Re: Just Die in

Re: Just Die in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19792499 en Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:41:36 EDT Sat, 30 Aug 2008 11:41:36 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804995 Kearnstd :

said by jc100

:

Texan

And look at ITUNES it's one of the most popular and lucrative pay per mp3 sites around. There are others of course, that do just fine and dandy. Simply because not everyone buys them, doesn't mean many haven't followed the legal path. Therefore, you make a broad generalization that assumes this man is in the majority. I can't say if that's true or not as there has been no research done to show how many people buy vs pirate. Still, these 99 cent mp3 stores must be doing damn well. They are still in business aren't they? Itunes seems to be making record profits, too.

and oddly enough some record companies wanted to pull out of itunes because they think 99 cents isnt expensive enough even though they get the lion's share of that 99c.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19804995 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:26:04 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19800545 dentman42 :

said by NormanS

:

Unfortunately. Some changes just shouldn't happen. What really grates on my ears is incorrect pronoun order, and case mismatch. I can't say how often I here people say, "I and him went to the game".

Everybudy knowz its "Me an him went to tha game"... :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19800545 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:09:15 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19800380 DSL Oberst : Harder than you think.
In criminal trials, proving intent is important because the litmus test is "beyond reasonable doubt". If you can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, no crime has been committed. That was the problem with OJ's first trial - the prosecution was such a mess tha they couldn't prove beyond reasonable doubt.

In civil cases, intent is not required. The plaintiff piles up their evidence, the defendant piles up THEIR evidence, and the judge/jury sees who has more. Beyond reasonable doubt is not required, nor is intent; the burden of proof is instead 'preponderance of evidence'.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19800380 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:48:43 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797758 NormanS :

said by moonpuppy

:

It is gaining acceptance.

You would be surprised what started out as "non-words" to suddenly appear in Webster's. ;)

Unfortunately. Some changes just shouldn't happen. What really grates on my ears is incorrect pronoun order, and case mismatch. I can't say how often I here people say, "I and him went to the game". "I" should always come after any other pronoun, and "I" (subjective case) should not be used in conjunction with "him" (objective case).

Oh, and "ran" for "run" is another pet peeve. And "should of" instead of "should've".

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797758 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:45:43 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797706 MisterMarcus : w00t! :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797706 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:36:35 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797504 moonpuppy :

said by gaforces

:

I prefer lossless audio files when I rip my Cd's.
In the future, I plan on putting all my media files on a network drive so I can access them from my LAN.

AFAIK I am not infringing and will not be as long as I don't make them available from the WAN for anybody but myself.

Lossless or MP3 formats, it doesn't matter to the RIAA. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797504 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:57:01 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797472 moonpuppy :

said by jjeffeory

:

moonpuppy,

I'm on your side on this issue. Please don't use "irregardless" as a word. It's not a word.

It is gaining acceptance.

You would be surprised what started out as "non-words" to suddenly appear in Webster's. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19797472 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:49:30 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19796139 KoolMoe : --edit; no need to echo the above--]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19796139 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:54:03 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19796006 NormanS :

said by tc1uscg

:

All they gotta do is show INTENT. Same argument used many times in court.. "assault with INTENT to kill". "Possession with INTENT to distribute".

In conjunction with an overt act, you can usually prove intent. In the absence of an overt act, you can't prove intent.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19796006 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:08:45 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795998 NormanS :

said by GlobalMind

:

The difference here is that I think what they're saying is he also was sharing that folder on some P2P app. I think that's a different story. That's probably enough to claim intent to distribute, which is a problem. Somehow they got a list of what he was sharing. So either it was available publically or they hacked his PC or network.

Ah. So if I walk around town with a pistol openly carried on my hip, you know that I have the intent to use it on somebody. That is actually legal, under state law in California; open carry. Might be different under local laws, but that is the state law.

"Intent" is damned hard to prove, absent an overt act.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795998 Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:06:54 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795726 tc1uscg :

said by karlmarx

:

No, the RIAA is trying to say that by DOING it, he committed a crime. THERE IS NO CRIME IF NO-ONE DOWNLOADS IT. That is what the EFF is saying.

The RIAA DIDN'T download any songs from him, they just got a list of songs. He OWNED the SONGS. If the RIAA had gotten PROOF that other people were downloading, then they would have a case. As it is, they are attempting to argue the mere FACT that he ripped the songs to his hard drive, he committed a crime. No proof of downloads, no foul. Simple as that.

All they gotta do is show INTENT. Same argument used many times in court.. "assault with INTENT to kill". "Possession with INTENT to distribute". The argument would be something like "John Doe had 200gb's of music on his PC in a SHARED folder and running some P2P software". Don't think it would be too hard to provde intent but I hope he gets some judge with a pair that tells the RIAA to FO.. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795726 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:57:32 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795334 jjeffeory : moonpuppy,

I'm on your side on this issue. Please don't use "irregardless" as a word. It's not a word.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795334 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:44:53 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795276 jjeffeory : HAHAH,

Cabal... Nice try! Nice 'twist'on words.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795276 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:35:01 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795232 jjeffeory : Piracy isn't the problem. Their music sucking is the problem! Frankly, I don't listen to much music anymore.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19795232 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:28:08 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19794914 elios : if that is true the only way the RIAA could see that folder from out side this guys networks is to use some kind of backdoor or rootkit

and if that is true the RIAA could be in some real hot water
copyright infringement is civil law but IF that is what the RIAA did there is real jail time for them]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19794914 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:34:44 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19794129 GlobalMind :

said by karlmarx

:

The RIAA DIDN'T download any songs from him, they just got a list of songs.

Well....I agree with the EFF's point that the act of placing the ripped MP3s into a "shared folder" isn't infringement in any way. My rationale is that I could have a "shared folder" on my local home network and not have it be infringement.

The difference here is that I think what they're saying is he also was sharing that folder on some P2P app. I think that's a different story. That's probably enough to claim intent to distribute, which is a problem. Somehow they got a list of what he was sharing. So either it was available publically or they hacked his PC or network.

said by karlmarx

:

He OWNED the SONGS.

Actually no he doesn't. You never do. He owns the physical media (the CD), not the content on it. Thus you don't have rights to distribute the tunes, which really is in my view the RIAA's one and only valid argument.
--
TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19794129 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:34:53 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19794008 joako :

said by Cabal

:

I hate to bring facts into this discussion, but...

The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story.

Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it?

Actually he probably downloaded a file sharing program, clicked next next next next through the entire setup process in turn automatically sharing all the music files on his computer. He probably also set (the default option) the filesharing program to load automatically on Windows startup.
--
Am Heimcomputer sitz' ich hier, und programmier' die Zukunft mir]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19794008 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:14:32 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793678 NoOneButMe : you guys know if the RIAA wins this thay can sue you for just copying your cd to mp3 even without a share ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793678 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:11:46 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793629 gaforces : I prefer lossless audio files when I rip my Cd's.
In the future, I plan on putting all my media files on a network drive so I can access them from my LAN.

AFAIK I am not infringing and will not be as long as I don't make them available from the WAN for anybody but myself.

The EFF is right on this one, they have to have proven infringement to prosecute the guy.
The RIAA could have just gotten hold of a file list which are common on servers, that doesn't mean you can actually download them.
--
‘Do ye, quieting in your bosoms your strong hearts,
Who of many good things have had your fill even to surfeit,
With what is moderate nourish your mighty desire; for neither will
We yield, nor shall you have all else as you wish.’
Solon]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793629 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:02:57 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793600 NoOneButMe : one other thang here is just becuse a file is in your shared folder dont meen it was shared he could have just been useing it a play list editor and even then did he have the app setup for that folder ? .... the fact it was in a shared folder meens nothing becuse you can have shared folders that no one can get to heh ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793600 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:57:08 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793591 anon : I could be wrong, and maybe i am, but i thought that some sharing programs before would auto scan for music or whatever for your share folder, or atleast ask you where you kept it, and then used whatever was in there to share by default?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793591 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:55:19 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793432 ff1324 :

said by texans20

:

You don't have to commit a crime to be accused of it. Kids are arrested and prosecuted for "hit lists" in schools. If you posses a bunch of materials to make a bomb, you could be prosecuted for a terrorism attack. If you own guns, ski masks, and pictures of a bank you could be tried for attempted bank robbery. The term attempted murder mean anything? Planning to kill a person can have the same sentence as actually killing a person, you know.

There are many examples in criminal law of people punished for not committing a crime. In this case, the guy attempted to violate copyright law.

I don't like the RIAA, but to act like this guy is innocent is a joke. If he is smart enough to rip CDs, he knew what he was doing.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt

What should he be charged with in a criminal court? Possession of music? Does having a computer, MP3 files, an internet connection, CD's, and a file sharing program demonstrate that you are intending to infringe on someone's copyright?

If that's the case, lock me up. I got it all. I don't share music nor do I download music. But I meet your litmus test for handing over my life's savings to the RIAA.

Please, don't ever run for congress.
--
What do you want to do to the world, Ronald?
Burn it all.
See you next year, Ronald.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793432 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 17:27:10 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793301 texans20 :

said by dvd536

said by Cabal

:

The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story.

Well then how did the RIAA find out he was sharing music?
--
"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793301 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:58:13 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793238 dvd536 :

said by Cabal

:

The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story.

Actually they were in the \shared docs folder. that isn't the same as a sharing folder in kazaa.
only way they could have been accessed by the outside is the file sharing ports and every isp blocks those.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793238 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:45:11 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793176 moonpuppy :

said by Cabal

And here are some more facts for you.

Part of what the RIAA is saying that the mere act of converting an audio CD to MP3 format is illegal irregardless of whether or not he shares it. That is the main part of the argument.

In essence, it would make nearly every single MP3 player, including iPods, illegal unless all your music was bought online. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19793176 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:32:07 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792971 DownTheShore :

said by texans20

:

All the major record companies have now opened up their libraries to non-DRM sales. Now it's up to us, the consumer, to start buying music.

First we said CDs are overpriced, sell them online cheap, so they did. Then we said DRM sucks, sell your music DRM free, so they did. I hope to see less pirating and more purchasing.

I've always bought CD's in the past, but I've slacked off in recent years because of the costs, and frankly because my rule of thumb for LP's and CD's has always been that there have to be at least three songs on the disc (whatever its shape) that I want to have. That hasn't happened much lately - too many one-hit wonders out there now or albums of songs that all sound basically the same.

I've bought from iTunes, but they annoy me with their rules. I've started buying DRM-free MP3 downloads from Amazon instead. It's cheaper than buying the CD, no gasoline costs getting to the store, I can burn the music as I like, and I get the immediate gratification of having the music and not worrying about the damn RIAA.
--
Life is simply one damned thing after another.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792971 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:49:40 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792858 texans20 :

said by tcp1

said by Cabal

You do know just because you say "end of story" it doesn't actually mean that's the end of the story, right?

said by Cabal

:

Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it?

No, but in our legal system, that is the only way you can be prosecuted for it. You know, with actual evidence.

You don't have to commit a crime to be accused of it. Kids are arrested and prosecuted for "hit lists" in schools. If you posses a bunch of materials to make a bomb, you could be prosecuted for a terrorism attack. If you own guns, ski masks, and pictures of a bank you could be tried for attempted bank robbery. The term attempted murder mean anything? Planning to kill a person can have the same sentence as actually killing a person, you know.

There are many examples in criminal law of people punished for not committing a crime. In this case, the guy attempted to violate copyright law.

I don't like the RIAA, but to act like this guy is innocent is a joke. If he is smart enough to rip CDs, he knew what he was doing.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempt
--
"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792858 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:26:14 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792660 Voyager2K2 :

said by Cabal

Right you are. The story was mis-reported.
However there is a discussion over at EFF in regards to ripping CDs you legally own.

»www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/01/ar···d-or-not]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792660 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:42:56 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792617 tcp1 :

said by Cabal

You do know just because you say "end of story" it doesn't actually mean that's the end of the story, right?

said by Cabal

:

Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it?

No, but in our legal system, that is the only way you can be prosecuted for it. You know, with actual evidence.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792617 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:35:10 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792499 karlmarx : No, the RIAA is trying to say that by DOING it, he committed a crime. THERE IS NO CRIME IF NO-ONE DOWNLOADS IT. That is what the EFF is saying.

The RIAA DIDN'T download any songs from him, they just got a list of songs. He OWNED the SONGS. If the RIAA had gotten PROOF that other people were downloading, then they would have a case. As it is, they are attempting to argue the mere FACT that he ripped the songs to his hard drive, he committed a crime. No proof of downloads, no foul. Simple as that.
--
Relgion and Politics don't mix! I have firsthand knowledge of what happens when ANY religion mixes with ANY politics.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792499 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:08:56 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792481 Cogdis :

said by PhoenixDown

:

Convenience will be the deciding factor - if the music companies make the albums cheaper and easy to buy, then they will sway more people away from piracy

Amazon has an mp3 store thats cheap and drm free (89 cents for some songs and I just bought an album for $8.99). I like to just search, click and download so that's what I'll be using from now on. If I can't find it there then I won't buy it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792481 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:03:31 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792434 Cabal : I hate to bring facts into this discussion, but...

The guy took CDs he bought. He ripped them to mp3. He then loaded those mp3s into some file-sharing program for the purpose of distributing them. End of story.

Is the EFF really trying to say that it's ok to try to commit copyright infringement, but only wrong if you get caught completing it?
--
Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792434 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:52:12 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792090 Doctor Four : At least one of the Big 4 (EMI) has said they are going
to sever all ties with the RIAA and their international
equivalent, the IFPI (International Federation of the
Phonographic Industry).
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792090 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:39:53 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792074 jc100 : Texan

And look at ITUNES it's one of the most popular and lucrative pay per mp3 sites around. There are others of course, that do just fine and dandy. Simply because not everyone buys them, doesn't mean many haven't followed the legal path. Therefore, you make a broad generalization that assumes this man is in the majority. I can't say if that's true or not as there has been no research done to show how many people buy vs pirate. Still, these 99 cent mp3 stores must be doing damn well. They are still in business aren't they? Itunes seems to be making record profits, too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19792074 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:36:09 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791987 PhoenixDown : I think the moment of opportunity passed...

People want cheap and easy access to music and when the music companies failed to deliver, they turned to file sharing.

So instead of asking people to go from a $14 - $20 CD to a $10 - $15 DRM Free MP3 album, you are now asking them to go from FREE to a a $15 DRM free MP3 album and most people will balk at it.

Convenience will be the deciding factor - if the music companies make the albums cheaper and easy to buy, then they will sway more people away from piracy but giving us what we already asked for, and found, is not going to be enough at this point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791987 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:19:02 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791912 texans20 : They just might. They keep settling out of court for $2500 or so but that does not recoup their legal fees, so for every case they have they end up loosing money. The record companies are getting tighter on cash as CD sales keep falling and since the RIAA isn't doing much for them I suspect to see some more record companies drop their membership.

All the major record companies have now opened up their libraries to non-DRM sales. Now it's up to us, the consumer, to start buying music.

First we said CDs are overpriced, sell them online cheap, so they did. Then we said DRM sucks, sell your music DRM free, so they did. I hope to see less pirating and more purchasing.
--
"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies." Thomas Jefferson]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791912 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:03:46 EDT Re: Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791906 Mactron : Their business model is dead. ;)
They just don't want to believe it or move on to the future.
So they just keep doing the same thing over and over (suing) and failing.
--
If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791906 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:02:16 EDT Just Die http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791868 ztmike : The RIAA should just DIE already. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19791868 Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:55:35 EDT