 KCrimsonPremium
join:2001-02-25
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1
 ·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | reply to dadkins
Re: Growing Pains said by dadkins:said by Goober:They'll all get worked out. No offense, but how can you work out a trapdoor USB port? Redesign?  A dongle if necessary? Hardly "bulky" if this is the only long-term design problem that this article actually uncovered. The original MB and MBP releases had "heat problems" too, requiring a firmware update to increase fan speed. No big deal. When you purchase bleeding edge you have to expect growing pains, no company can sit on new technology for the time period that is required to uncover all real-world problems. |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Dongle defeats the whole "Thin and Light" idea.
Heat - this thing doesn't exactly have tons of room for air movement.
Poor video... replace the chip?
Bad design without forethought about what may happen in the Real World.
Bleeding edge? Uhm, no.
Other wafer machines were tried and didn't take off.
Only thing Apple has going for it is the fan base - that's it!
Flaws are flaws. These should have been thought out a little better for a "Bleeding Edge" machine.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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 DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Wafer thin machines will never "take off" as in be mainstream. They're purposely designed for the niche Road-Warrior market. I'm one of those travelers who need and use ultra thin, light and powerful sub-notebooks.
The market is there and sub-notebooks are a significant enough class to warrant entry by Apple. |
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| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:Bad design without forethought about what may happen in the Real World. For you it's not a good laptop. However, there are many users who have been clamoring for an extremely thin and light laptop with a full-size keyboard, and this laptop delivers.
This is entirely a "to each their own" situation. This laptop may make no sense to you, but that doesn't mean it's a bad design. It's not an "every man's" computer - but it does successfully cater to a target market of users wanting a thin-and-light laptop without extra bulk. For people who want a Mac that isn't as limited, a MacBook or MacBook Pro delivers.
Why can't people understand this? It's like a family of 8 saying "well, that VW Rabbit is pointless! A Suburban is so much better!" Different products for different markets, people.
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A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18
3 edits | And there were/are other machines out there that are thin and light and they are just killing the market, huh?
It is irrelavent if *I* want one, I'm pointing out that R&D was asleep when designing was at hand.
Here we have a ~$1700.00 laptop, with heat concerns, a USB that is only usable for corded items, a headphone plug that is erratic, and all you can come up with is that it's not a good laptop for me?
The issues are there and they are real, period!
I don't want one, no! Do you?
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to gattaca
said by gattaca:Why can't people understand this? It's like a family of 8 saying "well, that VW Rabbit is pointless! A Suburban is so much better!" Because the VW Rabbit people won't shut up about their damn car.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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| said by RadioDoc:said by gattaca:Why can't people understand this? It's like a family of 8 saying "well, that VW Rabbit is pointless! A Suburban is so much better!" Because the VW Rabbit people won't shut up about their damn car. As an Apple fan, I despair whenever I see an Apple article posted to the front page of DSLReports.  It normally degrades into argumentative discussion that devolves into a flame war. Trust me, I don't give a shit if anyone else hears about any Apple product. I'm happy keeping it all to myself.
What I can't stand is discussions where people argue that since a product doesn't suit them, it can't suit anybody.
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A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | It is quite funny to watch the Apple Hater Cult complain about a supposed Apple Fan Cult. |
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| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:And there were/are other machines out there that are thin and light and they are just killing the market, huh? I don't grade a product based on its marketshare. Plenty of products have tremendous marketshare and are, by no stretch of the imagination, the best products available.
Super-luxury cars are also a small part of the automobile market. Maybe Maybach should stopping making luxury cars and start catering to the masses with a Camry competitor?
I'd also question the validity of some of the "problems" you report with the MacBook Air. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I haven't heard of any widespread heat issues with the MacBook Air yet. And I wouldn't trust wild speculation in an article of DSLR as proof that those problems exist.
And, even after your last post, I still can't understand why people get so emotional against a product. I think the Hummer is an idiotic car. I think Toyota's styling is boring. I can't stand Windows, which is why I use Ubuntu, Fedora and OS X on my personal machines. At the same time, I don't go spouting left and right that products I wouldn't buy are pieces of garbage, because I couldn't care less. I understand that, to some people, they make sense.
I could never bring myself to use Vista because I, *personally*, can't stand it. However, I understand that opinions differ; some people may hate OS X and love Vista. And, quite frankly, I don't give a damn. They're both legitimate opinions.
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A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to Dogfather
Even funnier to see people defend shortcomings because it says Apple on it. 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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| said by dadkins:Even funnier to see people defend shortcomings because it says Apple on it. That's what it's come to? If someone disagrees with you regarding this product, they must be mindless Apple fans?
IIRC from my time in the software forum, your software preferences stood out. For one, you seemed to like Real player (so did I, actually  ) while many people considered it bloatware. What you're doing now is the equivalent to me having called you a "Real Network" fanboy; obviously, anyone who likes Real player must be a fanboy, right?
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A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | reply to dadkins
Again, I defy anyone to show us the PERFECT computer.
All devices and I mean ALL devices have something about them someone would call shortcomings.
To me there is a big difference between a shortcoming like not being able to replace the battery and a DEFECT like the thing overheating and cores turning off or random shutdowns.
No computer company puts a gun to anyone's head. Need battery life, don't buy a "desktop replacement" machine. Need 3G, don't buy an iPhone. Need PS2 game compatibility, don't buy a 40GB PS3. Need native IGES support, don't buy AutoCAD.
IOW, if they don't like it or doesn't have something they need, simply STFU and don't buy it. Some here can't seem to grasp that simple concept. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to gattaca
*I* am not reporting them! I am reading about them - just like everyone else here!
Apple is trying to copy wafer laptops where others have been doing it for years - literally!
This thing will sell, no doubt!
Stevie boy can sell sewage to the fans.
I'm no fan of Toshiba, but the R500 will wax the MBA! LOL!
2.4 lbs with a HDD and a DVD drive! 
Naw, this MBA thing is a conversation peice, nothing more.
With these pointed out issues, well... yeah.
Vista? ROFL! Fuck Vista!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
4 edits | Mac users aren't drones. The failure of Apple TV is proof enough of that.
And absolutely, Apple is entering a highly competitive and long existing market segment, sub-notebooks. But given they went to Intel for a resigned Core2Duo they're resetting the performance benchmark of sub-notebooks.
The R500 you mention would have its ass HANDED to it by the significantly faster Core 2 Duo processors in the MacBook Airs. The R500's 1.2GHz Core2Duo isn't going to hang even close to the 1.6 or 1.8GHz 800MHz FSB Core 2 Duo in the Air. Then there is the R500's smaller screen, smaller keyboard, weaker graphics and other issues. Same with the Sony TZ150, a great notebook, but at this point soundly beaten by the Air in terms of virtually every performance category.
There is nothing revolutionary about a sub-notebook, but Apple's first try is damn good. Their product is not only the world's thinest but has the largest screen, full size keyboard, best graphics and fastest processor in the entire class (for the moment anyway).
The R500 may sell better, but it's certainly not the better performer, not by a long-shot. |
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| I'll take an OQO model02 over either of those |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to gattaca
Taking this all a wee bit too personal, aren't you?
Look, no need to change the subject here - RealPlayer is not what this is about.
No where did I call anyone "mindless Apple fans".
I stated a reply to Carbidyne.
His point is taken at face value, so should mine!
It is well known that the Apple fans will defend everything Steve does or says no matter what.
They seem to think Apple is the be all, end all computer on the planet.
It is no secret that I don't like Apple. Ask anyone! LOL!
This thing *DOES* look cool!
This thing DOES have some issues that should have been addressed BEFORE production was set in motion.
NOT MY FAULT! 
Damn skippy I am going to suggest what could have been done, and state the obvious(it should have never been done the way it was) - and in this very news item we can all see the defenders trying to sweep issues under the carpet.
Get a dongle? LOL!
THAT, my friend, is funny!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
2 edits | I would agree, there are certainly some Apple fanbois out there, but not all Apple users are drones (not that you make such a claim, but others here would assert that).
When considering the design problems/quirks of the Air one must also look at competitors in the class. When you consider shortcomings like the USB thing or non-swappable battery, one also must consider the thinness of the notebook and it's EXTRAORDINARY performance that simply kicks the living crap out of it's current competitors in the sub-notebook class. |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | reply to Dogfather
*cough* DVD drive *cough*
An optical drive in general.
Install... what? Sure! No problem!
MBA? Uhm, wait! I have to get the external and pplu it in(more weight, more bulk, less convienient).
Processor, I'll give you that!
Weight, MBA loses!
Ethernet, Sorry!
3 USB ports, ouch!
Form is useless without function.
MBA is a sexy machine! 
Too bad it needs extras just to work like a - computer.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera |
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| reply to dadkins
Fair enough. I would argue that statements like "Stevie boy can sell sewage to the fans" are inflammatory and do nothing to add to the conversation, but that would get me nowhere. I still don't understand why you can't acknowledge that this laptop is *exactly* what some people have been waiting for. And I'll never understand why you're basing a large portion of your complaints against this laptop on hypothetical problems that, at this point, are pure speculation.
Clearly heat is a major concern in *any* laptop, but I don't understand why you think this laptop is guaranteed to have issues in that area. The entire back hinge is a vent, and there is a CPU fan that exhausts air through that vent. Add to that the fact that the aluminum casing won't seal in heat like a plastic laptop, and I really don't see why you expect heat to be such a problem here.
Personally, I don't use a laptop as my main machine; I have a desktop computer. *If* I did have a laptop, hell yes I'd seriously consider the MacBook Air. Why? Because I don't need an optical drive or fully-accessible USB port for a laptop. I don't need extra garbage like an optical drive weighing me down. That's all for my home machine. My laptop will be used to connect wirelessly to available networks. If I *must* have a mouse (which I don't), I'll use Bluetooth. I don't use CDs or DVDs unless I'm installing the OS, which can be done wirelessly with the MacBook Air. So, for me, this is a perfect mobile machine. What you call a shortcoming, I call an advantage *for my uses.* I don't have any devices I would ever want to plug in while on the go with this particular laptop.
We'll have to agree to disagree, I suppose! I don't enjoy discussions that devolve to inflammatory comments and sweeping stereotypes.
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A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
4 edits | reply to dadkins
Remember the segment. Road-warriors, at least me and everyone like me that I know don't need DVD drives out in the field. We load our Powerpoint and Keynote presentations, software is already installed, etc...we don't need internal optical drives in these super sub-notebook machines. And for anything else I have 8GB USB keys that would fit the MBA just fine.
Thinness, MBA wins by a mile, the thickest part of the MBA is thinner that the thinnest part of the R500
Screen size MBA wins
Keyboard size MBA wins
Processor performance MBA wins by a mile
Video performance MBA wins
Illuminated keyboard, MBA wins
Ambient light sensors, MBA wins
LED Backlight, MBA wins
Standard memory MBA wins by a mile
Multi-touch trackpad MBA wins
Web cam MBA wins
Price MBA wins by a mile
MBA loses
No wired ethernet
No swappable battery
Only 1 USB obstructed USB port
Weight, SLIGHTLY heavier because of it's FULL SIZE components in the world's thinnest notebook.
Optical drive in a sub-notebook? For what? You don't need it, MBA can take over other optical drives in other computers wirelessly and with sub-notebooks, you'll already have a "main" machine.
Wired ethernet? Why bother when you have 802.11n, but if you want it, you use USB ethernet for $30.
3 USB ports, again, why all the external prefrials when you're trying to be as portable as possible but if you need that, you can get a dirt cheap hub and use it only when you need it.
What you're complaining about doesn't make much sense. If you want USB ports for all this extra junk, why bother buying a sub-notebook. If you want wired ethernet, why do you need the extreme portability offered by this class of computer. The things you're complaining about are for desktop replacement notebooks, not sub-notebooks.
Seems the things that you're complaining about are the LEAST important factors (aside from weight) in the class. In this class, battery life, physical dimensions, usability (in terms of screen, keyboard and performance) are king.
But it's what I said, if you need DVD in the field, don't buy the MBA. If you hate Apple, don't buy the Air. Have something against owning the world's thinnest, and fastest sub-notebook, don't buy the Air. |
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