bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
 ·SONIC.NET
| reply to jmirabella
Re: Why the MacBook Air is "misunderstood"
I can't think of anything else that would work on a serial port. Is there anything else? I used it all the time back in my modem days, and was pretty impressed when it got ported to OS X a while ago.
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STFU & RTFM | Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk |
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Dogfather
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join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
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4 edits | reply to Maranello
The White MacBook is considerably cheaper in with the same hardware configuration as the Black but whatever.
You think the M1330 running Vista is superior, then go buy one. But you better hurry because that Dell price you quote reflects a limited time discount of $800. The normal price of that M1330 is $2200, and that's $200 more than my MacBook Pro cost and nearly 2X the cost of a MacBook. Looks like Dell is very eager to unload those M1330's.
In my experience running Leopard and Vista Ultimate in BC on my MacBook Pro Vista drags down any marginal improvement in graphics horsepower and Adobe's suite doesn't hold a candle to iLife. And Dell's service sucks.
I'll take the cheaper MacBook, OS X, iLife, standard 802.11n + GigE, FrontRow (and remote that works perfectly with Keynote which is why I have a portable) and Apple's superior service over the M1330 and Vista any day of the week, even at Dell's fire sale price.
But to each his own. |
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cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| reply to stonecolddsl
said by stonecolddsl  :Your missing the point. A. I can add ram to my EEE PC with out having the take the whole thing apart and void my warrenty. B. It was to point out that all the things people say the MBA is supposed to be good at the EEE is good at too. C. What is screen size is all the MBA is supposed to be use for is presentations and light doc editing etc. D. Does screen size really matter when your hooking it up to a dlp project. Answer NO. I am how?
A. MBA has 2 Gb of ram stock vs 512 mb so there is less need to upgrade.
B. It still runs a slower processor with a tiny hard drive.
C. Only some posters mentioned presentations, in that case it is only important unless you like to put your back to your audience and face the screen to speak.
D. Redundant with item C.
Both computers lack DVD drives, however only the MBA has a large enough hard drive to store the DVD on it.
Comparing the EEE PC with the MBA on a price point is like pointing to a Honda Civic and saying a BMW should cost the same because both get you to the same place. |
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Maranello
ChannelFlip
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-08
Butler, PA
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :Then go buy one. In my experience Vista drags down any marginal improvement in graphics horsepower and Adobe's suite doesn't hold a candle to iLife. And Dell's service sucks. I'll take the MacBook, OS X, iLife and Apples superior service over the M1330 and Vista any day of the week. But to each his own. Actually I'm getting the Macbook but only because of OS X. If Apple had introduced a much more logical Pro version of the 13.3" Macbook with discrete graphics I'd be getting that instead. Unfortunately they decided to take on a small niche market... which leaves the Macbook as their only sub 15.4" (optical drive) solution.
As for Dell's service, XPS service is much better than the other models. Even so, there are horror stories but Apple has them as well so I would say neither is better than the other.
My big love of discrete graphics is less about the extra horsepower and more about the dedicated memory. It's no more expensive to add low end 128MB 8400/2400 graphics now then it is to have the X3100 sucking on 144MB of system memory. |
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Maranello
ChannelFlip
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join:2000-12-08
Butler, PA
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| reply to Dogfather
The limited time discount isn't that limited... it's been going on for a good while now and no they aren't trying to get rid of them... they're taking on Apple and Sony for the high end of the market. Besides, even if I do miss the rebate and didn't feel like waiting a week for the next one, you've already pointed out who the M1330 is squarely aimed at... the Macbook Pro. Even at $200 more it's still got a gig more memory and 200GB more HDD space not to mention it's much smaller size... $200 is a bargain. |
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Dogfather
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join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
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| reply to Maranello
I have to disagree about XPS service. I have 2 XPS Gen 4's and don't get any better service than I do with my Dell Business purchases which is horrible.
My Dell E1705 C2D with a bad drive controller was UPSed back for repair and nearly a month later I get it back with the same problem. Sent it back again, 3 weeks later get it back with the same problem. Every time I called, long hold times, accents I can't understand, and no help. My XPS Gen 4's both had bad 7600GTO video cards and the same crap service. Give them my credit card number to get the replacement cards cross shipped, return their cards and I got charged anyway as if I didn't return the old cards. Took 2 months and multiple faxing of proof of delivery to straighten that one out. A nightmare.
Meanwhile my Apple repair experiences (the 2 I've had) have been nothing but stellar. My Mac Pro had a firewire quirk and where Dell would have blown me off, the Apple Store replaced not only the logic board but both 3GHz dual core Xeons and the 1000W power supply. They did it in less than 24HRS and for $0. My MacBook got the updated heatsink swapped out in 4 hours for $0. Every time I got excellent walk in service, courteous service and a face to face point of contact.
But no machine is all things to all people. I can see the appeal of the M1330 at $1400 but certainly not at the regular $2200 price. I can buy a refurbed MacBook and iMac with factory warranty for that. |
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Dogfather
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| reply to Maranello
Then you're into other feature comparisons like backlit keyboards, ambient light sensors, tilt sensors, FW800, 5GHz 802.11n support etc. I don't consider a 15+ notebook to be in the same class with a sub-notebook like the M1330. Being in a 15.4" chassis give them room for more processor horsepower options, faster standard NVidia graphics and other knick-knacks that Dell can't run in that tight thermal envelope.
And given my experience running Vista and OS X natively on the same machine, OS X does more with less horsepower. IOW, Vista needs all the HW help it can get. |
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bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·SureWest Internet
| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :I would suggest you take your own advice and afford those with opposing views on the MBA the same courtesy you feel those who champion it deserve. I think you misunderstood my post -- what advice? I just observed there is a lot of MBA bashing on in this forum, I didn't pass judgement or tell you to stop.
said by RadioDoc :Apple's own website states: "Between 0.16 to 0.76 inch thin and weighing only 3.0 pounds, MacBook Air sets new standards for ultra-portable computing - without the usual ultra-portable compromises." Get real, that is the standard marketing BS and further it is in fact accurate. Apple did not make the usual ultra-portable compromises and that is the source of all the gnashing of teeth (where's the Ethernet? where's the optical drive? where's the replaceable battery? why can't I upgrade RAM? etc, etc). The MBA has a unique set of compromises that other notebook vendors have not taken and that is polarizing opinions about the MBA.
said by RadioDoc :But heaven help anyone who dares point them out. Poor attempt at playing the victim. Bash away at the MBA but don't mistake my observation about the quantity of negative posts for dishing out advice or suppressing opinions. Re-read my post, I didn't ask you to stop nor did I invalidate your opinion. Ironically you are imploring us to agree with your opinion -- "Unfortunately, the Apple Acolytes can't contain themselves and absolutely will not listen to reason. Those limitations are going to hurt. Bad." Wow, I'm left to assume that if I find the MBA compromises acceptable for my computing needs that I "absolutely will not listen to reason" because your point of view are more important.
After rereading the negative posts I think Macworld summarized it best:
quote:
Judged merely on the cold technological specifications, the MacBook Air can't measure up to Apple's other laptops. For those to whom the tech specs matter above all else, the MacBook Air can't be seen as much more than an overpriced, underpowered toy.
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zahir06
join:2007-09-28 | reply to Authority
Well MacBook Air is not for me. I never had a Mac before but if ever I want my first Mac, I will look into their other products. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
2 edits | reply to bbarrera
MBA bashing? Is that what you call people expressing their legitimate opinions? Bashing? Most would call it criticism.
Jobs made a big deal at Macworld about not making any compromises. Now, you can dismiss that as PR fluff too but it goes to the real issue: Apple misrepresented this right out of the box. The much-maligned (in here at least) Dell XPS M1330 has few if any of the "compromises" inherent in the MBA. And that is just one example.
My opinion is formed by reading what those in the industry say about products, not what is posted on a fan-based user forum like this. There seems to be a constant trickle of issues now that people have gotten their hands on it, and Apple has started posting some of them to its website.
There are already heat issues reported and Apple says that the MBA will shut down one CPU and drop the clock on the remaining one in those situations. Their solution: Move it to somewhere cooler and/or put it on a notebook cooler. Oddly, the knowledge base document where this was stated has been pulled (#307297).
There have been issues with WiFi throughput when the lid is closed.
Transferring files is slow via WiFi. So slow Apple recommends using an Ethernet connection via the USB adapter.
You cannot use Remote Disc to install an OS via Boot Camp. You cannot boot from it at all in fact. You also evidently can't use it for DVD video or CD audio.
Many normal 3.5mm headphone plugs do not fit the audio out jack.
The USB fiasco in general.
The "restore disc" is specific to that computer and you'll need the $99 USB DVD drive to reinstall if it comes to that, which does not come with the MBA. Apple warns not to try to restore via a retail copy of Leopard, either.
There are issues when using multiple Bluetooth devices.
And that's just from what I read today. A lot of it is at macworld.com.
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bbarrera
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join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
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·SureWest Internet
| Even with all the compromises I'd still buy one if traveling. As my MBP is only a bit over 1 year old and I'm not traveling much I'll avoid the early adopter growing pains.
In my office the MBP is connected to a 24" LCD via a single DVI cable and single USB cable. I only use a flash drive on the road. I carry a pocket-sized wireless router to use in hotels while on the road, so that I'm not tethered via Cat5e to the desk. I rarely use DVDs or CDs. The only hardware compromise from my point of view is the 100Mbps WiFi and Ethernet connectivity, but that isn't a big issue.
When the day comes that I need it I'm glad that Apple finally released a lightweight notebook. |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| reply to RadioDoc
** Attention **
______________
You post has been flagged for blatant use of objectivity, common sense and sourcing beyond the confines of the DSLR Steve0dome. We implore you to get with, and stick with, the program. If you require re-programming, please proceed to your nearest Apple store and breathe deeply for a minimum of five minutes. Thank you.
______________ |
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bbarrera
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-23
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
1 edit | I'll be sure and consult with you and RadioDoc on my next computer because you guys are like totally the computer gods with more common sense than anyone I know.
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| said by bbarrera :I'll be sure and consult with you and RadioDoc on my next computer because you guys are like totally the computer gods with more common sense than anyone I know. I get your drift ... but his post was simply pointing out what other sites were saying, and anyone is free to research it on their own. If you think I really care whether anyone buys air-anything then you're sadly mistaken. Big time. I simply enjoy a parade
I'm no Authority, IOW.
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MrUmbra
@verizon.net
| reply to Authority
I actually like what I see. My only concern is that wired into the system battery situation. Then, although it's really not an insurmountable problem, installing software might be a hassle without and optical drive.
I have seen it criticized for lack of ports. But really, with wireless connectivity how many wired ports does one really need?
It's for those who prefer Macs. Comparing it to Windows machines is literary comparing Apples to some other fruit.
--- CHAS |
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kfsutops
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Brandon, FL
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| reply to RadioDoc
Don't worry. The kool-aid drinkers will say things like, "it's just first generation, apple will fix it in the next revision."
It's a POS product that the only redeeming quality is it looks cool. That's it.
I own Macs. I'm not some windows person coming in here trying to bash Macs. This will not go anywhere. I like how people say it's for the mobile business person to do "presentation."
Are you f-ing kidding me? Mobile professionals are not using Macs. Let that go people. Business is a Windows world.
Lil Susie to dad while sitting in the backseat on a long trip. "Dad I want to watch a movie, I'm bored." Dad, "I'm sorry honey my new $1800 laptop doesn't have a dvd player."
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"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots" |
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gabeman
join:2001-05-03
Philadelphia, PA
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| reply to Authority
If you're the type of person who's on a plane twice a week, lives out of hotels, and want to surf the web from your hotel room, this is the perfect laptop for you.
If you're a graphic designer, gamer, or general "Upgrade teh video card" type person, this is not for you.
I don't understand why people are hating on the MBA for things its not supposed to be. If you need a powerful, full size laptop, buy a MBP, end of story.
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Rest in Peace Hunter S Thompson."There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to bbarrera
said by bbarrera :I'll be sure and consult with you and RadioDoc on my next computer because you guys are like totally the computer gods with more common sense than anyone I know. Considering some of the blind defense of this thing in here, by comparison I may be.
Look, I posted what a lot of "experts" have said, some of which are long-time Apple cheerleaders, and are less than thrilled with the Air. Some are downright depressed about it. Things like wireless connectivity problems & Bluetooth issues go straight to the usability of this thing since it does not have 'normal' ports as backup. You can buy whatever you want, but I certainly would not want to be stuck at a client site with one of these, no matter how sexy, light or thin it is.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather :I doubt anyone is going to buy the Air based solely on 'sex appeal', especially when the MacBook is $700 less. You obviously don't know anyone in the Beverly Hills / Hollywood area. I've met my share of people that buy on "t3h cutting edge" of fashion, then later find out just WTF they purchased.
Of course, to that crowd, buying an "oops" laptop like the MBA, then picking up a Macbook, isn't so big a deal. |
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bbarrera
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Sacramento, CA
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| reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc :Considering some of the blind defense of this thing in here, by comparison I may be. Compared to other topics I'm surprised by the almost complete lack of blind defense of the MBA, therefore I'm a bit bewildered by this comment you've repeated in several posts.
Yesterday my 8 year old had a Build a Bear birthday party at the mall. I briefly snuck out and went upstairs to the Apple store. I spent about a few minutes with the MBA and a few minutes watching others. Half the folks wanted more ports and weren't interested, and the other half planned on buying (myself included). I found it quite snappy compared to my Mac mini with 4200rpm drive. The size and weight are perfect in my opinion. I've traveled for business since 1988 and only briefly carried an extra battery before realizing I didn't need it. As mentioned earlier I only use a single USB and DVI cable to connect my MBP to a Dell 24" LCD so the limited ports aren't an issue for me. For several years now I travel with a pocket sized wireless router for use in hotels with Ethernet in the room, so the lack of an Ethernet port is not an issue for me. However it would be nice to have GigE port for use in the office when dealing with large files (>8GB because I have an 8GB usb flash drive). Firewire is not usually an issue as I hook up our Camcorder to an iMac, but if I did want to use FW it should be possible using my miniStack v3 (USB to MBA, then FW400, FW800 and eSATA devices are available to MBA).
I'll definitely buy a MBA at some point. My short-term plan is to sell the MBP and buy a Mac Pro for use as a serious engineering workstation and server. |
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