dadkins
Living on a Blu Planet
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Ads?
Ads? We no see no stinking ads!  |
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Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs:
 ·Comcast Digital Vo..
 ·Comcast
·AT&T CallVantage
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by dadkins  :Ads? We no see no stinking ads! Can we say Adblock Plus? |
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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
·Comcast
| So why do the rates keep rising and rising? This is unfair and the customer doesn't have a say in this.
Many people don't have another option and if they need / want HSI they must go with these greedy ISPs.
Anyone want to start an ISP of VPNs or something? just use my HSI account to tunnel into another network and do what I want with all my privacy intact?
I know severla people will yell "USE TOR" but in my opinion Tor SUCKS too much damn work and slows down my surfing. |
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wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | reply to Chris 313
Bingo. I will NEVER click them, so I will block them. The net effect to websites who rely on advertising $$ == 0.
cw |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to dadkins
Nor do I! However, what NebuAD is going to do, is essentially inject bogus content into legit website content. It will not be possible to differentiate between adverts and legit content.
So if you allow popups from one of your favorite sites, then NebuAD can also raise popup adverts. The same goes with scripting. I allow DSLREPORTS to execute scripts, because I trust DSLREPORTS; must I now trust NebuAD? Or do I disallow DSLREPORTS, greatly diminishing it's value?
The only way around this nonsense is a greater use of TOR and other proxies.
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Chiyo
said by Chiyo :I know severla people will yell "USE TOR" but in my opinion Tor SUCKS too much damn work and slows down my surfing. Very true. Perhaps what we need is a grass-roots consumer user movement to enhance the tor network. If we all give up just a little bit of bandwidth, we could, as a community of interest, make NebuAd as well as illegal government surveillance irrelevant.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to TamaraB
quote:
Nor do I! However, what NebuAD is going to do, is essentially inject bogus content into legit website content. It will not be possible to differentiate between adverts and legit content.
Technically no that's not what they're doing. They developed a technology for WISPS that was incorrectly used by one Texas ISP.
Their primary focus is behavioral advertising, which yes, has its own problems. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Karl Bode :Technically no that's not what they're doing...... OK, so here I am surfing DSLR, the article states that NebuAd will "target" ads to me. How is that possible, unless they alter packets to my "established (Cisco-Speak)" connection with DSLR?
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| The ads are delivered in much the same way traditional banner ads are now -- the ads themselves are just targeted more specifically to your interests. In other words the DPI hardware should be able to notice you're interested in Hawaii and SUVs as opposed to the Virgin Islands and compact cars, and the ads you see will reflect this.
It's not really ad delivery that's changing, it's anonymized customer surveillance that's evolving. Again, I think there's plenty of problems here too, but NebuAD is not injecting ads over the top of existing content. |
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MagMan
Life is simpler when you tell the truth.
Premium
join:2003-10-01
Westlake, OH
·AT&T Midwest
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to dadkins
said by dadkins :Ads? We no see no stinking ads! Agreed defiantly no stinking ads.
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"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is." |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :The ads are delivered in much the same way traditional banner ads are now -- the ads themselves are just targeted more specifically to your interests. I understand how my interests are captured. NebuAD is using DPI instead of cookies, that's clear.
It's not really ad delivery that's changing, it's anonymized customer surveillance that's evolving. Again, I think there's plenty of problems here too, but NebuAD is not injecting ads over the top of existing content.
Call me dense (because I often am), but!!! Let's say I run a site, and have contracted with an advert firm (like google's AdSense) to place ads on my site. How can NebuAD control the ad content my users see without becoming a "man in the middle"?? Don't forget, NebuAD contracts with ISPs, not content providers.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | reply to dadkins
would it help if we used another dns server besides our default isp's dns servers?
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3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to Chris 313
Can you say how do you fight the tide ?
Ad block plus only works if you know the ip. With this equipment they can forge the packets and make ads from a different ip every time. Not to mention they can use the devices ip or another ip from say I dunno the gateway of your head end or cloud and you don't allow ads you don't get on the web.
Pretty crafty devices.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to TamaraB
Problem here is the isp owns the stream.
Just like Sandvine , they can forge tcp packets with DPI , it depends on how crafty they get.
I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are. And I am sure they didn't give him decent details so I don't blame him.
With DPI they can pick off a packet destined for say google. You searched for dog leashes, they will not instead of showing you the ads from google intercept and send you off to another ad. They will tack their ads onto googles.
Nice knowing this , however these devices can forge packets as well. So now they can see you blocked an ad of theirs, and go and inject a redirection on the fly so you think the ads are from google , but are being served up via a redirection from their local ad server.
I have to do this at work a lot to keep people off youtube and other sites like it. It is wrong but it's a place of business. These folks are doing the same on a isp that we pay for , not nice.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | reply to jgkolt
No. |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to wentlanc
said by wentlanc :Bingo. I will NEVER click them, so I will block them. The net effect to websites who rely on advertising $$ == 0. cw Net effect is that you are still freeloading and using bandwith. Bandwith isn't free Einstien. It's people that use adblock is why we stupid crap like this coming along. on day most of the internet will belike cable and you'll have to subscribe to every site you want to visit. Thanks Adblockers. |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
| bf i think you are missing the point. We don't want isp's injecting ads where the content creators didn't design them to be. Granite we dont want them at all but this new technique for adding ads to a page is sneaky and almost adaware ish.
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3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me |
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wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| reply to BF69
If I never visit your site, and never click on your ad, then perhaps you can explain how I'm freeloading?
You're right, bandwidth is not free. I'm paying for mine. Why do you expect me to pay for yours? If you can't turn a profit, then go out of business. I'm not obligated to support you.
cw |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to BosstonesOwn
quote:
I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are.
Certainly not my intent. The potential for abuse here is vast. But injection over the top of existing advertising relationships is not happening - yet.
I'd bet you're 100% correct that ultimately Ad-blocking applications are targeted and conquered.
I also am consistently annoyed that providers whine about funding upgrades and p2p users when they're consistently finding these new revenue streams without lowering prices. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to dadkins
Blocking ads with Adblock Plus (or some other means) is fine if not having them on your pages is all you care about.
But that's not the main concern of many people about this service. Others also care about the invasion of privacy. They prefer not to have a device at the ISP collecting the data on their web activity so it can be sold by a company they never asked to have watching them. |
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