Re: It's the market, unfortunately in

Re: It's the market, unfortunately in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19895853 en Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:54:31 EDT Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:54:31 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19900061 Ulmo :

said by MightyPez

:

As it was mentioned on Slashdot and on this site before as well, people are willing to pay it, so companies are more than willing to charge it. I myself have a data plan that includes unlimited text messaging.

Remember, we are willing to pay money for a bottle of water that we can get for free and cleaner out of a tap (well, in most cases, anyway). When we pay for something, we perceive it has value.

Not all of us are that stupid, and get the free water instead, but can't do without texts.

As soon as there's a phone plan without the outrageous fees, of course we'll use it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19900061 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:06:31 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19897305 anon : And we still get a charge for Touch Tone!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19897305 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:04:53 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19897083 anon : Moral thing to do? Do you think ANYONE standing to gain from any phone company's profits cares at all whether or not it is the moral thing to do?

Business is business, the only goal is to make as much money as possible. Any perception of morality is merely an attempt to make more money by giving some appearance of a company being moral to gain more customers, thus, make more money.

The only motivation behind any action any company does is to make more money. Bottom line. There is no such thing as "moral" in business.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19897083 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:42:03 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896939 en102 : That's why they have legality :p through contracts/service agreements bought for by lobbiests and lawyers.
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Canada = Hollywood North]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896939 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:53:14 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896703 KrK : It's the lack of a competitive market, unfortunately....

This only happens because there is a limited amount of competition and they all do much the same thing.

People always extol the virtues of the Market and the Free Economy. Too bad it doesn't exist anywhere but in fiction.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896703 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:16:08 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896407 PolarBear :

said by disc

:

Rumour is that Sprint is going to start some price wars:

Well yeah, they have to do SOMETHING to keep from losing all of their customers due to billing mistakes and poor customer service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896407 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:35:09 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896399 PolarBear :

said by Dan

:

How did that jump to a RIAA slag from a topic on sms?

It's called a comparison. He was comparing the market of MP3s to the market of sms messages.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896399 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:33:56 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896307 bogey780 : The thing is it's all part of the business model. Costs themselves are nebulous. A businessman just looks at total resources and how much he could make selling them off. If we paid the true cost of Caller ID, dod you think we'd pay the same in other fields?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896307 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:24:43 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896167 anon :

said by TKJunkMail

:

The capitalist system, so far, has been the best at optimizing scarce resources.

I would be careful when you say that once you realize that capitalist economies also exhibit the greatest amount of waste - wasted food (look in the trash of any restaurant), wasted resources (disposable products), etc.

For example, millions of gallons of oil are wasted each year on bottled water because the bottles are used once and discarded to landfills. Single use products, like water bottles, made from finite resources, like oil, are not an efficient use of resources.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896167 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:06:24 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896080 anon :

said by TKJunkMail

:

But Caller-ID is an OPTION and not required.

That doesn't mean customers should not be alerted to the true price versus the actual cost of delivering the service.

The reason companies get away with charging as much as they do for services like SMS/TXT and caller ID is because consumers don't know the "real costs" of the product - how much it costs to deliver that service/product. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19896080 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:51:53 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895871 nasadude : that's an unfortunate and true fact - and is why it is necessary sometimes for the government to become the conscience.

without either an internal or external conscience we get industries like telecom, where their greed and lack of concern for their country has resulted in a broadband market that is years behind the rest of the developed world, or the content industry, whose lawsuits and bullying have stifled untold creativity and created misery for innocent people.

the free market extremists don't believe in any government regulation or intervention, unless it is of course regulation or intervention that helps industry - does the oil industry really need tax breaks? should congress be passing laws that help the content industry prop up their obsolete business model?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895871 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:19:19 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895853 jhboricua : Ah, and yet these same people that believe in profit at any cost, and other that supports their practices are quick to chastice the morality of those who, for example, download copyrighted material by using P2P applications.

If they lack the morality to charge ridiculous fees, how can they question the morality of those who won't play their game?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA *]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895853 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:16:54 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895829 TKJunkMail :

said by factchecker :

said by bogey780

:

Soon they'll expose that Caller ID is making criminal profits too.

Actually, that Kushnick (sp?) guy has been doing that for several years now, talking about the true cost of CallerID and how much people are charged.

But Caller-ID is an OPTION and not required. Do I wish it was cheaper - sure. But even at the price they charge, to me it is worth it to screen callers and give me control over who I talk to and when I talk to them.

P.S. I don't pay extra for CallerID myself - it is included in a land line / mobile pkg.
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said by jhboricua

:

But do you consider this a moral thing to do?

The capitalist system, so far, has been the best at optimizing scarce resources. And a system that is efficient returns the most to society. So, yes, I find that moral.
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Internet News
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said by bogey780

:

Soon they'll expose that Caller ID is making criminal profits too.

Actually, that Kushnick (sp?) guy has been doing that for several years now, talking about the true cost of CallerID and how much people are charged.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895817 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:11:14 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895630 en102 : Business and morality do not go hand in hand.

Businesses are out there to make money/profit.
Morality requires a conscience.
Businesses require keeping an eye on the bottom line - conscience can get in the way.
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Canada = Hollywood North]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895630 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:41:35 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895448 nasadude : also don't forget, "there's a sucker born every minute".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895448 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:19:51 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895311 jhboricua : But do you consider this a moral thing to do?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895311 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:59:53 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895253 disc :

said by Kfedka

:

I've had a cellphone for three years first year being Tmobile and last two years being Verizon. I have seen a drop of 0% on the rate. ISP's are either dropping rates or increasing bandwidth speeds, But these phone companies or doing neither.

Rumour is that Sprint is going to start some price wars: »www.thestreet.com/s/sprint-preps···googlefi]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895253 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:49:43 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895013 snipper_cr :

said by Dan

:

How did that jump to a RIAA slag from a topic on sms?

Stand by for blaming it on the bush administration!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895013 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:11:22 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894960 anon : Agreed. And they should keep raising the fee until they reach the profit apex point. They could quickly drop the price if SMS demand warrants it or they become too out of step with the market. They'd just be leaving money on the table if they don't, plus it would be hard to find an easier way to add shareholder value.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894960 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 10:03:53 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894909 Dan : How did that jump to a RIAA slag from a topic on sms?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894909 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:54:56 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894905 bogey780 : Soon they'll expose that Caller ID is making criminal profits too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894905 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:54:00 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894888 Kfedka : I've had a cellphone for three years first year being Tmobile and last two years being Verizon. I have seen a drop of 0% on the rate. ISP's are either dropping rates or increasing bandwidth speeds, But these phone companies or doing neither.

There seems to be no competition whatsoever, even with some many wireless phone companies. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894888 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:52:15 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894870 karlmarx : That is EXACTLY correct. We are willing to pay for something that has 'value'. Why do you think P2P is so popular? Because it has no 'value', which is why it's free. If the **AA's got in the game, and charged reasonable prices that people were willing to pay, they could become the 'water' vendor of the internet. Instead, they cling to their outdated system of placing an arbitrary value on something that HAS NO VALUE. A bit is a bit is a bit. The fact that they are organized in a certain way doesn't make the price of ZERO suddenly add up to $17.99.
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The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894870 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:49:01 EDT Re: It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894866 TKJunkMail : It has worth as long as people are willing to pay for it. Don't like paying for it; don't use it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894866 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:48:27 EDT It's the market, unfortunately http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894847 MightyPez : As it was mentioned on Slashdot and on this site before as well, people are willing to pay it, so companies are more than willing to charge it. I myself have a data plan that includes unlimited text messaging.

Remember, we are willing to pay money for a bottle of water that we can get for free and cleaner out of a tap (well, in most cases, anyway). When we pay for something, we perceive it has value. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894847 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:44:47 EDT