MyDogHsFleas
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join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
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| reply to nasadude
Re: [POLL] Immunity or not; what say you?
said by nasadude  :the legislative process in the U.S. is broken, that's why we're even discussing this issue. If the process was working there is no way the telcos would get immunity. If by "broken" you mean "not doing what you think they should do" I guess you're right.
Only the absolute dictatorship of nasadude would convince you that it's not "broken", I fear. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to Ebolla
said by Ebolla :Is it really needed to refer to this in EVERY post you make? You accuse everyone who opposes your view as "self-styled freedom fighters", why? Because they're the ones who claim to support the Constitution, liberty and freedom, unlike those who disagree with them? Quoting the founders as if to set a baseline they adhere to, unlike those who disagree with them?
It seems like they would cherish the appellation if they are proud of their actions, and if they really are distinguished from those who don't share their mania.
But, I constantly get the impression they're not proud.
Mark |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude :the legislative process in the U.S. is broken, that's why we're even discussing this issue. If the process was working there is no way the telcos would get immunity. That's circular isn't it? Anyone could support the most ridiculous and illegitimate actions this way just because their view didn't win the day. And, it would be proven legitimate because they didn't win the day? If they won the day, they wouldn't have taken the ridiculous action, therefore the system is broken and the ridiculous action proves it?
Mark |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
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| quote:
That's circular isn't it? Anyone could support the most ridiculous and illegitimate actions this way just because their view didn't win the day. And, it would be proven legitimate because they didn't win the day? If they won the day, they wouldn't have taken the ridiculous action, therefore the system is broken and the ridiculous action proves it?
Say what? |
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firephoto
KDE
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join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :Sorry Charlie!! But 33 to 35% are all for immunity. Last I checked the part of the pie with 70%+ was the bigger piece. Majority rules in the land of the free when votes aren't bought. Those patriotic dems that voted for immunity have family members in the telco industry so they don't have to be bought like some on the other side. |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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| said by firephoto :said by TKJunkMail :Sorry Charlie!! But 33 to 35% are all for immunity. Last I checked the part of the pie with 70%+ was the bigger piece. Majority rules in the land of the free when votes aren't bought. Those patriotic dems that voted for immunity have family members in the telco industry so they don't have to be bought like some on the other side. You CONVENIENTLY left out the part that I replied to:
said by morbo:
you're right. there would only be 1 vote in the YES category if this was truly representative of the USA.
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | You win. There would be three. |
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firephoto
KDE
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join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :You CONVENIENTLY left out the part that I replied to: said by morbo:
you're right. there would only be 1 vote in the YES category if this was truly representative of the USA. Right because it has nothing to do with only 35% wanting immunity. Majority rules.
Nice try at the spin.
"Look no spying here, nothing to see, move along.. but PLEASE DON'T LET THEM SUE US!" |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
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PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to amigo_boy
quote:
I'd go so far as saying that publishing editorials referring readers to biased activist organizations, to send representatives prepared statements goes one more step toward describing who's unbalanced.
Yeah, well I'd troll technology forums with disastrously flawed reason in defense of the crushing of privacy and the wholesale whoring out of the government to the interests of multinational corporations, but people appear to have that wrapped up.... |
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MyDogHsFleas
Premium
join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Karl Bode : quote:
I'd go so far as saying that publishing editorials referring readers to biased activist organizations, to send representatives prepared statements goes one more step toward describing who's unbalanced.
Yeah, well I'd troll technology forums with disastrously flawed reason in defense of the crushing of privacy and the wholesale whoring out of the government to the interests of multinational corporations, but people appear to have that wrapped up.... Oh man! Bitter much?
I guess my attempts to point out where you are reporting biased stories are falling on deaf ears. I guess I'll not bother. Looks like this site is not a place to go for actual news. Well, it's still great for technical stuff... |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| ...Bitter? Karl's politely trying to explain his stance in a calm and logical manner, and granted, there's some sarcasm, but get over yourself.
All of you people who have an ax to grind must have some very dull blades...
Reporting biased stories... you could indeed say that the story is extremely biased towards reality. If you'd prefer bias towards complete and utter fantasy, with thick layers of greased idiocy, you're free to indulge in such misinformation  |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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3 edits | reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode :You win. There would be three. His point was that this site's denizens statistically reflects US opinion. My point was that it doesn't. I proved my point. This site is nowhere near the US statistical norm on any subject.
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode : Yeah, well I'd troll technology forums with disastrously flawed reason in defense of the crushing of privacy and the wholesale whoring out of the government to the interests of multinational corporations, but people appear to have that wrapped up.... Karl, I appreciate your passion. It's definitely better than the vast majority of Americans who are content with their DVDs and latest video games.
Keep up the good work.
Mark |
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MyDogHsFleas
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join:2007-08-15
Austin, TX
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| reply to amungus
said by amungus :...Bitter? Karl's politely trying to explain his stance in a calm and logical manner, and granted, there's some sarcasm, but get over yourself. All of you people who have an ax to grind must have some very dull blades... Oh come on. Did I ever use anything like the words "disastrously flawed", "whoring out", "crushing"... ??? And he's calm and logical, and I have an axe to grind?
Reporting biased stories... you could indeed say that the story is extremely biased towards reality. If you'd prefer bias towards complete and utter fantasy, with thick layers of greased idiocy, you're free to indulge in such misinformation
That is why I concluded this site is not the place to go for non-biased reporting, and that my attempts to point out to Karl where he could be a reporter and not a water-carrier for one side are not useful.
Hey, I am not the bitter one. I've figured out what's happening here, and I'm OK with it. It's not my site, after all, I don't get to say how it works. Karl's apparently the bitter one that people like me take advantage of the "comments" feature and have differing opinions. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to amigo_boy
Mark,
Check and balance systems are only as strong as the integrity of the people in control of the system. Why don't you look at all the chess moves that Bush played when he took office. Why don't you look at all the people who are providing the checks and balances, see who they are as people, how they got there, and where their loyalty is.
Next, come back and tell us why the cleaning lady was going to be a Supreme Court Justice.
VZ is a democracy, right? However, the idiot in charge was stacking the deck to give him all he wanted.. only, he was point blank about what he was doing. Bush is taking efforts to blow smoke up his followers butt's telling them to wave the American Flag, putting those cute patriotic names on things like "homeland" security, "Patriot" act, the "Protect America" act.. meanwhile, he's leading people to follow him down a dangerous path, misleading people at every turn. (Sound liek the anti-christ yet?)
The check and balance system is all but present at this time in this country. Too many people in government are benefiting from the trough of the public which is one of the signs of the fall of a society.
Just because they "didn't find cause" for impeachment or even a non-binding resolution doesn't mean a thing. You think that the pubs are going to act on their own leader they hold so dearly? You think that the Democrats who just took office were going to make waves? Both parties are fractured at the moment and what you witnessed in the making of political maneuvering in order to save face for themselves at the expense of not only the American people, but the American legal system.
Kind of a funny example, but if you had ever saw the movie Legally Blond 2, there was one very good saying in there.. While Congresswoman Rudd was making moves because of a political supporter, she killed her own sponsored bill. The congresswoman said "what good am I if I am not in office".. the reply was "what good are you doing if you're not being honest and standing up for what YOU believe in"..?
The people in congress do what ever it takes to stay in congress. They feel they need to stay in congress to get their job done.. but all they do is spend time staying in congress while never actually doing their job.
This entire puppet show they put on over impeachment was a joke. The man is guilty as sin and yet people are protecting him.. and at this point, it's for the good of the country. (Think President Ford)
I think you're seeing life with Rose Colored glasses there. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
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join:2005-05-20
| reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy :said by Karl Bode : Again I think you confuse a broken and corrupt system of Justice with vindication and/or moral authority. Get back to us in a decade or so once the bright lamp of history has a chance to burn off the rhetoric of fear. They've already demonstrated the ends justify the means. At first we went to war in Afganistan because that's where the Taliban was holding out.
Next, we wake up in Iraq becuase "Sadaam is a threat to America"..
Next, he has weapons of mass destruction.
Next, he's harboring the Taliban.
Next, he's busted and knowingly ignored information that should have changed his mind..
Finally, we went to Iraq to be seen as liberators and rebuild a democracy.
I can certainly see how the self-styled freedom fighters have already demonstrated that they see the ends justifying the means.
By the way.. what exactly is the "self-styled freedom fighter?" Would that be the person that goes against the current administrations popular belief, not going along with what the majority of popular believe?
In that case, when the democrats take over office this election season, would that turn the tables and make the republicans the new self-styled freedom fighters?
This line of thinking is annoying, to say the least. If someone is on the other side, let's throw some nasty label on them. Just like the Republicans have the "conservative movement" while the gays have "an agenda" and somehow "agenda" is supposed to be 1) different, 2) bad? Just like when former President Clinton speaks, the Republicans will say "why doesn't he just go away, he's not even in office any more" yet those very Republicans will spend all day long listening to people like Newt Gingrich or when not listening to him, they're practically trying to contact Regan from beyond the grave.
Please.. spare us all the negative "other side" name throwing. It's nothing but political BS. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
1 edit | reply to MyDogHsFleas
I hate to embarrass you,.. actually I don't, but even people on your own side who used to have Bush sitting centered on their shoulders (figure that one out) even agree that Bush has been dis-honoring the office.
Laws are CLEARLY broken.. scholars that know FAR more than you disagree with you and state the system is clearly not working at this time and change is needed.
You are entitled to your opinion all you want.. and we are entitled to point out how wrong you are.
Popular belief doesn't make something "right"... the law does. I'll follow people that spend their entire life devoted to the study of our foundation over someone like you any day.
The sad thing is that it doesn't take long to figure out all the things that this administration has done in violation of the law. The only time, however, you will see what was wrong is when ... well, you won't. Never mind.
While others are self what-ever freedom fighters, I guess that makes your type an apologist or excuse machine? |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :I think you're seeing life with Rose Colored glasses there. Could be. But, the solution to fix all the corruption which you say exists is to get a lot of people to agree with you, change government, the laws, the Constitution. Even call a convention to rewrite the Constitution. Making telcos the whipping boy is just more of the same thing you complain about.
Of course, the other alternative is that the system isn't as broken as you suggest. It could just be that those who don't get what they want, when they want, blame it on "broken government" instead of just the reality of a system that's always been imperfect, and always will be. In other words, sour grapes.
The notion of immunity isn't far fetched. 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(a)(ii)(B) grants immunity simply if the Attorney General tells the requestee that no warrant is required.
Mark |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| It's not about "agreeing".. it's about applying the law correctly.
If I get a parking ticket and it says "6:05pm", parking is only enforced until 6pm, and a judge tells me to pay the fine, I don't have to agree with him. I go above his head because there is clear mis-application of the law on his part. I don't care if he agrees or even if everyone in the city told me I was wrong. In the end, I will come out the winner because the law is on my side.
Bush, however, spent time stacking those offices, agencies, and courts with people that would pay him favors and be friendly to his choices - many who have ignored the law themselves doing so.
The problem is that the legal system is under attack by all politicians. You DO realize the courts are supposed to remain neutral from party affiliation, right? There is a reason.. and you are demonstrating it today.
When congress fails to do their job, one check is the judicial system - however, that system has been stacked and is corrupt at this time.
And, to answer your question, and unless you are totally blind, the majority of the nation disagrees with your views right now. Democrats are energized 2 to 1 over the republicans at this point. The people are speaking loud and clear.
Bush made a promise that he would unite this country. I have to say, he didn't lie.. we just assumed he'd unite the country as policy in his administration.. rather, he pissed the nation (world) off so much that the county HAS united.. and they all agree.. the liar needs to go.. and so do all of his friends.
Take a really good look at his past.. the people he appointed and where they come from.. you may be enlightened.
While you are right in getting many people to change the people in the system - that's happening.. what you are 10000% wrong on is that saying things are "right" as long as people agree.. people have been siding with Bush for years, while doing so, they overlooked their true duty.. to uphold the Constitution of the United States. |
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amigo_boy
join:2005-07-22
Tempe, AZ
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| said by fiberguy :It's not about "agreeing" ... Whoa. You're the one who said Bush isn't doing the right thing. Congress isn't, etc. Here's what you do: Get a lot of people who agree with you and change government. Elect new people. Change the campaign finance laws. Amend the Constitution. Call a Convention.
Making the telcos a whipping boy (in *civil* court) when all they did was follow the President's directive is as much a charade of justice as you accuse Bush & Co.
Mark |
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