Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
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|  Worldwide?
10 million worldwide?
That's .0015% of the worldwide population .... and torrents are killing the Music and Movie industry?
I think that's proof that crappy music, crappy movies, and a crappy distribution model are killing their respective industries, not bittorrent. |
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rudnicke
Premium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL | I agree. Hollywood has been pumping out junk lately. The music just hurts my ears, and most of the movies are just boring. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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Grand Rapids, MI
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| reply to Matt
said by Matt  :10 million worldwide? That's .0015% of the worldwide population .... and torrents are killing the Music and Movie industry? I think that's proof that crappy music, crappy movies, and a crappy distribution model are killing their respective industries, not bittorrent. Killing? No.
The RIAA and MPAA blows things out of proportion thats for sure. Seeing their "losses" rack up into the billions of dollars is just outlandish.
Hurting? Yes.
Only a moron would say there is no negative effect from software/music/movie sales from torrents. I personally know a lot of people who use torrents for all their software, music, and movies and don't pay a dime for this material. Other than the burnable DVD to put it all on.
Somewhere in between lies the truth. |
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | reply to rudnicke
Normally I'd laugh and ask "grandpa if he needs some more salve for his ears to soothe that new-fangled music" but the sad fact is that not even kids today like todays music. |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
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join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
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| reply to Matt
said by Matt :I think that's proof that crappy music, crappy movies, and a crappy distribution model are killing their respective industries, not bittorrent. Since when do the **AAs ever allow ::REALITY:: to interfere with the fairy tales that "pirates" are the cause of their industry's death spiral? |
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Dogfather
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1 edit | reply to Nightfall
According to NBC/Universal they're claiming "record performance" and near 50% profit margins.
Doesn't seem like "hurting" to me, or them, when they're talking to their investors.
Pirating only hurts sales IF the pirate would have otherwise purchased the goods had the pirated version not been available. What I seem commonly is that the person wouldn't have bought it under any circumstance, thus it doesn't cost them anything. |
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Bill03
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join:2007-11-26
Richmond, VA
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| reply to Nightfall
Here's a little known fact the **AA isn't throwing out there. Please correct my memory if you find my numbers from memory aren't correct.
AC/DC released "Back in Black" in 1980. The 2006 catalog sales number was 400,000 copies sold. Beating out Britney Spears' latest effort if I remember her sales correctly. Doesn't seem like that old piracy is hurting catalog sales all that much. Or maybe AC/DC fans don't use the internet.  |
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Math Pirate
@bell.ca
| reply to Matt
said by Matt :10 million worldwide? That's .0015% of the worldwide population .... and torrents are killing the Music and Movie industry? I think that's proof that crappy music, crappy movies, and a crappy distribution model are killing their respective industries, not bittorrent. It's more like. 0.15% of the worlds population, but point still well taken. |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| reply to rudnicke
said by rudnicke :I agree. Hollywood has been pumping out junk lately. The music just hurts my ears, and most of the movies are just boring. Lately = past 20-25 years? If so then I agree.
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Matt
Take me down to the paradise city
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join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
| reply to Math Pirate
said by Math Pirate :said by Matt :10 million worldwide? That's .0015% of the worldwide population .... and torrents are killing the Music and Movie industry? I think that's proof that crappy music, crappy movies, and a crappy distribution model are killing their respective industries, not bittorrent. It's more like. 0.15% of the worlds population, but point still well taken. Doh, forgot to multiply the result by 100. Thanks. |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
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| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :Pirating only hurts sales IF the pirate would have otherwise purchased the goods had the pirated version not been available. What I seem commonly is that the person wouldn't have bought it under any circumstance, thus it doesn't cost them anything. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that statement. In my opinion, if you are going to use the product, then you should buy it. Especially if you are using it for months and months on end. I personally know of 8 people who use Adobe Photoshop CS3 to do graphic editing. All of them have pirated it. A couple use it for their job since they take digital photographs for a profit. Now, if it wasn't available for pirating, would they have bought it? Well, if they are using the product for months and months on end, thats enough to tell me it has value to them.
All Intellectual Property has some kind of value to it to some people. You are right, most of the photography work I do people are not going to want to pay for. However, some companies do find a value in the service I provide and pay me for it. If my work was being distributed online for free like a software package, movie, or music CD, and people were using it for free without my consent, I would be pretty bent too.
The issue is that a lot of people who use these torrent sites are quick to point out the problems with the RIAA, MPAA, and think they are digital robin hoods. Thats the wrong attitude to take IMO. |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | I'm not making a moral argument. I'm only arguing the numbers.
They don't lose money on a sale that they would never have made. |
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geekenstein
join:2004-06-09
Powhatan, VA
·Comcast
| reply to Bill03
Man, I bought that album TWICE. First when it came out to begin with, then about 4 years later because I left the record in the sun to get warped. 
I guess the RIAA got me money twice... they should be happy with that...
(of course it only cost about 1/4'th what a friggin CD cost nowadays) |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
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join:2001-05-12
ß
| reply to Dogfather
The point is they would have made sales to the people that use it for work, but just decided not to pay for it.
In his example, the people are actually using it...but did not pay for it because it was able to be pirated. They would have still, more than likely, used it for their work...they just got out of it because someone uploaded it. |
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Dogfather
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| There is no way to know how many people are in his example. There are only a handful of software packages like CS and AutoCAD compared to the number of movies and other software titles stolen.
And the MPAA and RIAA membership aren't the ones selling that stuff. That's an SBA deal. |
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jwersan
R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, and Max.
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Port Jefferson Station, NY
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| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall :Killing? No. The RIAA and MPAA blows things out of proportion that's for sure. Seeing their "losses" rack up into the billions of dollars is just outlandish. I agree, the "true" numbers are VASTLY lower, if any..
Hurting? Yes.
Only a moron would say there is no negative effect from software/music/movie sales from torrents. I personally know a lot of people who use torrents for all their software, music, and movies and don't pay a dime for this material. Other than the burnable DVD to put it all on.
Somewhere in between lies the truth.
I have to disagree here, while some will download and NEVER pay, I wonder how many sales they have GOTTEN VIA Bitorrent from these "illegal" downloads???
I can only speak from personal experience, but I know of several "albums/CDs" that have sold because someone discovered it was available while trying to download what was thought to be unavailable via "retail" outlets..
I just dropped $60 on a set of CDs I had no idea existed until I went looking for some songs and saw what "set" they were on..
So how did Bittorrent hurt the RIAA in these cases???
I think the "sales from" far outstrip the "sales lost"...
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RIAA/MPAA... Bite me!!!!
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james
join:2001-02-26
antarctica
| reply to kamm
Well, I don't think that's fair to say. The Smashing Pumpkins, Greenday, the Offspring are a few bands from that era that I've always enjoyed listening to. The problem comes with the recent idea of manufactured bands thrown together by executives, like the Spice Girls, Back Street Boys, the Monkees... well, I guess the idea isn't that recent, but it seems more mainstream than ever before. |
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
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join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :There is no way to know how many people are in his example. There are only a handful of software packages like CS and AutoCAD compared to the number of movies and other software titles stolen. And the MPAA and RIAA membership aren't the ones selling that stuff. That's an SBA deal. oddly enough when some of these software packages are pirated the company doesnt get as bent out of shape because they know there was no way in hell someone was going to spend 5 grand to tinker with the app in their basement. im sure thats why Adobe hasnt majorly cracked down on Photoshop piracy.
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KrK
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| reply to Nightfall
While there is much merit in what you say, I know of many people who pirated expensive applications or tools when they were younger (and broke) and became experienced and familar with programs like Adobe Photoshop which they now use in their professions and now own legally for home and business use.
If they had never been able to pirate them, they never would of become loyal customers. Strange, but true.
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kingbobo
join:2003-01-21
Atlanta, GA
|  reply to Nightfall
I tend to agree with you. Your example of Photoshop CS3 illustrates the point. Casual (read: home users) can't justify $600+ for a copy of CS3 Photoshop just to edit their personal pictures so most of those get it free if they can. IMO if you make your living using these types of softwares, you should pay for them.Paying Adobe allows them to continue development and to make a living. High end software engineers don't work for free,nor should they.Everybody deserves to be paid for their work. |
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