gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
 ·Suddenlink
 ·Cirtex Hosting
 ·SUNROCKET
|  Sigh...
Why don't companies just put text in their TOS/AUP that states they don't have to do ANYTHING at all to keep you happy, and in fact they hate you.
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth
join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA
| Not sure it is possible to make everyone happy. Top 1% is not happy that bandwidth is not 100mb, unlimited and free. Bottom 20% don't care about unlimited BW and want it cheaper. Middle of the road think the bandwidth is fine, but are not happy that they are subsidizing the top 1%'s DVD download library.
Can't please them all.
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"Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear." - Dinah Craik |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram  :Why don't companies just put text in their TOS/AUP that states they don't have to do ANYTHING at all to keep you happy, and in fact they hate you. Which is funny, because it didn't used to be that way with providers 15 years ago. The utterly bizarre "anti-customer" corporate attitude is something fairly new (and I'm still baffled by the fact that it grows rather than diminishes). |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| I remember when all we had was dial up, and being that dial up, for the most part, didn't limit you to one provider, how nice and accommodating the local guys were, compared to the big boys..
I used to hang out at my ISP sometimes, just to talk with them, and watch all the modem lights blink..
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Cox HSI
| Dialup really was the perfect competitive environment for internet access. The only limiter was your local phone company, pretty much every local zone would have an ISP or 10. Prices dropped to the minimum, and the fittest/most friendly flourished.
The thing dialup had going for it was the phone routing system, so you could dial anywhere that gives the best deal. A modern net connection goes to one place, and you need an account to even get there. Every competitor needs to bring you a separate line to your door, instead of going over one line. Its a shame that line-sharing could not be done in a way to make customers and the line-sharer happy. |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| I so wish life could be that simple in the internet provider space..
Of course some will say, if the providers know they have to line share, they will have no incentive to upgrade their lines in the first place..
It seems to me, they already have little to no incentive to do that, and pretty much only roll out better services when they absolutely must.
Sad isn't it?
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·Comcast
·Embarq
| There are some telcos that still have this kind of flexibility on their DSL service. Since DSLAMs just map each DSL connection into ATM PVCs, they can terminate the connection on any other ATM end-point on the same network.
When I lived downtown I was in Qwest territory and was able to order DSL with my choice of ISPs, so I was able to get provisioned to a local ISP that routed me a /29 and provided all kinds of nifty features like shell access on one of their user SunOS machines. |
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Gilitar
join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to koitsu
said by koitsu :said by gatorkram :Why don't companies just put text in their TOS/AUP that states they don't have to do ANYTHING at all to keep you happy, and in fact they hate you. Which is funny, because it didn't used to be that way with providers 15 years ago. The utterly bizarre "anti-customer" corporate attitude is something fairly new (and I'm still baffled by the fact that it grows rather than diminishes). Companies like Wal-Mart started this type of corporate attitude by instituting things like absurd return policies. Customers then started demanding more and more for companies to bend over backwards to please them. Now those corporations have back-lashed against the customer. They finally realized it is impossible to make everyone happy, so they no longer even try.
I'm not taking up for the corporate attitude but rather simply explaining where it comes from. |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram :Why don't companies just put text in their TOS/AUP that states they don't have to do ANYTHING at all to keep you happy, and in fact they hate you. I for one think they might as well slim it down to two words, first word starts with a F, and the second with a Y. They really just want money and try to dance around the fact their screwing you hard.
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Team Discovery-Join the fight |
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Noah Vail
Serial Thread Killer
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
·VoicePulse
| reply to telcolackey
said by telcolackey :Middle of the road think the bandwidth is fine, but are not happy that they are subsidizing the top 1%'s DVD download library.Can't please them all. And I'm not happy that I had to subsidize the MoR's who couldn't be bothered to live somewhere with existing infrastructure so that I had to pay for their new lines to be run.
Since Everybody subsidizes Each Other, how is it a relevant discussion point?
NV
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Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. |
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knightmb
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·Comcast
·Vonage
·Speakeasy
| reply to telcolackey
said by telcolackey :Not sure it is possible to make everyone happy. Top 1% is not happy that bandwidth is not 100mb, unlimited and free. Bottom 20% don't care about unlimited BW and want it cheaper. Middle of the road think the bandwidth is fine, but are not happy that they are subsidizing the top 1%'s DVD download library. Can't please them all. Given that bandwidth is shared, the middle would only be affected if everyone else on their shared pipe was burning up P2P apps, in which case they would be the minority of the group instead of the "top" of everyone else left. So unless the top bandwidth users have found a way to "control" what is allocated to them, the arguments of them using all the bandwidth falls apart when you examine it from a technical standpoint.
So some confusion is:
Are they affecting network performance as a whole? Maybe.
Are they taking all of "your" bandwidth? No, they are sharing just like you.
Can the ISP better tune it's performance? Sure, that's what QoS and Traffic Shaping was invented for.
Is blocking traffic the same as QoS and Traffic Shaping? No, by definition, QoS and Traffic Shaping don't stop traffic, just control it's flow based on a set of rules. Blocking P2P is identical to blocking HTTP or PPTP traffic, except more people would get upset if they couldn't web surf or connect to the company VPN. Customer service nightmare for sure. |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
edit:
February 7th, @02:22PM
| reply to gatorkram
That is why I call for one nationwide network that any provider of any service can "lease" to get to any customer in any location that is willing to pay for one of their services. |
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gatorkram
Spelling and Grammer impared
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
clubs:
·Suddenlink
·Cirtex Hosting
·SUNROCKET
| said by Skippy25 :That is why I call for one nationwide network that any provider of any service can "lease" to get to any customer in any location that is willing to play for one of their services. I agree %100..
I have many posts, where I talk about how great it would be if anyone could provide me access.
I often compare it to how many different places can sell you web-hosting, or dedicated servers, etc etc etc...
All I really need, is a fiber line going back to my CO I guess, and then some company needs to have equipment there for me to plug into..
To bad it would cost me an arm and a leg, and then some if I wanted to pay for this on my own...
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240 |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
·Site5.com
| reply to telcolackey
said by telcolackey :Not sure it is possible to make everyone happy. Top 1% is not happy that bandwidth is not 100mb, unlimited and free. Bottom 20% don't care about unlimited BW and want it cheaper. Middle of the road think the bandwidth is fine, but are not happy that they are subsidizing the top 1%'s DVD download library. Can't please them all. The only way to do that is to use a tiered pricing structure which Comcast is doing. Along with that though, they should be lifting bandwidth limitations for all users who get the top tier. |
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utahluge
join:2004-10-14
Draper, UT
 ·MSTAR
·On-Digital / JustR..
| reply to Skippy25
UTOPIA
UTOPIA
Welcome to the network where I get to choose the provider over my fiber line. (Re: Dialup comment) I have the freedom to choose from a handful of providers. Why do you think Utopia is having such a hard time making its way into new cities?? The ''Big Boys'' are scared out of their pants!! They are doing all they can to force city officials from going with Utopia. If more of us let our cities know we want Utopia then we can make it happen. I know this will only start to break ice in Utah but enough of you push for it in your states I am sure it would quickly grow. |
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o rly
@enta.net
| reply to Skippy25
Re: Sigh...
said by Skippy25 :That is why I call for one nationwide network that any provider of any service can "lease" to get to any customer in any location that is willing to pay for one of their services. At least that's one good thing about the evil UK. BT has one or more DSLAMs in nearly every telephone exchange that they own (something like 5564 exchanges have ADSL out of 5592), and they (obviously) have to wholesale it. This means that I can choose out of over 100 ISPs, and if I don't like them, I can change with minimal downtime.
Speeds are pretty good too - I have 8Mbit down, 832k up and for the most part I get them.
Things should get better when BT finally trundle out ADSL2+ in the next few years (the reason for their lateness being that they're ripping out their whole phone/DSL network and replacing it with a shiny new IP one). |
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espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to Skippy25
said by Skippy25 :That is why I call for one nationwide network that any provider of any service can "lease" to get to any customer in any location that is willing to pay for one of their services. You can get that today. You can order a DSx or OCx circuit from your local telco and have the end point be any carrier or ISP you wish. The problem is nobody but businesses and die-hard end-users are willing to pay for that kind of flexibility. (it comes at a steep price) |
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Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | Really, thats gives us one nationwide network not controlled by the current kingpins?
I think you missed the entire point and concept of my post. |
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espaeth
Misanthrope
Premium
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | Maybe so? Who are you suggesting would be responsible for operating this nationwide network? |
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mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to telcolackey
Can't please them all, therefore we can advertise whatever we want, and they get whatever we give them. How on earth does "you can't please them all" justify false advertising to everyone?
There is a simple solution here. Advertised data rates should include a percentage of time that the data rate is available. Don't spout BS about that's what you pay extra for on a business connection. Lower the uptime and availability numbers from the business connections. No more 784kb/6mb connections that run at that rate 10% of the time, unless you advertise it that way. If you advertise 90% availability, and it only reaches that rate 10% of the time, you deduct 80% from the bill. End of arguments. End of excuses. Tell the truth and you won't have to spend so much on lawyers. |
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