Reviews:
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to Karl Bode
Re: [POLL] Immunity or not; what say you? said by Karl Bode:Yeah, people who think checks and balances are being trampled sure are FUSSY. The legislative process is a check and balance. It didn't find cause for impeachment. Not even censure. Not even a non-binding resolution! Not even hearings and possible indictments against telco officers (unlike Big Tobacco, et. al). And, it resulted in amended surveillance laws.
Do you think *that* check and balance is being "trampled?"
If opponents to immunity are so balanced and calm about how they're doing the right thing, why refer people to an activist web site to contact their representatives using a pre-filled reply? (instead of merely to the contact information?).
I maintain that I'd expect self-styled freedom fighters to be the ones to do whatever they can to alter the outcome of a poll.
Mark |
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| quote:
The legislative process is a check and balance. It didn't find cause for impeachment. Not even censure. Not even a non-binding resolution! Not even hearings and possible indictments against telco officers (unlike Big Tobacco, et. al). And, it resulted in amended surveillance laws.
Again I think you confuse a broken and corrupt system of Justice with vindication and/or moral authority. Get back to us in a decade or so once the bright lamp of history has a chance to burn off the rhetoric of fear. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| said by Karl Bode: Again I think you confuse a broken and corrupt system of Justice with vindication and/or moral authority. Get back to us in a decade or so once the bright lamp of history has a chance to burn off the rhetoric of fear. This is precisely why telcos should be protected. If you believe the system is broken, your natural Constitutional recourse is to impeach the President, replace representatives, change laws, amend the Constitution, etc. Run for office yourself.
You're just not happy that the system didn't work the way you want it to. And thus, the telcos become the whipping boy of last resort.
That might be a legal, valid political recourse. But, it's hardly the high road that we expect from those professing to be saving us from things destroying the constitutional system.
That's why I again maintain that it wouldn't surprise me to see self-styled freedom fighters stacking a poll. They've already demonstrated the ends justify the means.
It's not something I could be proud of. That's 90% of why I support immunity. Telcos should be protected from this mindset.
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
You don't have to support impeachment against Bush to oppose immunity. Not sure why you are linking the two. Bush is out in less than a year, so impeachment is a waste of time.
Why are you so opposed to letting a jury decide if the telcos were in the right or the wrong? |
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Host:
Road Runner
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3 edits | reply to amigo_boy
quote:
You're just not happy that the system didn't work the way you want it to. And thus, the telcos become the whipping boy of last resort.
Nonsense and prattle. The only concern here by the powers that be is the protection of telecom revenue, a motivation that comes solely from vast and powerful lobbying efforts. The entire terrorism discussion and the multiple layers of rhetoric piled on top is little more than a giant, stinking red herring in a lovely dress.
The fact you see demons in those trying to re-instill accountability in government isn't really my problem.
But suggesting Franklin would have approved of AT&T shoveling the entire data streams of multiple carriers directly to the government without functional judicial oversight...and with full legal immunity from prosecution for privacy invasion strikes me as an epic stretch and a re-write of both history and morality...
The suggestion that because Bush wasn't impeached and nobody has been arrested yet means this is all perfectly justified and moral is just kind of cute.... |
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 Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:self-styled freedom fighters Is it really needed to refer to this in EVERY post you make? You accuse everyone who opposes your view as "self-styled freedom fighters", why? I am pretty sure that pointless and repetitive behavior is a sign of OCD or insanity. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:The suggestion that because Bush wasn't impeached and nobody has been arrested yet means this is all perfectly justified and moral is just kind of cute.... It means the Constitutional system didn't find the matters in question to rise to the level of crime that self-styled freedom fighters insist it did. Picking and choosing which parts of the Constitution you like? Which due process? Which checks and balances?
said by Karl Bode:But suggesting Franklin .... See »Re: Benny said it all
said by Karl Bode:The fact you see demons.... I don't think I'm seeing demons by simply pointing out how the system *worked*. It seems like those who insist it didn't work, and who ignore all the due process (and checks and balances) to this point, just because it wasn't in their favor, and who now run to *civil court* as the institution of choice are the ones who've gone over the edge.
I'd go so far as saying that publishing editorials referring readers to biased activist organizations, to send representatives prepared statements goes one more step toward describing who's unbalanced. 
Mark |
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| reply to amigo_boy
the legislative process in the U.S. is broken, that's why we're even discussing this issue. If the process was working there is no way the telcos would get immunity. |
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Reviews:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| said by nasadude:the legislative process in the U.S. is broken, that's why we're even discussing this issue. If the process was working there is no way the telcos would get immunity. If by "broken" you mean "not doing what you think they should do" I guess you're right.
Only the absolute dictatorship of nasadude would convince you that it's not "broken", I fear. |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to Ebolla
said by Ebolla:Is it really needed to refer to this in EVERY post you make? You accuse everyone who opposes your view as "self-styled freedom fighters", why? Because they're the ones who claim to support the Constitution, liberty and freedom, unlike those who disagree with them? Quoting the founders as if to set a baseline they adhere to, unlike those who disagree with them?
It seems like they would cherish the appellation if they are proud of their actions, and if they really are distinguished from those who don't share their mania.
But, I constantly get the impression they're not proud.
Mark |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude:the legislative process in the U.S. is broken, that's why we're even discussing this issue. If the process was working there is no way the telcos would get immunity. That's circular isn't it? Anyone could support the most ridiculous and illegitimate actions this way just because their view didn't win the day. And, it would be proven legitimate because they didn't win the day? If they won the day, they wouldn't have taken the ridiculous action, therefore the system is broken and the ridiculous action proves it?
Mark |
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Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
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That's circular isn't it? Anyone could support the most ridiculous and illegitimate actions this way just because their view didn't win the day. And, it would be proven legitimate because they didn't win the day? If they won the day, they wouldn't have taken the ridiculous action, therefore the system is broken and the ridiculous action proves it?
Say what? |
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Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| reply to amigo_boy
quote:
I'd go so far as saying that publishing editorials referring readers to biased activist organizations, to send representatives prepared statements goes one more step toward describing who's unbalanced.
Yeah, well I'd troll technology forums with disastrously flawed reason in defense of the crushing of privacy and the wholesale whoring out of the government to the interests of multinational corporations, but people appear to have that wrapped up.... |
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Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Karl Bode: quote:
I'd go so far as saying that publishing editorials referring readers to biased activist organizations, to send representatives prepared statements goes one more step toward describing who's unbalanced.
Yeah, well I'd troll technology forums with disastrously flawed reason in defense of the crushing of privacy and the wholesale whoring out of the government to the interests of multinational corporations, but people appear to have that wrapped up.... Oh man! Bitter much?
I guess my attempts to point out where you are reporting biased stories are falling on deaf ears. I guess I'll not bother. Looks like this site is not a place to go for actual news. Well, it's still great for technical stuff... |
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amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| ...Bitter? Karl's politely trying to explain his stance in a calm and logical manner, and granted, there's some sarcasm, but get over yourself.
All of you people who have an ax to grind must have some very dull blades...
Reporting biased stories... you could indeed say that the story is extremely biased towards reality. If you'd prefer bias towards complete and utter fantasy, with thick layers of greased idiocy, you're free to indulge in such misinformation |
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Reviews:
·magicjack.com
| reply to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode: Yeah, well I'd troll technology forums with disastrously flawed reason in defense of the crushing of privacy and the wholesale whoring out of the government to the interests of multinational corporations, but people appear to have that wrapped up.... Karl, I appreciate your passion. It's definitely better than the vast majority of Americans who are content with their DVDs and latest video games.
Keep up the good work.
Mark |
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Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to amungus
said by amungus:...Bitter? Karl's politely trying to explain his stance in a calm and logical manner, and granted, there's some sarcasm, but get over yourself. All of you people who have an ax to grind must have some very dull blades... Oh come on. Did I ever use anything like the words "disastrously flawed", "whoring out", "crushing"... ??? And he's calm and logical, and I have an axe to grind?
Reporting biased stories... you could indeed say that the story is extremely biased towards reality. If you'd prefer bias towards complete and utter fantasy, with thick layers of greased idiocy, you're free to indulge in such misinformation
That is why I concluded this site is not the place to go for non-biased reporting, and that my attempts to point out to Karl where he could be a reporter and not a water-carrier for one side are not useful.
Hey, I am not the bitter one. I've figured out what's happening here, and I'm OK with it. It's not my site, after all, I don't get to say how it works. Karl's apparently the bitter one that people like me take advantage of the "comments" feature and have differing opinions. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to amigo_boy
Mark,
Check and balance systems are only as strong as the integrity of the people in control of the system. Why don't you look at all the chess moves that Bush played when he took office. Why don't you look at all the people who are providing the checks and balances, see who they are as people, how they got there, and where their loyalty is.
Next, come back and tell us why the cleaning lady was going to be a Supreme Court Justice.
VZ is a democracy, right? However, the idiot in charge was stacking the deck to give him all he wanted.. only, he was point blank about what he was doing. Bush is taking efforts to blow smoke up his followers butt's telling them to wave the American Flag, putting those cute patriotic names on things like "homeland" security, "Patriot" act, the "Protect America" act.. meanwhile, he's leading people to follow him down a dangerous path, misleading people at every turn. (Sound liek the anti-christ yet?)
The check and balance system is all but present at this time in this country. Too many people in government are benefiting from the trough of the public which is one of the signs of the fall of a society.
Just because they "didn't find cause" for impeachment or even a non-binding resolution doesn't mean a thing. You think that the pubs are going to act on their own leader they hold so dearly? You think that the Democrats who just took office were going to make waves? Both parties are fractured at the moment and what you witnessed in the making of political maneuvering in order to save face for themselves at the expense of not only the American people, but the American legal system.
Kind of a funny example, but if you had ever saw the movie Legally Blond 2, there was one very good saying in there.. While Congresswoman Rudd was making moves because of a political supporter, she killed her own sponsored bill. The congresswoman said "what good am I if I am not in office".. the reply was "what good are you doing if you're not being honest and standing up for what YOU believe in"..?
The people in congress do what ever it takes to stay in congress. They feel they need to stay in congress to get their job done.. but all they do is spend time staying in congress while never actually doing their job.
This entire puppet show they put on over impeachment was a joke. The man is guilty as sin and yet people are protecting him.. and at this point, it's for the good of the country. (Think President Ford)
I think you're seeing life with Rose Colored glasses there. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | reply to amigo_boy
said by amigo_boy:said by Karl Bode: Again I think you confuse a broken and corrupt system of Justice with vindication and/or moral authority. Get back to us in a decade or so once the bright lamp of history has a chance to burn off the rhetoric of fear. They've already demonstrated the ends justify the means. At first we went to war in Afganistan because that's where the Taliban was holding out.
Next, we wake up in Iraq becuase "Sadaam is a threat to America"..
Next, he has weapons of mass destruction.
Next, he's harboring the Taliban.
Next, he's busted and knowingly ignored information that should have changed his mind..
Finally, we went to Iraq to be seen as liberators and rebuild a democracy.
I can certainly see how the self-styled freedom fighters have already demonstrated that they see the ends justifying the means.
By the way.. what exactly is the "self-styled freedom fighter?" Would that be the person that goes against the current administrations popular belief, not going along with what the majority of popular believe?
In that case, when the democrats take over office this election season, would that turn the tables and make the republicans the new self-styled freedom fighters?
This line of thinking is annoying, to say the least. If someone is on the other side, let's throw some nasty label on them. Just like the Republicans have the "conservative movement" while the gays have "an agenda" and somehow "agenda" is supposed to be 1) different, 2) bad? Just like when former President Clinton speaks, the Republicans will say "why doesn't he just go away, he's not even in office any more" yet those very Republicans will spend all day long listening to people like Newt Gingrich or when not listening to him, they're practically trying to contact Regan from beyond the grave.
Please.. spare us all the negative "other side" name throwing. It's nothing but political BS. |
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fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | reply to MyDogHsFleas
I hate to embarrass you,.. actually I don't, but even people on your own side who used to have Bush sitting centered on their shoulders (figure that one out) even agree that Bush has been dis-honoring the office.
Laws are CLEARLY broken.. scholars that know FAR more than you disagree with you and state the system is clearly not working at this time and change is needed.
You are entitled to your opinion all you want.. and we are entitled to point out how wrong you are.
Popular belief doesn't make something "right"... the law does. I'll follow people that spend their entire life devoted to the study of our foundation over someone like you any day.
The sad thing is that it doesn't take long to figure out all the things that this administration has done in violation of the law. The only time, however, you will see what was wrong is when ... well, you won't. Never mind.
While others are self what-ever freedom fighters, I guess that makes your type an apologist or excuse machine? |
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