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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
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reply to FFH

Re: OptOut creates cookies with faireagle name

said by FFH:

Also adblock plus, with the Easylist subscription, blocks ads from both nebuad.com and faireagle.com.

But the ads won't be coming from nebuad.com or from faireagle.com, they will "appear" to be coming from the site you are surfing.

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by TamaraB:

said by FFH:

Also adblock plus, with the Easylist subscription, blocks ads from both nebuad.com and faireagle.com.

But the ads won't be coming from nebuad.com or from faireagle.com, they will "appear" to be coming from the site you are surfing.

Bob
I think you are wrong. Because my adblock plus list of hits lists both of those web domains as showing blocked hits. Unless you can show proof somewhere that says it works as you claim.
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
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join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
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said by FFH:

I think you are wrong.
I certainly hope I am DEAD wrong! But, after reading the article twice, I can't technically grok how this system is to work other than altering packet content.

Because my adblock plus list of hits lists both of those web domains as showing blocked hits.
I don't doubt it. But there are dozens of reasons for this to happen. Is NebuAd active at your ISP? The article intimates this is in the early stage of deployment.

Unless you can show proof somewhere that says it works as you claim.
The only thing I know about NebuAd is what is written in Karl's article. But the mere fact that NebuAd will "inject" ads to me, and that "cookies" will not be used, leads me to surmise there has to be some packet alteration going on. How else can they do what they claim they can do?

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 edit
If they are being injected, they are coming from a different address.
At best, the ad will be seen here once and *I*(if I have to) will blacklist that address.

Once blacklisted, anything coming from that address is not allowed a connection.
I will see a blank area at the most!

See pic...
Opera. Most of these are by default - I didn't put them there!
Several of them I did put in there.

We won't say anything about AdMuncher that is but a click away.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
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join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
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·Clearwire Wireless
said by dadkins:

... At best, the ad will be seen here once and *I*(if I have to) will blacklist that address.
By "here" I assume you mean dslreports.com. So, how can an ad appear here unless Justin agrees to have the ad placed here?

How can a link to NebuAD's "targeted" ads, or cookie for that matter, even appear on a dslreports.com web page unless the page is altered in some manner during transit?

Bob
--
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43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.


dadkins
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Hercules, CA
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1 edit
said by TamaraB:

said by dadkins:

... At best, the ad will be seen here once and *I*(if I have to) will blacklist that address.
By "here" I assume you mean dslreports.com. So, how can an ad appear here unless Justin agrees to have the ad placed here?

How can a link to NebuAD's "targeted" ads, or cookie for that matter, even appear on a dslreports.com web page unless the page is altered in some manner during transit?

Bob
No. Here means *here at this house on these machines*.
If I go to some site that has an ad visible that I wish to make "go away" because it is not already blocked, I simply look at the properties of that ad and add it's main address to the blacklist.
Refresh the page - ad is *usually* history!

If is a persistant changing ad, AdMuncher is still at my disposal as well. It hates everything!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
said by dadkins:

said by TamaraB:

said by dadkins:

... At best, the ad will be seen here once and *I*(if I have to) will blacklist that address.
By "here" I assume you mean dslreports.com. So, how can an ad appear here unless Justin agrees to have the ad placed here?

How can a link to NebuAD's "targeted" ads, or cookie for that matter, even appear on a dslreports.com web page unless the page is altered in some manner during transit?

Bob
No. Here means *here at this house on these machines*.
If I go to some site that has an ad visible that I wish to make "go away" because it is not already blocked, I simply look at the properties of that ad and add it's main address to the blacklist.
Refresh the page - ad is *usually* history!

If is a persistant changing ad, AdMuncher is still at my disposal as well. It hates everything!
And here is where DPI and packet forging has you beat.

Let's say you see the ad you add it to your blocked list. The device could be set up to basically say fook you , your not blocking what we are getting paid to show you. Now they can intercept the request out and send you a packet back saying they are google and serve you some nice fat ads from the local server pool instead of from google , and your browser thinks it is google.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"


TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
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reply to dadkins
Sure, I do the same with AdBlock, with NoScript, and with my browser (firefox) set to NOT accept any cookies unless I specifically allow the site to do so, and no popups except from certain allowed sites.

The problem I have with the NebuAD system is clearly spelled out by their own site:

NebuAd opens new ad-based revenue streams for service providers...
To date, the role of service providers (ISPs) has been limited to enabling, but not participating in, the online advertising revenue ecosystem. NebuAd creates a greater market opportunity for the entire online advertising ecosystem, opening new revenue possibilities for ISPs that preserve and enhance the interests of the advertisers, publishers and consumers on their networks.
revenue ecosystem == oxymoron!

Sounds very intrusive to me, but then I am basically a paranoid person.

Even if this system were only used to target ads for existing advert companies via an anonymous "hash token"; which token is generated within the appliance itself, how long will it take the NSA to demand the un-anonymous data? This could very well be a back-door to our data-rapacious government to circumvent current warrantless wire taping laws.

Bob

--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
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Cape Elizebeth ME.
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dadkins
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
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3 edits
reply to BosstonesOwn
Click for full size
MSN
Click for full size
Opera's Block Content
Click for full size
AdMuncher doing what it does
Click for full size
one of the Options tabs
Click for full size
google? 25 instances of *things* to block/remove
Doesn't matter. I can block any image/ad on a webpage.
See pic #1
Msn

See pic #2
Opera can nuke stuff at will.

Or...
See pic #3
AdMuncher killing - ads.

»www.admuncher.com/
Works with any browser

*IF* anything were to get past, it's not too hard to add it's address to one of my blacklists(or all of them).

Ad farms/*services* start pushing, people will start pushing back.
Got an ad infested site and it fails? Oh well! Next!
Ads start appearing for no reason, kill 'em all! No sweat!

Now, there are a couple sites that I am a member of and I do my part by ALLOWING their ads and even clicking on them!

For surfing... El Nuko!

EDIT: Added a couple screenies of AdMuncher.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..

join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

1 recommendation

Geez. How come I'm the only one who has been called a freeloader, and every content provider in the world will be out of business because of "people like me"!!

Go dadkins, go!!


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to dadkins
Adblock Plus on Firefox does a good job too on that MSn page:


wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..

join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

1 recommendation

If you want a great example of Adblock Plus at work, hit MySpace sometime. They load the hell out of the flashy, noise making ads. You also cut the page load time to a few seconds instead of almost 20.


RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to FFH
said by FFH:

Because my adblock plus list of hits lists both of those web domains as showing blocked hits.
Are you saying Comcast has already implemented this?
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

reply to wentlanc
said by wentlanc:

Geez. How come I'm the only one who has been called a freeloader, and every content provider in the world will be out of business because of "people like me"!!

Go dadkins, go!!
Don't trip wentlanc!
When I am surfing, *I* decide what I allow on my screen - no one else!
*I* pay for my connection, I decide what comes across it!
Bandwidth aint free(as people say - both sides of this), I agree!
I'm paying for mine, I have SOME say in what gets done with my bandwidth, don't I?

If *I* feel some site is getting stupid with the amount of ad-per-page ratio... I'll remove a few.
They get ignorant, I'll nuke every freakin ad they throw at me!
They die, tough shitsky!
I go to the next site that is not being so damned pushy!

This NebuAd horseshit? Byte Me!
What are they going to do if I go text only?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
reply to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc:

said by FFH:

Because my adblock plus list of hits lists both of those web domains as showing blocked hits.
Are you saying Comcast has already implemented this?
I have no idea. Nebuad does business with many companies - not just ISPs. So the ads that got blocked may have come from anywhere.
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wentlanc
You Can't Fix Dumb..

join:2003-07-30
Maineville, OH

1 recommendation

reply to dadkins
I wish I could give you more than one thumbs up. In another post on the google 404 issue but almost the same conversation, I got an eyeful.... Just wondering why nobody felt the need to do the same to you. It must be the scary avatar!

said by 88615298:

said by wentlanc:

This is the choice of the user. The web developer can be as pissed as they want to, but what I choose to put on my machine to customize MY internet is my choice.

Just like ad blockers. Developers are pissed about them too because less people may click on their ads to help pay for the site. I've never clicked one, and I don't intend to, so I removed them completely to save the bandwidth, and my eyeballs. I'm allowed to customize my experience on the internet, right?
So everything for FREE right? Everyone is suppoed to work hard and spend money so you can enjoy life for FREE? moe adblocker will mean MORE ads less content. And eventually nothing but subscription based content. Personally I'd rather put up with ads than have to pay subscription to every site I use.

NOTHING is on the internet now for you pure entertainment. Whether you like it or not there is a profit motive involved. If they can't make money by having ads because you block them they WILL get you to pay somehow or you'll do without. The sooner you learn this the better off you'll be.
Run! The content is falling!!


RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
reply to FFH
OK. The way you wrote that it looked like you were saying you were seeing the spoofed traffic on your Comcast connection showing up in Adblock logs.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by RadioDoc:

OK. The way you wrote that it looked like you were saying you were seeing the spoofed traffic on your Comcast connection showing up in Adblock logs.
I am seeing that ads were blocked from nebuad & faireagle domains. I have no idea whether the ads were due to some deal with Comcast or with some other NON-ISP company.
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RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
Funny that I'm not getting anything from either of them here. Thanks for the clarification though.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.


TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Clearwire Wireless
reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:

Doesn't matter. I can block any image/ad on a webpage......
This is naive! If an ad comes from dslr.net and it is a java ad, you can block it without blocking your dslreports security scan? Or speed test? Please educate us as to how you can accomplish this magical feat.

Bob
--
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43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.


dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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Hercules, CA
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4 edits
Click for full size
Ads
Click for full size
Blocky blocky
Click for full size
No more ads! Neat, aint it?
said by TamaraB:

This is naive! If an ad comes from dslr.net and it is a java ad, you can block it without blocking your dslreports security scan? Or speed test? Please educate us as to how you can accomplish this magical feat.

Bob
Get Opera.
Right click on a page with ads and select Block Content.
Select the item you no longer wish to see by clicking it.

Click "Done".
POS is no longer displayed.
Everything else, including Java, will still work fine.

AdMuncher - most likely will kill the ad before it even shows.
If not, hover over the ad and get the address to the server delivering it.
Blacklist that server - no more ad!
Everything else, including Java, will still work fine.

You're new to this ad blocking thing, huh? No worries!

EDIT: How it works with Opera - See pics!

--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
dadkins you don't get it.

they reason you can block it is based on image words and ip.

Let's say they decide to really throw some ads at you. They control the data stream and you have no recourse.

Example ads come from say 128.0.0.254 if this is your internet gateway , and you block any traffic , you go no where on the net , or limp around like a wounded duck. Since they are in the location sitting on your traffic they can inject what ever they want and filter for what ever they want.

If your isp allows it. your watching those ads. Whether you like it or not. You can block all you want , and it becomes a game of cat and mouse , eventually the mouse loses. Either they cut off your net , or the net becomes so unusable its not worth it any more.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"


dadkins
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join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

3 edits

1 recommendation

  

Who cares where it comes from? I can nuke it by size!
YOU don't get it!
I can block ANY image from displaying on my screen!
Irrelevant where it comes from!

They may send it, I can deny it from *DISPLAYING* - I see no ad!

What part of this can't you all understand?

Go back and look at some of the images I posted.
See how even the news items displayed are targeted?
I can take them out too!

Ever see anything like this? See pic.
I can turn off various aspects of browsing - even on a site by site basis!

I can target images by *SIZE*! See pic #2
You know, the size of the image is what determines it's removal!
Doesn't matter where it comes from... it's toast!

I can target the images themselves, background images, sounds and music... all kinds of neat things I can turn off on *MY* machine.
Guess what! So can you!

*NO ONE* dictates to me what gets displayed on my screen! Period!
Y'all are lost!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera


rick752
Premium
join:2006-01-27
New York
dadkins, relax a minute because it is YOU who doesn't understand.

You're telling people that are using Adblock Plus about what you can do with Admuncher? Don't know if anyone ever told you, but they are both pretty much the same type of program, dude.

It really doesn't matter where an ad comes from, the ISP would still have to serve it under a unique address that is easily blocked.

Unfortunately, no one has posted an example of nebuad at work ... so I can't see what is going on. If an ad is served through "nebuad" ANYWHERE in the address, my EasyList subscriptions will have that blocked ... if it is run through an ISP serving ads through its customer's sites (which should be against the law), Adblock Plus with my filters has (or will have) that blocked too ... one way or another.

Like myself, even Jeff over at Admuncher probably isn't sure how nebuad will manifest itself until he can see a proven example. Both Admuncher and Adblock Plus are BOTH quite capable of taking care of these ads, so you don't have to tell others here that "only Admuncher" can do everything. Adblock Plus actually has more block-option capabilities than Admuncher has. Admucher's biggest strength is that it works system-wide on all browsers. Most people using Firefox usually don't need the other browsers.

ABP users can just "block & go, too.
--
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
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Da Bronx
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reply to dadkins
said by dadkins:

YOU don't get it!
I can block ANY image from displaying on my screen!
Irrelevant where it comes from! ...
Of course, this is simplistic, and anyone can do the same with little effort.

What you don't seem to realize is the methodology of spammers. Using this technology, every script-generated add you get injected into a dslr web page will have a random, non-repeating number as part of the url.

Your add-block etc, will block each one yes, but you will first see the new add, then have to add it to you block list; how many of these will you block untill your block-list overflows? How long will it take for you to get tired of blocking a new ad every time you open a new dslr page? The DPI and injection technology being discussed will make it impossible to block ads without blocking legit content and functionality.

Bob
--
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43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
I think you are overlooking the capabilities of these ad blockers. They just don't block full URLs or domains. They have wildcard capabilities that can block a URL by matching just a piece of the URL.

Just a VERY VERY small piece of the wildcard matching that takes place:
_adspace
»ad.
»ads.
.adverti
/ads/*
/banners/*.gif$~background
&ClientType=*&AdID=
@@|»*.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/
kanoodle
»pagead2.$~other
.revsci.
.atdmt.com/
/adverti

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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
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·Clearwire Wireless
said by FFH:

I think you are overlooking the capabilities of these ad blockers. They just don't block full URLs or domains. They have wildcard capabilities that can block a URL by matching just a piece of the URL.
I know. but what 'wildcard' are you going to block on if the ad comes with totally different and random pieces? What if the speed test applet here on dslr is modified to first display an ad, then take you to the real speed test? How are you going to block that without blocking the speed test itself? Answer? Impossible!

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.


FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
said by TamaraB:

said by FFH:

I think you are overlooking the capabilities of these ad blockers. They just don't block full URLs or domains. They have wildcard capabilities that can block a URL by matching just a piece of the URL.
I know. but what 'wildcard' are you going to block on if the ad comes with totally different and random pieces? What if the speed test applet here on dslr is modified to first display an ad, then take you to the real speed test? How are you going to block that without blocking the speed test itself? Answer? Impossible!

Bob
Ads from spammers injected into mainline web sites isn't a big problem or is it likely to be. 99.999% of ads are coming from well known companies like Google, doubleclick, etc. that aren't going to go to the lengths that you describe. They stick to well known naming conventions that can be uncovered by the ad blocking products. I just don't see your doomsday scenario ever taking place.

Even companies like nebuad and faireagle will stick to naming conventions that can be uncovered.
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
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join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
Reviews:
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said by FFH:

... aren't going to go to the lengths that you describe.
[...]
... I just don't see your doomsday scenario ever taking place.
I am not prognosticating, I am simply describing what this technology is capable of doing.

None of us, 20 years ago, would have thought that the commercializing of the Internet would have sparked such a horrible email spam problem.

All I am saying is that if a particular technology like the one we are discussing here is allowed to operate on the "public network", then no data can ever again be relied upon to be the work of the author. Run a speed test on dslr, and you are a Verizon customer.

Verizon "CAN" alter the report to read anything they want you to see. If they can identify me (even by an "anonymous" token, and if they can inject/alter code passing through their network, then they control my perception of the Internet world.

This just seems patently evil, and subject to terrible abuse.

Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here.