 DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Just implement upload caps - problem solved Set upload caps at 5-10GB a month and the P2P seeding issue is solved.
The P2P "problem" isn't downloading, it's seeding...it's uploads that are DOCSIS' Achilles heel.
Seeding/serving is ALREADY a TOS violation with virtually every residental cable broadband provider.
Simply enforce an upload cap and when it's violated follow the Cablevision model and throttle their upload speeds to 150kbps or even less.
Then when the customer calls to bitch, tell them what the Lord told John. |
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| said by Dogfather:Seeding/serving is ALREADY a TOS violation with virtually every residental cable broadband provider. Can you cite a residential TOS and or AUP that specifically states that "seeding" is proibited? |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Yes, you can not serve data requests. »www.comcast.net/terms/use.jsp
Comcast's AUP says you can not
said by Comcast :
run programs, equipment, or servers from the Premises that provide network content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises LAN (Local Area Network), also commonly referred to as public services or servers. Examples of prohibited services and servers include, but are not limited to, e-mail, Web hosting, file sharing, and proxy services and servers;
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ajax25
join:2003-12-10
Colonia, NJ | reply to SilverSurfer1
I would say with 80 pages from comcast about P2P and no
mention of it violating TOS that P2P is probably OK.
But then with comcast you never know. |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
2 edits | It's in section 14 of the Comcast AUP; file sharing is EXPRESSLY prohibited.
»www.comcast.net/terms/use.jsp |
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| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather:Comcast's AUP says you can not said by Comcast :
run programs, equipment, or servers from the Premises that provide network content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises LAN (Local Area Network), also commonly referred to as public services or servers. Examples of prohibited services and servers include, but are not limited to, e-mail, Web hosting, file sharing, and proxy services and servers;
Note that "file sharing" is not strictly defined. In fact, it is a fairly broad term. "Seeding" OTOH is not specifically mentioned or defined. If Comcast wants to write an 80 pg TOS, then the least they could have done was specifically define exactly what constitutes "file sharing" and/or "seeding." |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | said by SilverSurfer1:If Comcast wants to write an 80 pg TOS, then the least they could have done was specifically define exactly what constitutes "file sharing" and/or "seeding." It's not an 80 pg TOS. Even in web page view it is 6.
And they did specifically define exactly what constitutes file sharing and/or seeding.
said by Comcast, again :
You can not provide network content or any other services to anyone outside of your premises LAN.../
PERIOD.
It doesn't matter if it's file sharing, seeding, email servers, web servers, FTP servers...ANY activity that provides network content or services to people outside your home is a violation.
Frankly I don't see how Comcast could have made it any more clear. |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | reply to SilverSurfer1
Their TOS basically says this:
You are a slave.
You will consume.
You will be mined for $$$.
You have no rights or privileges.
We can and will tell you what to do.
That's basically it in a nutshell. |
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| reply to Dogfather
The FCC filing is 80 pages and makes no mention of
P2P being against TOS. |
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1 edit | said by hghjhjkhhkkh :
The FCC filing is 80 pages and makes no mention of
P2P being against TOS.
Thank you for pointing that out. That is precisely what I was tactfully trying to point out to carbidyne, but in his blind adherence to the Comcast Kool Aid and zealous defense of throttling/spoofing packets, he missed it. |
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 superdogI Need A DrinkPremium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA | reply to Dogfather
What about this?, I would say that P2P apps. do exactly this, and without throttling/shaping, this rule would apply to every Limewire and Bit Torrent user:
viii. restrict, inhibit, interfere with, or otherwise disrupt or cause a performance degradation, regardless of intent, purpose or knowledge, to the Service or any Comcast (or Comcast supplier) host, server, backbone network, node or service, or otherwise cause a performance degradation to any Comcast (or Comcast supplier) facilities used to deliver the Service;
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 pokesphIt Is Almost FastPremium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1 | reply to Dogfather
I believe that the TOS statement refers to running a file sharing SERVER, not day to day 'normal' usage.. If you notice its under the server heading..
So if I was to 'read it like you are reading it' I'd not be able to ftp my web files to my websever, send emails, or upload content to anywhere (i.e. youtube)
WRONG. |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | reply to SilverSurfer1
said by SilverSurfer1:said by hghjhjkhhkkh :
The FCC filing is 80 pages and makes no mention of
P2P being against TOS.
Thank you for pointing that out. That is precisely what I was tactfully trying to point out to carbidyne, but in his blind adherence to the Comcast Kool Aid and zealous defense of throttling/spoofing packets, he missed it. Oh yeah, I'm a well known fan of Comcast LOL, and posting the Comcast AUP is drinking Kool-Aid. Oh brother, yours is a post worthy of being written in Crayon.
Instead of pissing whining and moaning about Comcast, how about you take 5 minutes and actually READ the AUP that EVERY Comcast customer agrees to when signing up for service.
EVERY Comcast customer acknowledges that use of the service is subject to these terms and conditions including a prohibition against seeding data to people outside their premises LAN.
It is not open for debate. Seeding is and has long been an AUP violation.
I'm saying kill the uploads, you kill the seeding which is ALREADY an AUP violation.
They didn't need to make any changes to their TOS. They only need follow the Cablevision upload cap model and they would have long ago solved their DOCSIS upload capacity issue. |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | reply to pokesph
I'm reading it the only way it can be read.
Comcast couldn't be any more clear...file sharing is a AUP violation.
And no, YOU uploading to YOUR webserver and YOU sending email is not providing SERVICES to others outside your network.
Your WEBSERVER is what provides the services to others. The person you send the email to's MAIL SERVER is was provides the SERVICE to them.
You can not run any device or application that serves data, including seeding. |
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ajax25
join:2003-12-10
Colonia, NJ
1 edit | from comcast FAQ, note it says "uploading files"
Do you block access to peer-to-peer applications like BitTorrent?
No. We do not block access to any Web site or applications, including BitTorrent. Our customers use the Internet for downloading and uploading files, watching movies and videos, streaming music, sharing digital photos, accessing numerous peer-to-peer sites, VOIP applications like Vonage, and thousands of other applications online. |
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| reply to superdog
What Comcast has in their Accceptable Use Policy
»www6.comcast.net/terms/use/
(iii) temporarily delaying peer-to-peer sessions (or sessions using other applications or protocols) during periods of high network congestion, (iv) limiting the number of peer-to-peer sessions during periods of high network congestion, So yes, they have stated what they WILL do when they want to.
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | reply to ajax25
said by ajax25:from comcast FAQ, note it says "uploading files" Do you block access to peer-to-peer applications like BitTorrent? No. We do not block access to any Web site or applications, including BitTorrent. Our customers use the Internet for downloading and uploading files, watching movies and videos, streaming music, sharing digital photos, accessing numerous peer-to-peer sites, VOIP applications like Vonage, and thousands of other applications online. It's not an AUP violation to DOWNLOAD using P2P. It's only a violation to UPLOAD using P2P and it's that violation that is spelled out clearly in their AUP.
And they thus far haven't blocked access. They're very clever in their working. BT still works, they're just traffic shaping it to a very slow crawl. |
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ajax25
join:2003-12-10
Colonia, NJ | reply to fAcEtIOUs
said by fAcEtIOUs:What Comcast has in their Accceptable Use Policy » www6.comcast.net/terms/use/(iii) temporarily delaying peer-to-peer sessions (or sessions using other applications or protocols) during periods of high network congestion, (iv) limiting the number of peer-to-peer sessions during periods of high network congestion, So yes, they have stated what they WILL do when they want to. After first lying about it and then being forced to admit they were doing it. |
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1 edit | reply to hghjhjkhhkkh
said by hghjhjkhhkkh :
The FCC filing is 80 pages and makes no mention of
P2P being against TOS.
See their AUP:
»www6.comcast.net/terms/use/
(iii) temporarily delaying peer-to-peer sessions (or sessions using other applications or protocols) during periods of high network congestion, (iv) limiting the number of peer-to-peer sessions during periods of high network congestion, You might want to read that whole policy at this link. Basically they have given themselves the right to do anything they damn well please in order to keep THEIR network running as they see fit.
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My BLOG
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| reply to Dogfather
said by Dogfather:Your WEBSERVER is what provides the services to others. Perhaps you need to understand what is meant by "services" before you assert the following...
You can not run any device or application that serves data, including seeding. Because seeding while downloading, does not classify as a "service". And equating seeding to providing a service is misusing and misinterpreting what the word service means. |
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