Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter in

Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19938448 en Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:15:01 EDT Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:15:01 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19949496 fiberguy : While I agree with you, strongly, on your take here - as I often do.. the one thing that I would like to see happen is simple..

Taxes are taxes - those that are paid to the government. Everything else is and should be the actual cost of the service or product.

I for one would like to see a truth in ... X act set up.

If there is a fee that is part of every customer's bill in order to provide the service, then it should be in fact part of the monthly price, and not broken out as a 'fee'..

IE: If there is a "global connection charge" at $2.00, and the base internet price is $29.99, then the real price of the internet service SHOULD be $31.99 because that $2.00 'fee' is an actual cost to deliver the service.

On some levels, I agree with the arguments about the fees. In my opinion, take the grocery store and the produce department (and assume there was tax on it).. if they were to say that a cucumber was $0.49 cents each, + tax + $0.30 cent refrigeration fee, the cost to keep it cold is in fact part of the cost of the product.

Basically, what I'm saying is that I have to agree on "fees", those that are not taxes. I agree that a tax needs to be broken out as it should.. but if it's a fee, ie: part of putting the product out, then it should be part of the price and not broken out.

If they were to break out costs, then I'd love to see them break out the actual line item costs.. CSR, outside tech, inside tech, power, insurance, etc. ;)

I just think that if it's not a tax, then it's part of the product. What say you?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19949496 Thu, 07 Feb 2008 05:16:12 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943962 DaveNJ :

said by factchecker :

said by DaveNJ

:

Unfees arent right, there should be more honest, but with the conservatives modeling behavior who can blame them.

I dont think you understood my statement, because if you did, then you could see , not reason to alter it. Adding your need to protect, "liberals" proves my point, that liberals are fascists. They dont accept any criticism. Because they are too weak..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943962 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 09:35:44 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943705 s13 : Agreed. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943705 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:33:36 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943687 s13 :

said by morbo

:

wow. you're really defending "unfees"?

no one is arguing limiting the price charged by companies (is that your misguided 'socialist' slam?), just that the price advertised should be THE PRICE plus federal, state, and local taxes required by law. no hiding the true price of a product or service.

Well as a very kind member astutely pointed out to me in a post similar to this one, you're a socialist if you don't support unfees. Stop promoting socialism, hippie!! :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943687 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:27:54 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943253 Kearnstd :

said by KrK

:

The biggest Myth of all: That we have a "Free Market" economy.

We have a economy that likes to trumpet "Free Market" to keep regulations away so they can abuse at will, but there's nothing "Free" about it because a Free Market system ASSUMES that you have unlimited opportunity for competition as it's main check and balance.

And in many industries, this simply isn't the case.

The Free Market system is as much an unachievable Utopia as the so called Communist Market system. Both are totally impossible to achieve given human nature.

the three major forms of running things(capitolism, Socialism, Communism) are all impossible in their most pure forms. because they are run by humans. and lets face it we can be evil greedy creatures when wealth and or power is to had.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943253 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 03:02:48 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943214 KrK : People do ask them what the final price is... They have a bad reputation for lying or "being in error..."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943214 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:43:17 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943211 KrK :

said by TKJunkMail

:

Wrong. I'm a retired railroad exec.

Back in the day, I believe they called such a person a Robber Baron. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943211 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:41:39 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943207 KrK :

said by clickie

:

Or is Laissez-faire capitalism a cute euphemism for thievery?

Apparently, yes.

I guess if I walked into a Bank and waved a Gun and demanded money, I wouldn't be a criminal. I'd be a business entrepreneur!
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19943207 Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:40:01 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19941149 KrK : The biggest Myth of all: That we have a "Free Market" economy.

We have a economy that likes to trumpet "Free Market" to keep regulations away so they can abuse at will, but there's nothing "Free" about it because a Free Market system ASSUMES that you have unlimited opportunity for competition as it's main check and balance.

And in many industries, this simply isn't the case.

The Free Market system is as much an unachievable Utopia as the so called Communist Market system. Both are totally impossible to achieve given human nature.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19941149 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:27:29 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19941127 KrK : Funny how anyone who stands up for Consumer rights against Corporate interests in pillaging becomes a "Socialist".

Of course, this is nothing new. Back in the day, anyone who stood up against anything a corporation did was labeled a communist, socialist, traitor, anti-American, etc yadda yadda yadda.

Amazing how little some things change.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19941127 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:22:56 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19940724 Surfinusa : And people think this site is stupid and is a lie ???

»asteriskhunters.com/

*************************************************************************************************************************** UN-FEES **** ASTERISK **********************************
************************************************************************************************************************

It is the annoying commercial that has a point.

Wish cable sees the point also.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19940724 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:10:15 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939920 Rickez : Wrong. I'm a retired railroad exec. = Thats even worse.... Amtrak? even worse!
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Got a one way ticket, going the wrong way....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939920 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:11:05 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939821 Kearnstd : my issue with fees is these are the only services that can legally get away with this.

Blizzard charges me 15/mo for WoW(well really 14.95, but the point is there). i dont see a charge on my credit card with an extra 10-15 dollars in bullshit fees. now of course your communications stuff is taxed but honestly if they say 39.95 on TV then it should only be 39.95+tax. no other business can advertise one price then add their so called business operation fees afterwards.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939821 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:56:21 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939816 TKJunkMail :

said by sporkme

:

I still say TK is a retired VZ/Bell Atlantic guy. :)

Wrong. I'm a retired railroad exec.
--
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said by moonpuppy

said by TKJunkMail

:

I confirmed no such thing. I haven't looked thru (sic) their web site to find if fees are there, so I couldn't say whether they are there or not.

Then why did you say this:

said by TKJunkMail

:

Fee information is available from many sources - not just their web site.

I still say TK is a retired VZ/Bell Atlantic guy. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939804 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:52:00 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939582 moonpuppy :

said by TKJunkMail

:

I confirmed no such thing. I haven't looked thru (sic) their web site to find if fees are there, so I couldn't say whether they are there or not.

Then why did you say this:

said by TKJunkMail

:

Fee information is available from many sources - not just their web site.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939582 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:15:38 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939520 anon :

said by DaveNJ

:

Unfees arent right, there should be more honest, but with the conservatives modeling behavior who can blame them.

The above, altered, statement is also true... You guys can point fingers at each other when one of the sides actually quits doing what it accuses the other side of doing. Until then, both sides are nothing but hypocrites.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939520 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 15:04:04 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939489 anon :

said by TKJunkMail

:

Great - another left wing reporter with a hate on for capitalism.

Wow, that statement makes you sound like those African American people who screamed about Cosby talking about the problem of fatherless children...

Instead of actually discussing the content of a valid criticism, you reframe that criticism as something totally different, in this case you call the author a socialist, and totally avoid addressing the valid points presented...

Would you like to try again and actually discuss the issues the author brought up? Or are you so totally blinded by an irrational belief in capitalism that you view any criticism of a system that is light years from perfect as promoting socialism?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939489 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:59:03 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939470 TKJunkMail :

said by sporkme

:

I'm not just going to trust the "internets" and my home lines do not have an "account manager". Thanks for confirming that this is indeed a scam and that VZ does not publish what the actual price is.

I confirmed no such thing. I haven't looked thru their web site to find if fees are there, so I couldn't say whether they are there or not.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939470 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:56:17 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939461 anon : Nice... You take on the weakest point in clickie

's argument instead of addressing his far stronger one, thereby totally re-framing the argument...

I haven't seen a dodge that good in awhile.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939461 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:54:24 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939439 sporkme : I'm not just going to trust the "internets" and my home lines do not have an "account manager". Thanks for confirming that this is indeed a scam and that VZ does not publish what the actual price is.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939439 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:51:19 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939378 TKJunkMail :

said by sporkme

:

Awesome, show me all the fees on their website please. :)

Fee information is available from many sources - not just their web site. I call the LOCAL office mgr and get what I need. And I call friends who have Verizon service and can give me info from bill. And I can search web sites like BBR and others to gather what info I need. If you want it, you can get it.
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said by TKJunkMail

said by sporkme

said by TKJunkMail

:

I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do.

You've never dealt with Verizon.

I'm a Verizon customer - both landline and wireless.

Awesome, show me all the fees on their website please. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939335 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:32:57 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939324 TKJunkMail :

said by sporkme

said by TKJunkMail

:

I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do.

You've never dealt with Verizon.

I'm a Verizon customer - both landline and wireless.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939324 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:30:57 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939294 sporkme :

said by TKJunkMail

:

I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do.

You've never dealt with Verizon.

Point me to something on their website showing me what a POTS line with nothing beyond touch tone and local calling will cost, including all fees/"taxes".

This book is kind of old news, no idea why it popped up here today. Here's 36 minutes of examples: »www.npr.org/templates/story/stor···17898418]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939294 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:23:43 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939198 Camelot One : If I were to call AT&T and ask how much the final bill would be at address x for this particular service, they could not tell me.

And before you claim it is because local taxes vary, try asking for the pre-tax, after "Fee" amount. They can't/won't tell you that either.
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Intel Quad Core QX6700 @3500Mhz/Asus P5N32-E SLI/4x 1024Mb Corsair/Seagate 750.10/PNY 7800GTs SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19939198 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:05:59 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938966 DaveNJ : I have no problems with Capitalism, but the author. Should consider more liberal gotchas. Like Gotcha freedom aka political correctness or Gotcha taxes where your money is spend, without any accountability. But by far is Gotcha news, where there is an obvious spin towards liberal candidates. etc. Unfees arent right, there should be more honest, but with the liberals modeling behavior who can blame them.
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Merry Christmas.. Merry Christmas.. Merry Christmas..

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938966 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:28:55 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938893 TKJunkMail :

said by clickie

:

these companies will quote you one price and charge you another disguising the difference as "fees" from a third party.

I have no trouble finding what the "Fees" are before signing up. While marketing in general oversimplifies things for the masses, if you want to find out the real cost, it isn't hard to do. "Caveat Emptor" is still a good maxim to follow when buying something.
--
Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938893 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:18:48 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938604 clickie : Logical fallacy of ad hominem attack. The author may be *ALL* of the things you state, it doesn't change the truth of the message he conveys and that is these companies will quote you one price and charge you another disguising the difference as "fees" from a third party.

What part of dishonesty and disingenuous marketing doesn't register with you? There's a difference between capitalism and thievery, right? Or is Laissez-faire capitalism a cute euphemism for thievery?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938604 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:32:02 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938448 morbo :

said by TKJunkMail

:

Great - another left wing reporter with a hate on for capitalism.

wow. you're really defending "unfees"?

no one is arguing limiting the price charged by companies (is that your misguided 'socialist' slam?), just that the price advertised should be THE PRICE plus federal, state, and local taxes required by law. no hiding the true price of a product or service. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938448 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:00:19 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938445 hopeflicker :

said by TKJunkMail

:

Great - another left wing reporter with a hate on for capitalism. His book(Gotcha Capitalism) is marketed as some pro-consumer guide but he is just another reporter who is a socialist at heart. Of course, he is willing to plug HIS book and make a lot of money, making him the usual liberal hypocrite.

More discussion on this news clip, Sullivan, and his book here from Jan 29:

»To Comcast I'm just ARPU tell me it isn't so ;(

take your blinders off!

There are negative aspects of capitalism, you know.

I wonder how many more times the words "move to china" or "communism" will appear in this thread. Bets anyone? :)
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Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938445 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:59:42 EDT Re: Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938441 woody7 : There is nothing wrong with capitalism, It's that there isn't a choice to choose something else in this instance ( and don't wait for the govment any time soon). For most products and services we have a choice, but when it comes to cable/phone service we don't really have a choice, it is a perceived choice, but not a real one, unless you go without cable and a phone. Cell service is not much of a choice either. Peace
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BlooMe]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938441 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:57:39 EDT Bob Sullivan - another left wing reporter http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938253 TKJunkMail : Great - another left wing reporter with a hate on for capitalism. His book(Gotcha Capitalism) is marketed as some pro-consumer guide but he is just another reporter who is a socialist at heart. Of course, he is willing to plug HIS book and make a lot of money, making him the usual liberal hypocrite.

More discussion on this news clip, Sullivan, and his book here from Jan 29:

»To Comcast I'm just ARPU tell me it isn't so ;(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19938253 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:27:31 EDT