Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | reply to RadioDoc
Re: Ads?
$40-50 VoIP helps too I'm sure. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to espaeth
I would suspect some of that non-price-increase has been borne by cable TV subs. They are not prohibited from cross-subsidy.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
 ·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
 ·Comcast
 ·Embarq
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode  :I also am consistently annoyed that providers whine about funding upgrades and p2p users when they're consistently finding these new revenue streams without lowering prices. I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
Comcast, for example, hasn't raised prices in at least the last 6 years, meanwhile inflation has marched on. If you adjust for inflation then the price does indeed go down each year, and speeds have increased from 1.5/3mbps to 6/8mbps over that same period. |
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espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
·voip.ms
·Vitelity VOIP
·Callcentric
·VoiceStick
·ViaTalk
·Comcast
·Embarq
| reply to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn :Just like Sandvine , they can forge tcp packets with DPI , it depends on how crafty they get. Puking out a copy of a captured packet with the RST bit set to 1 and injecting viable content into an existing TCP session and having it properly render are completely different scenarios.
You're talking about the difference between building a paper airplane and building a space shuttle. To do the ad injection you would have to pass all port-80 traffic through content engines which could adjust the composition of the layer7 data to ensure proper rendering by web browsers. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Doctor Four
said by Doctor Four :Funny this is the same logic (or lack thereof) used by spammers to justify flooding our email with their crap. Wrong! It's the exact opposite! Spammers are stealing and riding the bandwidth which WE pay for to flood us with their adverts and wares. I pay my ISP for bandwidth, and spammers are using my paid resources to force ads on me.
This is exactly what this system is attempting to do. They are not any different than the spammers. You got it exactly backwards.
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to dualsub2006
said by dualsub2006 :... NoScript won't if you configure it right. They can collect all of my browsing habits that they want as I'll never see their ads. Not so! You allow scripts here on dslr, if not, you can't use the "tools". So, a script comes to your browser, with an advert, it is forged to look like it came from dslr, you WILL see it ... there is no way to stop this!
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to BF69
said by BF69 :... Net effect is that you are still freeloading and using bandwith. Bandwith isn't free Einstien. ... Freeloading? What utter stupid nonsense! I pay dearly for my bandwidth! You get it free? Your bandwidth is paid for by advertising? What ISP do you use? I would love to know. I would gladly see adverts if I got a rebate on my bandwidth charges...
Einstein? More like dumbfkof!
Get real!
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH | reply to Doctor Four
Not at all. I'm not trying to profit from anyone, and I'm only using bandwidth of websites that are making themselves available. Good try though. |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to wentlanc
said by wentlanc :You're right, bandwidth is not free. I'm paying for mine. Why do you expect me to pay for yours? If you can't turn a profit, then go out of business. I'm not obligated to support you. cw Funny this is the same logic (or lack thereof) used by
spammers to justify flooding our email with their crap.
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"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY | reply to BosstonesOwn
Adblock would likely let it past, but NoScript won't if you configure it right. They can collect all of my browsing habits that they want as I'll never see their ads. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to dadkins
Blocking ads with Adblock Plus (or some other means) is fine if not having them on your pages is all you care about.
But that's not the main concern of many people about this service. Others also care about the invasion of privacy. They prefer not to have a device at the ISP collecting the data on their web activity so it can be sold by a company they never asked to have watching them. |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to BosstonesOwn
quote:
I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are.
Certainly not my intent. The potential for abuse here is vast. But injection over the top of existing advertising relationships is not happening - yet.
I'd bet you're 100% correct that ultimately Ad-blocking applications are targeted and conquered.
I also am consistently annoyed that providers whine about funding upgrades and p2p users when they're consistently finding these new revenue streams without lowering prices. |
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wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH
| reply to BF69
If I never visit your site, and never click on your ad, then perhaps you can explain how I'm freeloading?
You're right, bandwidth is not free. I'm paying for mine. Why do you expect me to pay for yours? If you can't turn a profit, then go out of business. I'm not obligated to support you.
cw |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
| reply to BF69
bf i think you are missing the point. We don't want isp's injecting ads where the content creators didn't design them to be. Granite we dont want them at all but this new technique for adding ads to a page is sneaky and almost adaware ish.
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3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to wentlanc
said by wentlanc :Bingo. I will NEVER click them, so I will block them. The net effect to websites who rely on advertising $$ == 0. cw Net effect is that you are still freeloading and using bandwith. Bandwith isn't free Einstien. It's people that use adblock is why we stupid crap like this coming along. on day most of the internet will belike cable and you'll have to subscribe to every site you want to visit. Thanks Adblockers. |
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to jgkolt
No. |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to TamaraB
Problem here is the isp owns the stream.
Just like Sandvine , they can forge tcp packets with DPI , it depends on how crafty they get.
I think Karl is making these devices a little nicer then they really are. And I am sure they didn't give him decent details so I don't blame him.
With DPI they can pick off a packet destined for say google. You searched for dog leashes, they will not instead of showing you the ads from google intercept and send you off to another ad. They will tack their ads onto googles.
Nice knowing this , however these devices can forge packets as well. So now they can see you blocked an ad of theirs, and go and inject a redirection on the fly so you think the ads are from google , but are being served up via a redirection from their local ad server.
I have to do this at work a lot to keep people off youtube and other sites like it. It is wrong but it's a place of business. These folks are doing the same on a isp that we pay for , not nice.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
| reply to Chris 313
Can you say how do you fight the tide ?
Ad block plus only works if you know the ip. With this equipment they can forge the packets and make ads from a different ip every time. Not to mention they can use the devices ip or another ip from say I dunno the gateway of your head end or cloud and you don't allow ads you don't get on the web.
Pretty crafty devices.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | reply to dadkins
would it help if we used another dns server besides our default isp's dns servers?
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3 free for you/3 free for me: Free Stock Trades : PM Me |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Brooklyn NYC
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :The ads are delivered in much the same way traditional banner ads are now -- the ads themselves are just targeted more specifically to your interests. I understand how my interests are captured. NebuAD is using DPI instead of cookies, that's clear.
It's not really ad delivery that's changing, it's anonymized customer surveillance that's evolving. Again, I think there's plenty of problems here too, but NebuAD is not injecting ads over the top of existing content.
Call me dense (because I often am), but!!! Let's say I run a site, and have contracted with an advert firm (like google's AdSense) to place ads on my site. How can NebuAD control the ad content my users see without becoming a "man in the middle"?? Don't forget, NebuAD contracts with ISPs, not content providers.
Bob
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Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. |
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