Re: charter being sued. in Rants, Raves, and Praise http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19958284 en Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:48:14 EDT Sat, 05 Dec 2009 15:48:14 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19990176 ykronic : "I saw good people leave there each night depressed, distraught, tearful, suicidal and dead. It is not a joke - it is fact, and had I not resigned when I did I would have pulled down into that myriad of despair as well."

As someone who's worked tech support in a call center and been down the suicide road when I was younger, I've seriously got to wonder what goes on in your head that you can put the 2 together like that. Yeah a call center is generally a crappy job, it's bureaucratic, the people running the center generally do so with their head up their rear, and 90% of the people that call in are miserable, pissed off, or bitchy. But if a job sucks you quit. If a person is honestly going to kill themselves they have a lot more issues in their life and with themselves than just working a dead end job.
Charter's not the devil nor one of his peons. It's just a company with the same business tactics of every other major corporation out there. Get over it.
Will this change your mind? I highly doubt it. But quite frankly that was one of the dumbest statements I've heard in a good long while.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19990176 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:03:13 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19983417 jarablue : Charter charges 80 dollars per month for 16/2 that will be in my area a YEAR from now, hopefully. Verizon offers 16/16meg symmetrical FIBER for 59 a month.

Charter is crap. No wonder Charter is afraid of Verizon. You would too if the girl liked you then a Officer in the Air Force showed up.

Charter will be gone in 5 years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19983417 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:55:54 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19976662 neofate : Interesting article, but doesn't surprise me.

I agree with all the sentiments that yes Charter is in debt, but so are thousands of other huge corporations. As long as they are consistently paying their creditors they are not in 'trouble'.

This suit is not , imo, what it might seem to be at first glance. Verizon doesn't want to kill Charter and gain nothing. They want to benefit in some way. It is simple leverage. If they can pull off a strong argument and the case itself seems to be leaning towards Verizon, Charter is likely to allow some agreements to be made.

Verizon stands to benefit through a host of potential arrangements between the two companies and infrastructure deployments. A smart move on Verizons point.

As for the argument that Charter doesn't have the funds to substantiate a long-term legal battle. That is incorrect. What is another half a billion on 19? If they felt they really needed to set a legal precedence here, for what ever reason, Charter could (and might) stick the battle out with equivalent legal teams.

Though, just from my own perspective, I see this as a more specific/regionalized attack than a national corporate one. In other words I don't see the phone service being completely changed nationally on Charters customers regardless of the outcome of this case.

Though as Tech Geek mentioned, nothing surprises me with legal battles these days. Justice is hard to find,.. It is a roll of the dice many times.

Personally, I think Charter is hanging in there 'allright'. I wouldn't mind Charter (in my area) being bought out by Comcast. Though I am not for lowering feasible competition. Though, (in myarea) we have AT&T with DirectTV/Dish vs Charter. No other cable companies are in direct competition. So a buyout in the Greater B'ham area would simply put the management and services in another companies hands. I simply believe Comcast and the like are a touch better managed as a whole.

This isn't based on any major research or fact,.. just some reading and gut feeling. Either way I am happy with services as they are 'generally'. The only thing I would like to see Charter do is (even with the debt) try and push further on the cutting edge of transitional technology instead of being a step behind a lot of the competition yet charging equivalent prices.

Time will tell.. but as alot have said,.. so many Charter haters (most customers) have used this 'Debt' argument for so long it really starts to lose its feasibility due to how long Charter has remained on its feet.
--
Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19976662 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:05:10 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19974485 MOTO6809 :
said by scoosdad See Profile :

said by jarablue See Profile :

Please Verizon, bury Charter and then deploy FIOS in Worcester. The town will thank you.
Sorry, ain't gonna happen anytime soon:

»www.worcestermagazine.com/content/view/2413/

Verizon says that the city is "too big" for them. They prefer to go into smaller towns and municipalities where they don't have to deal with infrastructure problems such as large apartment complexes, etc.
Charter invested millions of dollars into the Worcester system back in 1999-2001 time frame. Downtown Worcester alone was a nightmare.

With that being said, I don't think Verizon would dump a ton of money into it with just the hopes of getting some payback on their investment.

They will wait until it makes good business sense for them to build out Worcester. IMO]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19974485 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:30:56 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19972126 scoosdad :
said by jarablue See Profile :

Please Verizon, bury Charter and then deploy FIOS in Worcester. The town will thank you.
Sorry, ain't gonna happen anytime soon:

»www.worcestermagazine.com/content/view/2413/

Verizon says that the city is "too big" for them. They prefer to go into smaller towns and municipalities where they don't have to deal with infrastructure problems such as large apartment complexes, etc.
--
Worcester MA
Charter Pipeline 3M
Charter digital cable with HD
Vonage VOIP phone

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19972126 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:09:30 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19968522 anon :
said by rosiemeow See Profile :

You are absolutely correct. I am an ex-Charter employee, for one reason - I could not withstand the degradation I'd witnessed of my fellow teammates, most of whom were too fearful and blindsided to see that they as well as Charter's customers, were being sold down the river, also.

Charter banked on the fact that employees they hired could not add, and were being cheated out of hard earned commissions using scare tactics and intimidation to propagate their conspiracy of silence.

I saw good people leave there each night depressed, distraught, tearful, suicidal and dead. It is not a joke - it is fact, and had I not resigned when I did I would have pulled down into that myriad of despair as well.

It's not the money - it's the principal: The unethical business practices and tactics Charter has chosen will be their demise.

Thumbs up to Verizon and a high five.
Not too sound too harsh, but you'll find this in any call center environment. Sounds like you blame Charter for the fact you're only qualified to work in tech support. Spend more time on yourself, and less time worrying about the crappy call center job you left behind.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19968522 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 11:48:24 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19968033 markopoleo :
said by rosiemeow See Profile :

I may be dumb and do not deny that I am not. I did, after all, believe at the onset they were a reputable company and that was my mistake - and a big one at that.

We certainly do not expect anyone from Missouri (Charter's home town and Corporate Headquarters) to believe differently. Charter is, after all, the hand that feeds you. But it is also the hand that makes you so hungry you will wait for the scraps and occasional bones they will throw you and snap at anything threatening those scraps.

Sad indeed.
Reading everything you posted in this thread from you sounds like YOU got fired and want a bone to pick. You'll get no sympathy here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19968033 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 10:08:20 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966957 rosiemeow : I may be dumb and do not deny that I am not. I did, after all, believe at the onset they were a reputable company and that was my mistake - and a big one at that.

We certainly do not expect anyone from Missouri (Charter's home town and Corporate Headquarters) to believe differently. Charter is, after all, the hand that feeds you. But it is also the hand that makes you so hungry you will wait for the scraps and occasional bones they will throw you and snap at anything threatening those scraps.

Sad indeed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966957 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:11:18 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966929 skj : Moving this one over to the Rants and Raves forum since there isn't any help being sought here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966929 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:04:25 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966920 rosiemeow : And who isn't?

You are absolutely correct. I am an ex-Charter employee, for one reason - I could not withstand the degradation I'd witnessed of my fellow teammates, most of whom were too fearful and blindsided to see that they as well as Charter's customers, were being sold down the river, also.

Charter banked on the fact that employees they hired could not add, and were being cheated out of hard earned commissions using scare tactics and intimidation to propagate their conspiracy of silence.

I saw good people leave there each night depressed, distraught, tearful, suicidal and dead. It is not a joke - it is fact, and had I not resigned when I did I would have pulled down into that myriad of despair as well.

It's not the money - it's the principal: The unethical business practices and tactics Charter has chosen will be their demise.

Thumbs up to Verizon and a high five.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966920 Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:01:06 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966196 markopoleo :
said by SyNiSt3r See Profile :

i know that im wrong most of the time as has already been pointed out but how can anyone say that their debt doesnt hurt them. Its insane for anyone to say that charter is happy with its debt and that they are no worse off for having it. Any business would love to make money instead of losing it. its common sense. Also, Fwiw charter being sued has no made it to front page of dslpreports.
Again, they DO make money. They are obviously making money because staying in business. Just because you have loans does not mean you are in the poor house.

Making front page is not exactly proving your point to, considering Verizon is also suing others based on same thing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966196 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:29:19 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966170 markopoleo :
said by rosiemeow See Profile :

It is not Charter's debt that is sinking them. It was their ethics and integrity - aka, lack of.

Many companies prefer run in the red, and some prefer it that way. But they don't sell their soul to the devil.
That is the dumbest thing i ever heard in regards to business. That pretty much sums of Verizon, AT&T, IBM, Microsoft, GM, Ford, etc. You act like every company is on the straight and narrow besides Charter..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19966170 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:25:34 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965827 MrMike : You know claims of patent infringement and actual patent infringements are two different issues. They would have to go through a discovery process, which could be even more complicated if Charter has patents pending. Just because Verizon claims the 8 violations do not make it so. There have been many innovations where patent holders claim an infringement. If Charter were to have used a hardware configuration as compared to a software compilation of technologies, could invalidate the claim. Just hope that Charter did their homework regarding a patent and pending patent search, or we may be customers of Verizon or AT&T.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965827 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:23:37 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965468 rosiemeow : There is a reaon for thinning of herds. For survival and to ensure a strong and stable future for those who could could stay alive, otherwise the entire herd would face extinction. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link with Charter not only being the weakest, but the most corrupt. Verizon is the only one humane enough to put them out of their misery since they don't have the guts or integrity or remorse to know the damage they have done to themselves, their customers and their employees. Charter is a corporate sociopath.

Charter has violated ethics in every sense of the word and blatantly will continue to do so without conscience until they drown in their own feces. I have no pity for that corporation, but I do for the unfortunate collateral damage taking their employees and customers down with them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965468 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:29:39 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965393 jarablue : Please Verizon, bury Charter and then deploy FIOS in Worcester. The town will thank you.

Please.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965393 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:18:22 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965351 anon : Here they are, fun stuff. like transmitting packets.



The eight Verizon patents in the Charter and Cox suits include the two Vonage was found to have infringed, which cover translating information for routing phone calls over packet-based networks: U.S. Patents No. 6,104,711 and 6,282,574.

The six other Verizon patents in the lawsuits cover methods and systems for:

* quality of service for a communications session (6,970,930);
* quality of service in a hybrid network (6,335,927);
* enhanced signaling over hybrid networks (6,430,275);
* network session management (6,137,869);
* inter-carrier signaling for connectivity between packet-based and circuit-switched networks (6,292,481); and
* providing services in a communications network, including a universal directory function (6,636,597).



Again, I doubt Charter and Cox wrote any qos...this should get interesting.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965351 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:12:42 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965314 anon : That is why i said i wonder how it infringes. Here are some fundamental differences:

1. Cable CO VoIP using a MTA, Coax directly in. Vonage does not. Arris makes the MTAs, do not know who makes Vonage. How is it that Arris is not getting sued? Must not be a patent infringement on the device.

that leaves:

2. Transport. Charter uses systems and CMTS from other vendors, such as Cisco and Arris. Charter owns some fiber, Vonage did not require any of this. Again, Vonage had no CMTS, I would assume just a switch somewhere and leased bandwidth, and probably a TOD or something.

Combining those 2, leaves me to wonder what else is in common? The patent system is complete trash already anyway.

I mean, how is Charter or anyone infringing on a patent? If I buy a car from you, and you infringed on a patent, you are getting sued not me. ( I am Charter, you are Arris ,metaphorically speaking)

Guess I need to go read what the patent is for....]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19965314 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:05:44 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19964999 Lazlow : Synist3r

Look again, the suit is on the news page.

Whoaaa

I do not think there is all that much difference between the two systems. Charter/Comcast just run theirs' over a private network and Vonage run their's over a public one. Voip is pretty much Voip.

While I agree it is a ploy I do not agree that they compete in all that many areas. Hopefully they will before too long. For the most part there is not much competition between any HSI providers in most areas(some on the lower speed stuff). With FIOS and Uverse growing, it is changing a little bit.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19964999 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 18:14:30 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963935 anon : Interesting Article,

Charters VoIP is not like Vonage, so im wondering how it infringes ( allegedly )

Charters voip is like comcasts, and they arent getting sued.

Think this is a ploy .. since they are direct competitors in the same areas. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963935 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:41:09 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963885 SyNiSt3r : i know that im wrong most of the time as has already been pointed out but how can anyone say that their debt doesnt hurt them. Its insane for anyone to say that charter is happy with its debt and that they are no worse off for having it. Any business would love to make money instead of losing it. its common sense. Also, Fwiw charter being sued has no made it to front page of dslpreports.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963885 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:31:05 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963841 antioch : uh oh... conflict of interest for me...

verizon fios employee using a triple play with charter =D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963841 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:19:38 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963361 anon :
said by rosiemeow See Profile :

It is not Charter's debt that is sinking them. It was their ethics and integrity - aka, lack of.

Many companies prefer run in the red, and some prefer it that way. But they don't sell their soul to the devil.
Just your opinion, or what are you basing that on? Let me guess .. ex call center employee.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963361 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:42:50 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963213 Sammer : It's simple, Verizon knows that Charter can't afford this battle or any court battle at this time. They're looking for a quick settlement from Charter without much resistance. They also wanted the suit filed before any potential Chapter 11 filing. The conference call at the end of month may very well include an announcement that Charter is refinancing it's debt.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19963213 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:13:59 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962823 rosiemeow : Nah, Charter is a flea on ATTs back. Not even worth the waste of their breath.

Charter has sunk itself - maybe Verizon has a humanitarian streak in them an simply wishes to put Charter out of it's misery. : )]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962823 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:53:59 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962805 rosiemeow : It is not Charter's debt that is sinking them. It was their ethics and integrity - aka, lack of.

Many companies prefer run in the red, and some prefer it that way. But they don't sell their soul to the devil. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962805 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:49:40 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962785 rosiemeow : Yeah, well I got spammed last week. Backtracked it to this company - you might want to look at their partners, and their ethics and the methods they use to get their methods across. My personal information was pulled from a well known employment agency that lists on a well known employment site. I'm too tired to do the math, but I'm sure someone else out there can.

»www.rightnow.com/partners/

Sure we all want to pay lower prices. But what are you willing to sacrifice? That's an individual decision only each of us can make.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962785 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:45:07 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962669 Tech Geek2 : well.. considering that it has been reported on multichannel news i'd say this "rumor" has more validity.

(reference) »www.multichannel.com/article/CA6530843.html

I think its a bunch of BS ... but in today's lawsuit happy world nothing surprises me anymore. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962669 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:18:30 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962592 DadCooks : FWIW, I just searched the Wall Street Journal and there is no reference to a suit (pending or otherwise) between Charter and Verizon, so I would place this in the rumor pile...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962592 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:59:43 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962575 anon :
said by markopoleo See Profile :

You are so misinformed. Why don't people understand 19 billion in debt is not a huge deal for huge companies, other huge companies owe BILLIONS in debt and have been around forever.
It's the only argument the anti-Charter drones have had for the last 5 years. Just let them keep using it. For some reson, being totally ignorant to the understandings of Wall Street don't seem to bother them.

said by zed260 See Profile :

this will probably bankrupt charter what do you wanna bet
Well lets see, the sued Vonage and won a measly $120 Million. You really think, if if Verizon wins the suit, which they won't, it will impact Charter's bottom line? Sure, I'll take your bet. You're talking petty cash here man. Seriously, save the money you are so eager to give away and buy a clue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962575 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:53:05 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962425 markopoleo :
said by SyNiSt3r See Profile :

I just wonder why they bother with charter. Is a move to
try and finish them off? Seriously, Charter has no money.
They are 19 Billion in debt as it is. Its hard to get anything from someone who has nothing. Id say judging from
the past lawsuits charter = screwed and will lose.
You are so misinformed. Why don't people understand 19 billion in debt is not a huge deal for huge companies, other huge companies owe BILLIONS in debt and have been around forever. Charter is obviously not in trouble, because they are paying off the debt, creditors and share holders are HAPPY with the company.

Just a fyi, Verizon itself owes billions in loans..you wanna cry about the downfall of Verizon to?

The age old saying "you gotta spend money to make money" strives in big business..verizon has on loan billions for FIOS alone.

So sick of hearing "Charter is so in debt they are going under". I have been hearing this for FOUR years now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962425 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 08:51:27 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962234 cork1958 : No big deal. Never went to Charter phone anyway! But, maybe this will help to get Verizon in here and remove the filters they have in the way of me being able to get their full speed. Or, maybe Comcast can get in here, not that I want that though!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19962234 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 06:50:33 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19961764 LowRider : I could be wrong but i think Verizon tried suing another company awhile back and they go turned down, but i could be wrong. but i think they sued them on something else and won.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19961764 Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:24:42 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19961448 Lazlow : I wonder if Verizon could accept some Charter's territory as part of the settlement and thereby bypass regulatory approval?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19961448 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 23:58:18 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19959941 zed260 : this will probably bankrupt charter what do you wanna bet]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19959941 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:02:26 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19959455 anon :
said by SyNiSt3r See Profile :

Id say judging from
the past lawsuits charter = screwed and will lose.
you = wrong (as usual)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19959455 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:27:38 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19958588 SyNiSt3r : I just wonder why they bother with charter. Is a move to
try and finish them off? Seriously, Charter has no money.
They are 19 Billion in debt as it is. Its hard to get anything from someone who has nothing. Id say judging from
the past lawsuits charter = screwed and will lose. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19958588 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 15:15:41 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19958284 sancraig : Sounds like Verizon is picking off the weak ones of the herd. I mean the ones without the finances to fight a prolonged legal battle. If I remember right it's a vague patent their using for these suits.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19958284 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:31:28 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19958113 scoosdad : Verizon has already successfully sued Vonage over the same thing, and won big money judgements. It was only a matter of time before they started going after the 'triple play' providers, and so Charter becomes Verizon's next target.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19958113 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 14:11:11 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19957407 SyNiSt3r : I seriously doubt verizon thinks so. If you patent anything and someone uses it without permission then you have the right to ask them to stop. Charter should have made sure they were not in any violation before offering this service to people.
Intel is being sued for something to do with core 2 duo and violation of a patent too.
Kinda crazy]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19957407 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:21:23 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19957215 sudogreg : so these verizon lawyers want to
"Verizon is also asking for a court order blocking St. Louis-based Charter from using the technology."

meaning all people with charter phone service would be without a phone. thats a load of crap if you ask me]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19957215 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:49:08 EDT Re: charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19957173 LowRider : not a surprise its Verizon. Next week AT&T. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19957173 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:43:23 EDT charter being sued. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19956887 SyNiSt3r : »www.thestar.com/Business/article/301595]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19956887 Fri, 08 Feb 2008 11:02:37 EDT