Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20031033 en Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:56:27 EDT Sat, 04 Jul 2009 05:56:27 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20043549 digitalfreak : Wow, look, another AT&T shill. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20043549 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:34:14 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20043539 digitalfreak : You're definitely in the minority.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20043539 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:32:15 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20039143 KrK : Nice attempts at dodging. If TVC fails to deploy their network in a timely and cost-efficient manner because AT&T breaks regulations or the laws, then that's AT&T's fault, and they should be righteously smacked down for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20039143 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:27:16 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20035705 pnh102 :
said by KrK See Profile :

said by pnh102 See Profile :
I am merely suggesting TVC take the seemingly radical approach and run its own infrastructure instead.
Then here's a seemingly radical approach: TVC should simply cut at&t's lines and put theirs in it's place to screw at&t over. OH wait, that's probably illegal...
So you're trying to say that my suggestion of TVC running their own infrastructure is illegal?
said by KrK See Profile :

So it's legal for at&t to screw over TVC, but not vice versa... or perhaps, it's NOT, which is why the State is now stepping in.... Not like TVC is trying to screw at&t. They merely want to exist, and get the access they are entitled to have.
If TVC goes under because it did not find some way to bring service to its customers, then it is their fault, not AT&T's.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20035705 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:03:44 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034853 KrK :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

There's nothing to understand. AT&T doesn't want to help out its competitors, so it will do whatever it can to screw TVC over.

I am merely suggesting TVC take the seemingly radical approach and run its own infrastructure instead.
So all's fair in war, eh? Then here's a seemingly radical approach: TVC should simply cut at&t's lines and put theirs in it's place to screw at&t over. OH wait, that's probably illegal... So it's legal for at&t to screw over TVC, but not vice versa... or perhaps, it's NOT, which is why the State is now stepping in.... Not like TVC is trying to screw at&t. They merely want to exist, and get the access they are entitled to have.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034853 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:14:08 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034834 KrK :
said by Matt See Profile :

Not sure which part of this you're not understanding.
The part which doesn't line up with at&t's agenda, apparently!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034834 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:09:58 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034828 KrK :
said by wolverine_99 See Profile :

Your comment doesn't apply to AT&T cutting costs by using the asset of another company since it owns rights to the pole.
at&t sharing the pole with the utilities that put it in. Therefore, they should also have to share it with other utilities, even if they ARE competitors. If they won't share it, then they shouldn't be allowed to use it either.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034828 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:08:21 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034825 KrK : So, they are building out their own network, on utility easements they are paying for, but that makes them "Losers".

It reminds me of people saying "CLEC's are sponging leeches! They should build their own networks!" and then when they DO build their own networks, they still get slammed.

Face it, Telco shills. You guys just defend the companies like AT&T for some unknown reason. They are wrong to do what they do, and people who defend and support them are as much to blame as they are.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20034825 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:06:02 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031568 jhboricua :
said by Matt See Profile :

Not sure which part of this you're not understanding.
The problem is you're expecting logic from a known telco shill.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031568 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:46:10 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031416 fiberguy : Maybe, then, power should shun AT&T and do the same thing to them, right?

That's a good idea.. any new attachment AT&T wants to do that requires them attaching an electric pole, the power company should sit on it for a year. See how fast AT&T cries foul.

While I agree with you on principle.. go underground.. I strongly disagree with you in reality.

AT&T has a responsibility to share the poles. If this were Comcast doing it, you'd be up in arms. (And yes, Comcast does own some poles)

This move on AT&T's part is a calculated move to force a competitor to spend themselves out of their project potentially derailing the efforts all together.

I seriously can't believe you'd support AT&T on this one and stand for it. AT&T is, as usual, snubbing their nose at this and pushing the limits.

In a case like this, I'd condemn those poles, take them with eminent domain punishing at&t for their failure to respond properly.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031416 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:27:11 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031284 nasadude :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

If AT&T and the local power company come to a mutual agreement for the former to use the latter's utility poles then there's no problem with that.

If AT&T owns the poles, then there is also nothing stopping TVC from coming to a similar agreement, and if it can't, it will have to pursue alternatives.
If there is no legally binding rule, law or regulation mandating that ATT share their poles - WHY WOULD THEY DO IT? There is a compelling financial reason for ATT NOT to share - keeping out competition. If this is the case, tough sh!t, TVC is screwed.

If there is a reg or law (most likely as a condition of the rights of way use) that mandates ATT must share poles (at a reasonable, nondiscriminatory rates, etc.), then ATT is doing their best to take as long and make it as difficult as possible to do so, for the same reason as above: to discourage or prevent competition.

If the second is the case, ATT should be fined hugely and swiftly to make them comply with their agreement, otherwise the rule or law is useless (as it appears to be if there is one).

the reason the 1996 telecom act did zero for competition is the telcos just ignored the law and ate the fines when they got caught (the fines were apparently not huge enough).

Although I consider ATT evil, they are just acting like any other company should when there is no regulation - do whatever possible to prevent and/or eliminate competition to enable as high a price for their product as possible - it's the corporate way and they are legally bound to make money for their shareholders.

BUT, that's why regulation is needed in some cases: some companies don't care about their customers and if they are in a low competition or no competition environment, THEY DON'T HAVE TO. They also don't have to care about the common good or what is good for the country.

Obviously, some people on this forum want to live in the kind of world where corporations do whatever they want - rape the environment for private gain, prosper at the expense of the well being of customers and the country, etc.

That's all fine and good, but that's not the kind of country I want to live in.

and in response to the certain comeback (don't live here), I have certainly thought about that lately.

and when things change back eventually (and they will), I say the same to you - if you don't like it, don't live here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031284 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:07:46 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031191 pnh102 :
said by Matt See Profile :

Not sure which part of this you're not understanding.
There's nothing to understand. AT&T doesn't want to help out its competitors, so it will do whatever it can to screw TVC over.

I am merely suggesting TVC take the seemingly radical approach and run its own infrastructure instead.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031191 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:56:33 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031152 Matt :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by SRFireside See Profile :

Why is it ATT's problem? Because the poles are shared. That's the agreement.
Agreement or not, Thames Valley accomplishes nothing by whining about how unfair AT&T allegedly is. They need to be a "do-er" and not a complainer.

They need to get a franchise agreement and run their own wires.
Which is what they are trying to do, but poles require minimum clearances. AT&T is not cooperating and purposefully delaying the work required for TVC to string their wire. However, when AT&T needs to move wires around for minimum clearances, there isn't a problem getting THEIR work done, even if the order was put in AFTER TVC. This is why they now have 70-days to comply with the order.

Not sure which part of this you're not understanding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031152 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:50:57 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031054 pnh102 :
said by SRFireside See Profile :

Why is it ATT's problem? Because the poles are shared. That's the agreement.
Agreement or not, Thames Valley accomplishes nothing by whining about how unfair AT&T allegedly is. They need to be a "do-er" and not a complainer.

They need to get a franchise agreement and run their own wires.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031054 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:37:04 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031033 pnh102 : You will never see me complaining about any next-generation information solution provider ripping up my yard to offer me better service.

I'd sell space in my backyard for a cell tower if I could.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031033 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:35:22 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031025 patcat88 :
said by wolverine_99 See Profile :

Yes, let's go to that extreme because that's exactly the answer. It's a new provider w/new service. Incur the cost and bury your lines. Do I feel all line should be buried? Yes, but it won't happen since it costs too much money for the companies at stake. I'm fortunate to live in an area where we have buried lines for phone, cable, etc. Looks nice too.
Then who will force the baby bell to bury their lines? huh?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031025 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:34:37 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031011 patcat88 : Well, if they don't want their utilities to be upgraded, you can just shut it off and leave them in the dark. Then they won't be able to charge their cellphones or make phone calls all day trying to defeat you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20031011 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:33:06 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20030874 SRFireside : Why is it ATT's problem? Because the poles are shared. That's the agreement.

//edited for spelling. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20030874 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:15:04 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20030342 TheGhost :
said by wolverine_99 See Profile :

Yes, let's go to that extreme because that's exactly the answer. It's a new provider w/new service. Incur the cost and bury your lines.
The only unfair piece is that T and VZ and all the other Bell companies have built up a large barrier to entry using monopoly power and profits. It was easy to build out the poles and infrastructure when paying for it was basically cost plus. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20030342 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 12:56:37 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029743 wolverine_99 : Yes, let's go to that extreme because that's exactly the answer. It's a new provider w/new service. Incur the cost and bury your lines. Do I feel all line should be buried? Yes, but it won't happen since it costs too much money for the companies at stake. I'm fortunate to live in an area where we have buried lines for phone, cable, etc. Looks nice too.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029743 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:14:10 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029665 ib50MbSoon : Excellent! Lets have all telecom competitors put in their own poles. Our streets and highways would look real nice then.
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Comcast has spoiled me rotten!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029665 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:03:58 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029572 wolverine_99 :
said by ib50MbSoon See Profile :

Fine but they should force T to bury their cable in all service areas. T shouldn't be allowed to cut costs by using power company poles.
Alternative providers in Connecticut have been complaining for years that they're having a hard time completing projects because AT&T is slow or non-responsive to requests to share poles jointly owned by AT&T and regional utilities.
The poles are jointly owned by AT&T. Your comment doesn't apply to AT&T cutting costs by using the asset of another company since it owns rights to the pole. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029572 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:49:22 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029532 pnh102 :
said by ib50MbSoon See Profile :

T shouldn't be allowed to cut costs by using power company poles.
If AT&T and the local power company come to a mutual agreement for the former to use the latter's utility poles then there's no problem with that.

If AT&T owns the poles, then there is also nothing stopping TVC from coming to a similar agreement, and if it can't, it will have to pursue alternatives.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029532 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:43:10 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029514 pnh102 :
said by Matt See Profile :

You have any idea how much more expensive it is to bury a line rather than simply tacking it to a pole?
Yes.

So why is that AT&T's problem?
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029514 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:39:43 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029505 ib50MbSoon :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

Perhaps instead of waiting for a competitor to help them out, maybe a better course of action would have been to get franchise rights to dig into the ground and run underground cable instead.

Oh wait, it is easier to blame your competitor instead.


Fine but they should force T to bury their cable in all service areas. T shouldn't be allowed to cut costs by using power company poles.
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Comcast has spoiled me rotten!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029505 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:38:59 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029504 pnh102 :
said by moonpuppy See Profile :

They could be like the NIMBYs in MD.
Such people deserve to never have access to any new technology ever.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029504 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:38:57 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029432 Matt :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

Perhaps instead of waiting for a competitor to help them out, maybe a better course of action would have been to get franchise rights to dig into the ground and run underground cable instead.

Oh wait, it is easier to blame your competitor instead.
You have any idea how much more expensive it is to bury a line rather than simply tacking it to a pole? You think AT&T doesn't know this?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029432 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:28:25 EDT Re: Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029422 moonpuppy : Maybe the local community didn't want their streets dug up.

They could be like the NIMBYs in MD. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029422 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:26:43 EDT Thames Valley Communications = Losers http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029397 pnh102 : Perhaps instead of waiting for a competitor to help them out, maybe a better course of action would have been to get franchise rights to dig into the ground and run underground cable instead.

Oh wait, it is easier to blame your competitor instead.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20029397 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:22:19 EDT