traffic is UDP but those incoming packets are not unsolicited.<br> </div>How this will work for incoming call?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784457</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:51:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784314</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1003137"><b>garys_2k</b></A> : Another thing to keep in mind is that all SIP traffic, and the RTP traffic that the SIP traffic sets up, originates FROM the ATA which is behind the router. Port forwarding should not be needed for any ATA. It's the router's job to keep track of which internal IP sent a request out to which external IP and route the reply back -- it is the essence of NAT.<br><br>You can have multiple PCs browsing the same web page and the router will keep track of which machine just asked for the page to be refreshed, it's no different. ATA traffic is UDP but those incoming packets are not unsolicited.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19784314</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 21:27:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783378</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/224196"><b>priller</b></A> : So, to demonstrate this in action.  Here is a capture of the same session captured on both the inside interface and the outside interface.  Note that port 5060 has been changed to 1061.<br><br> <div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#000000 nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/19783378?c=1262163&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IxOTc4Mjg3NS54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="15413 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=56 SRC="/r0/download/1262163.thumb600~0b4012638f0a42ee59adb9d51b83f056/inside.jpg/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A><br>Packet on the inside</TD></TR><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#000000 nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/19783378?c=1262164&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IxOTc4Mjg3NS54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="13597 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=44 SRC="/r0/download/1262164.thumb600~a8d51143b2a933ea5505143f1c1548e9/outside2.jpg/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A><br>Packet after PAT</TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783378</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:43:32 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783260</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/224196"><b>priller</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  Cal96 <A HREF="/useremail/u/1104634"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br> (remembering to forward those ports in your router config).  <br> </div>That is what causes people grief.  You will never ever have to do that with a decent router.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783260</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:26:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783223</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1104634"><b>Cal96</b></A> : A while back, I had Vonage and Asterisk at the same time.  The Vonage PAP2 was locked down to UDP port 5060.  So I configured Asterisk SIP to listen on 5070 and a different RTP range.  This worked fine for all the providers I used (Telasip, Vbuzzer, FWD, Sipdiscount, Les.net, etc.)  My point is that most providers don't care which ports your end is using.  The SIP protocol handles all the details.<br><br>In your case if one of the ATAs is unlocked, just change the SIP port and RTP range yourself (remembering to forward those ports in your router config).  Couldn't hurt to try.<br><br>If not, maybe one of the providers will change your ATA's config to use a different SIP port / RTP range.  Seems reasonable to me.  Give 'em a call.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783223</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:20:52 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783155</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/224196"><b>priller</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  artisticcheese <A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>I thought UDP are packets are sent and received on the same port number so on router side it shall be receiving also on 5060?<br> </div>That's what you see on the "inside" of your network.  But, the port is being changed before it leaves the WAN interface. <br><br>The combination of the IP address being translated, as well as the port, is what allows you to have multiple ATA's register to the same VoIP provider and not get confused.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783155</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:10:04 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783134</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : I thought UDP are packets are sent and received on the same port number so on router side it shall be receiving also on 5060?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783134</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:06:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783081</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/224196"><b>priller</b></A> : A piece you're missing is that it's really PAT.  When the translation is done, your return port number is also changed.<br><br>For example, leaving the ATA the UDP SIP packet connects to the host on 5060 and says talk back to me on 5060. Now when the xlate is done, the return port is changed. Here's the connection table for one of my ATA's ....<br><br>"UDP PAT from inside:zoom5801/5060 to outside:69.255.118.xxx/1061"<br><br>... so the VoIP provider is actually talking back to me on 1061.  When the packet passes back through the PAT process, that gets changed back to 5060.<br><br>The combination of the IP address and the port number being changed is why you can have multiple ATA's registered to the same provider ... all on what you "think" is 5060.  But the router is smarter than we are.  ;)<br><br>The translation table should never get confused.  If it does, get a new router.<br><br>FWIW, I've got 5 VoIP lines living well together.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19783081</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:58:45 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782875</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/826863"><b>DracoFelis</b></A> : <div class="bquote"><small>said by  artisticcheese <A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><IMG SRC="http://i.dslr.net/bb/profile.gif" ALT="See Profile" BORDER=0 WIDTH=16 HEIGHT=11></A> :</small><br><br>How on IP level it'll work if you have several ATA on internal network with different VOIP providers using the same SIP port number.</div>If you make sure both the SIP (call setup) and RTP (voice) ports are different, than it works quite well.  Because in that case, you use the ports to uniquely identify the adapter.<br><br>OTOH you asked about the same ports being used.  In that case, it's much more of a YMMV thing.  Because when you are using the same ports, the ONLY THING that is keeping the mapping (of port to adapter) correct is the NAT tables in your router (in much the same way that the NAT tables in your router allow multiple PCs on your LAN to web browse on port 80 at the same time).  This will sometimes work, but there is many things that could go wrong (which is why I have my multiple adapters on different ports).  <br><br>For example, if you have each adapter (that is using the same ports) registered with a different provider, the NAT tables (in your router) may know (if it's a smart enough router) that inbound calls from the IP address of provider x go to the adapter that is "registered" with provider x.  But how is the router supposed to know which adapter to send a call to, when that "provider" is registered on multiple adapters behind your LAN?  And, even worse, how is your router supposed to know which adapter to send an anonymous (call from a non-registered party) call supposed to (in the case of different ports, the port numbers keep this straight, but the NAT tables in the router don't have such queues when different port numbers are used).<br><br>Bottom line:<br>I personally prefer to keep my VoIP adapters (behind my home NAT router, and a single public IP) all on different ports, to avoid problems.  Yes, I realize that things might work OK with just my router's NAT, but that would still be "asking for trouble".  But by keeping the ports (I use for VoIP) unique, I keep things unambiguous (and therefore avoid possible headaches as to which adapter which signal is for).]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782875</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:28:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>How multiple ATAs can be behind same NAT router?</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782612</link>
<description><![CDATA[<A HREF="/useremail/u/1106467"><b>artisticcheese</b></A> : Hi,<br><br>I have general question. How on IP level it'll work if you have several ATA on internal network with different VOIP providers using the same SIP port number. How forwarding will work in this case since incoming packets will be arriving to the same port for both providers (UDP 560) and how router will know which internal host it shall be forwarded to?]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19782612</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:50:59 EDT</pubDate>
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