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grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
1 edit | reply to Warez_Zealot
Re: Green Party of Sweeden - another name for communists
How are the real rich taking from society? The RIAA are not a valid example since they steal from society they do not make tangible products they only extort money from people. As for "the rich" who do you mean specifically? As I recall the so called rich employ the "poor and middle class" to make the products that are bought.
The US was founded on personal liberty and the notion of being a slave to society is just as disgusting as any of the so called government abuses that go on today. The difference is that the redistribution of wealth factor has that nice little altruism going for it. If you could keep more of your taxes you could just pay for your own secondary education instead of having someone else pick up the tab. One way or another somebody pays for it, since there is no free money in the government. At best you are stealing the resources of those who have no interest in a higher education (higher education doesn't immediately mean a smarter populace, it just means a populace that can learn and be trained like a dog to do tasks). | |
Warez_Zealot
Rural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19
japan
2 edits | said by grandpinaple  :How are the real rich taking from society? The RIAA are not a valid example since they steal from society they do not make tangible products they only extort money from people. As for "the rich" who do you mean specifically? As I recall the so called rich employ the "poor and middle class" to make the products that are bought. The US was founded on personal liberty and the notion of being a slave to society is just as disgusting as any of the so called government abuses that go on today. The difference is that the redistribution of wealth factor has that nice little altruism going for it. If you could keep more of your taxes you could just pay for your own secondary education instead of having someone else pick up the tab. One way or another somebody pays for it, since there is no free money in the government. At best you are stealing the resources of those who have no interest in a higher education (higher education doesn't immediately mean a smarter populace, it just means a populace that can learn and be trained like a dog to do tasks). I know American news is heavily censored (not by gov, but the rich who all own the networks), but you can't be serious on these comments. Manufacturing jobs are all overseas, and now you guys are loosing jobs in the service sector.
Anyways, your 2nd paragraph makes me laugh. What's the minimum wage in the USA now? Like $4-8/Hr? Americans have mortgages they can't afford, credit card debts the can't pay , once inflation kicks in all those cheap Walmart goods will cost way more, and cost of basic living will increase.
I'm sure living off a meager household income of 40k - 80k (I assume that must be around the average) will allow for educational savings too. (especially when you have more than one child)
Anyways, the rich/gov depend on people like you to sit back while they steal from society, and once everything is gone and you guys are left holding the bag it's too late once you clue in to the true reality of things. (no jobs, debt and stuck in poverty stricken country in self imposed recession) | |
grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
3 edits | Stop grouping all the rich into one category, it's just as full of fallacy as those you are criticizing. The rich you refer to are not the real rich, they are the thieves. You have yet to specify which people you are even talking about, some examples that aren't the usual Bush and Cheney bashing would be nice because last I checked that is a small group from one sector of the US economy.
While the US system may have its imperfections we at least still have some sliver of opportunity for social mobility, unlike the heavily socialized European countries (cough Germany). Where everyone is nannied into submission.
I like how you put minimum wage at $4-8 an hour. There is a big difference between 4 and 8. Nonetheless, the federal is $5.85, but it changes from state to state. This is a moot point anyway because anyone with basic knowledge of economics would know that minimum wage adjustment does nothing to help the poor as inflation will be one step ahead, because minimum wage causes inflation to begin with.
Oh and please cut the America is censored ad hominem bullshit. I haven't read a newspaper or watched network news in years. I watch the news for entertainment just like it is targeted to be (no not the violent stuff). Occasionally I read the newspaper, but it is incredibly easy to filter facts from opinions. My mind doesn't even register opinions anymore.
Americans have mortgages they can't afford because they were duped by the the lenders, but since the concept of personal responsibility is gone in this country we blame it on the big bad megacorps who are the ones now taking the hit anyway. Well not exactly they are getting bailed out, but don't you worry they'll be back again with pie in the sky deals and the American consumer will once again have his 15 seconds of fortune and then the cycle happens all over again! Everybody loses.
40-80k is not meager depending on where you are, especially if that sum is not taxable, which was my original point.
Don't get me wrong I don't support the present structure whole heartedly, but what you were advocating was putting a temporary solution by ostracizing the group that creates the jobs in the first place. | |
GreasedJesus
@net.br
| The basis of real social mobility is access to higher education regardless of income, not the largely illusory "American Dream" or whatever you're alluding to.
I don't believe the case with social mobility in Germany (and Britain too for that matter) is primarily because of taxes and government policy. I think it is mostly based in history and culture. The class distinction is much more mentally alive in those countries than compared to the USA, where the whole country (almost) was populated by immigrants and it didn't matter much if your last name started with "von". | |
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