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AmericanISP

@verio.net

I'm proud to be an American

At least I know I'm free


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by AmericanISP :

At least I know I'm free
If France and UK adopt ISP enforcement policies, hopefully the US won't be far behind.


AmericanISP

@verio.net
I doubt that very seriously. There will always be an ISP's that will make money promoting "We are not the RIAA Cops"

This is America not puke UK and France!!!


Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Denver, CO
reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

said by AmericanISP :

At least I know I'm free
If France and UK adopt ISP enforcement policies, hopefully the US won't be far behind.
I think everyone on this site knows that you are anti-piracy and pro-RIAA/MPAA, which is ok, its your opinion.

But, what I don't understand is why you support more regulation and governmental involvement on the internet (especially since you come from a conservative background). Regardless if these policies limit piracy, they will harm the innovation and freedom of the internet, which imo far outweighs trying to prevent some poor college student from downloading a song.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to AmericanISP
ISPs should not ever be required to be the Cops. its not up to the tollbooth people on the NJ Turnpike to make sure every car is legal, no that is the job of the police.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN

3 recommendations

reply to Omega
said by Omega:

I think everyone on this site knows that you are anti-piracy and pro-RIAA/MPAA, which is ok, its your opinion.

But, what I don't understand is why you support more regulation and governmental involvement on the internet (especially since you come from a conservative background). Regardless if these policies limit piracy, they will harm the innovation and freedom of the internet, which imo far outweighs trying to prevent some poor college student from downloading a song.
Because he and others like him support regulation ONLY when it means more $$$ for the bottom line of his masters, nothing more. As soon as the regulation being considered is made to trump the shady practices of his masters towards their customers, he suddenly starts blabbering about less regulation and how it is not the government business to get involved. In other words, just like the companies he vehemently defends, he wants to have his cake and eat it. It has nothing to do with common sense.
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA *


Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Chuckey, TN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to AmericanISP
said by AmericanISP :

At least I know I'm free
Are you kidding me? What goes on in Europe almost certainly will come to the US. (Warrant-less wire taps, detaining prisoners without charges, surveillance on every street corner...) Europe is America's guinea pig. All hail the new world order.
--
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- Plato -


guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

1 recommendation

reply to FFH5
said by FFH5:

said by AmericanISP :

At least I know I'm free
If France and UK adopt ISP enforcement policies, hopefully the US won't be far behind.
Knock this shit talk off, are you American or not?

One who waves the red, white and blue every chance you get. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm suprised you suggested the U.S.A adopt foreign countries laws into the United States over our own current policy/law. We fought and won our God given independence from England a long time ago.

I'm shocked by your statement we should adopt laws in the U.K and France as our own. Have you completely lost your marbles? WTF Junkmail. Talk about a liberal stance, do not ever suggest the U.S.A adopt any foreign countries policy.

Did you hear that sound.? Yup, it was the sound of this countrys founding fathers abd service men & women who gave their livesfor this country, rolling over in their graves.

It makes it appear as if our citizens who served in our armed service are dying and have died for nothing. What do you suggest next? We roll the clock back to 1939 Germany and adopt their policies?

Back on topic
Ah, exactly what America needs. More fu*ckin government meddling in our life's 24/7. Before the government in this Country adopts such an asinine idea to clean up illegal file sharing. They damn well better clean up on their own illegal activity(F.I.S.A.) violations immediately, first & foremost.

Honestly if there were terrorists in this country and their phones were tapped. Why are they still here? It's common sense, the NSA tapped the phones of terrorists. Go pick them the fu*k up BEFORE another 9/11 attack happens.

Either government is lying about there being in country terrorists, or the police state has become so big and bold, that government now views its own citizens with contempt. While it carries out huge fishing expeditions. We the people went seemingly over night, from "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". To you ARE guilty we just need to illegally wiretap and disregard all laws, so we can have time and evidence to prove it

The dirty laundry list: Total lack of respect for Constitutional rights. Politically, yet secretly they deep six-ed the 4th Amendment, passed legislation making themselves immune from redress of grievances under the blanket coverage, of the national security act.

While Heil der Bushler along with DemoPub henchmen, claimed such dictatorship treasonous actions IS lawful.

Illegal wire tapping under Bush hole the LIAR, his administration and the demopublican Congress, wanting to grant immunity to those teleco's who illegally handed over information, "in an all you can eat buffet style".

Rewarding illegal immigrants immunity by giving them drivers licenses, among other wrongs Congress has yet to address. Thanked ATT by allowing mergers so Ma bell could get back in bed with congress, to do currupt business as usual.

Republicans want to take away, successfully so far, every Americans right to life, liberty, privacy and the pursuit of happiness. Democrats are joining their ranks. Their voting records reveal this fact.

Democrats want to take away the 2nd Amendment Right. Gee what message is emerging here? Answer: One is up the creek, so to speak if the fool doesn't have a clue.

Last but not least:
Rule by fear or rule by law?

The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist."

- Winston Churchill, Nov. 21, 1943

Since 9/11, and seemingly without the notice of most Americans, the federal government has assumed the authority to institute martial law, arrest a wide swath of dissidents (citizen and non citizen alike), and detain people without legal or constitutional recourse in the event of "an emergency influx of immigrants in the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs."

Beginning in 1999, the government has entered into a series of single-bid contracts with Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) to build detention camps at undisclosed locations within the United States. The government has also contracted with several companies to build thousands of railcars, some reportedly equipped with shackles, ostensibly to transport detainees.

More
»www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c···PQJ7.DTL

One comment observed, spoke well of the growing dire situation.

okthatsit wrote:
I have researched US Govt policy, both foreign and domestic, keeping abreast with the latest technologies and whistleblowers within government agencies. What is being written here is absolutely true. In fact, much more could be added. In face of our own Constitutional demise, a war with no end and economic collapse, all of US should be paying attention to such descriptions. AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP NOW!
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions.


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

1 recommendation

reply to Omega

Shilling Effect.

TK brings debatable points to the table, but if you find a flaw and point it out, he rarely, if ever, responds to it. What's the point of offering your point of view in a debate forum if you're not willing to support or defend it?

Ultimately it makes his points as shallow as those he attempts to rebut. It's kind of sad actually. If you've no philosophy behind your opinion, you really are just a shill.

I have a different stand on software and movies than I do music. Software and movies are owned or managed by the creators. There isn't the high level theft and collusion that there is in the music industry.

I do have a problem with marketing and manipulation, without ethics, in media, so I support online d/l of tv shows, as retaliation. However, I purchase and encourage purchasing of commercial free DVD's. It takes the advertisers out of the process and allows the creators to profit.

The quality of software has increased tremendously in the last 10 years and the prices are much more reasonable. There is also a glut of open source and freeware product, that is actually quite good. So the software vendors have a pretty good leg to stand on.

The music industry however.....
Jail the executives, end the fraud, theft and collusion and I'll support anti-piracy measures. Deal?

NV

nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
reply to AmericanISP

Re: I'm proud to be an American

said by AmericanISP :

At least I know I'm free
in the U.S.? you sure about that?


factchecker

@cox.net

1 recommendation

reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan:

I'm suprised you suggested the U.S.A adopt foreign countries laws into the United States over our own current policy/law. We fought and won our God given independence from England a long time ago.

I'm shocked by your statement we should adopt laws in the U.K and France as our own. Have you completely lost your marbles? WTF Junkmail. Talk about a liberal stance, do not ever suggest the U.S.A adopt any foreign countries policy.
So, what if it was a good policy that had positive results (as opposed to this assinine policy)? Would you simply oppose it because it originated from a foreign country or would you be willing to examine it based on its merits ?

The reason I ask is because you seem to be rejecting the policy based entirely on the fact that it originated over seas, not at all based on its merit.


RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Noah Vail

US Gov to ISPs: Stop Privacy By 2009, Or Else

There is the revised headline.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.


Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

1 edit
reply to Noah Vail

Re: Shilling Effect.

said by Noah Vail:

I have a different stand on software and movies than I do music. Software and movies are owned or managed by the creators. There isn't the high level theft and collusion that there is in the music industry.

Software, maybe. Movies, absolutely not. Case in point of
the latter: Newline Cinema is being sued by the heirs of
J.R.R. Tolkein and Harper Collins for using the ideas in
the Lord Of The Rings and not paying them any royalties
for doing so. In other words, they are doing the same
thing they accuse p2p users of doing.

Another case in point: Disney, one of the worst
violators when it comes to others' copyrights, was sued
not too long ago by the heirs of Solomon Linda, the
original creator of The Lion Sleeps Tonight for using it in
The Lion King and paying a paltry $15,000 in royalties.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)


RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by Doctor Four:

In order words, they are doing the same thing they accuse p2p users of doing.
Actually it is much, much worse. P2p users generally are not out for profit. New Line Cinema is all about profit, and intentional copyright violation for profit should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. A good lot of p2p is collecting for the sake of collecting.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.


guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
reply to factchecker

Re: I'm proud to be an American

said by factchecker :

So, what if it was a good policy that had positive results (as opposed to this assinine policy)? Would you simply oppose it because it originated from a foreign country or would you be willing to examine it based on its merits ?

The reason I ask is because you seem to be rejecting the policy based entirely on the fact that it originated over seas, not at all based on its merit.
I reject it due to the fact it's foreign policy of another country. Yes I reject that very idea or notion outright, it's total foolishness. Its complete nitwittery magnified to the power of 1000.

I agree with Junkmail on a lot of issues. For TK to make a statement like that suggestion. IMO is over the line and told him/her so in no uncertain terms.

Being an American I want my country to be a leader not a follower. Nor should ANY foreign policy be adopted by America as its own and applied to American citizens.

Canada, would not adopt our foreign policy of how we deal with illegal aliens, to suggest they do so is assinine.

Perhaps we should adopt Iran's badmood Iminnajihad's idea of foreign policy as well? It works for them.

Examine China's censorship policy if you will.

Would you oppose the type of censorship China has, from being implemented in the States?

Forget the fact it it originated over seas in a communist country. Based upon its merits censorship works! Should it be adopted here because it has "positive results" for China's leadership?

Look at the out sourcing of jobs to India. Where they earn a lot less money than you or I. Yet, India's foreign policy works, people are earning a living. Should American base its workforce pay scale upon India's foreign policy? Hey, look on the bright side, it has positive results for India! Lets allow corporations to lobby politicians to implement it here in the U.S.A.

American policy should be based upon American policy alone. NOT some other frickin foreign country's policy. If you have trouble understanding and grasping the error of your thinking, which appears that America should adopt a foreign country's policy as our own is baseless & devoid of merit.

Then there is no possible way to reason logically with one who thinks so little of his/her own country that we should adopt a policy of a foreign country. Considering such an idea, I find it to be rash and very illogical form of thinking. Well, more like a solution looking for a non existent problem.

Perhaps Sweden con be convinced to adopt copyright laws the RIAA gestapo want imposed, sue them out of existence because of the piratebay! My my what a lesson our RIAA lawyers will teach them, we'll show "em" by George! Not only is form of thinking pure nitwittery, its also very assinine.

There is an old adage: If one invites or allows a camel to pokes its nose into your tent, before you realize it, the entire body connected to the camel will be inside the tent as well.

Hank

--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions.

The Antihero

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan:

Knock this shit talk off, are you American or not?
He's pro-big business, anti-average person, and pro-government. Unless, of course, the government proposes something that will hurt big business.


guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
reply to Sly
said by Sly:

said by AmericanISP :

At least I know I'm free
Are you kidding me? What goes on in Europe almost certainly will come to the US. (Warrant-less wire taps, detaining prisoners without charges, surveillance on every street corner...) Europe is America's guinea pig. All hail the new world order.
That which you describe is happening here now and getting bigger by the day.
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions.


factchecker

@cox.net
reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan:

I reject it due to the fact it's foreign policy of another country. Yes I reject that very idea or notion outright, it's total foolishness. Its complete nitwittery magnified to the power of 1000.
In other words, you refuse to examine policies based on their merits... Interesting, especially when you continue by saying...

Then there is no possible way to reason logically with one who thinks so little of his/her own country that we should adopt a policy of a foreign country. Considering such an idea, I find it to be rash and very illogical form of thinking. Well, more like a solution looking for a non existent problem.
Interesting that you speak of logic, when in fact your position is not based on logic.

Rejecting an idea based on who came up with it or where it originated from instead of its merits is as illogical and irrational as it gets. A rational person examines everything based on its merits, claims and the facts that support it and NEVER dismisses something off the cuff.

Seriously, if mankind operated like that, we would still believe the sun revolved the flat earth, still be performing exorcisms for the flu and dunking women in rivers for witchcraft.

To toss the red herring of patriotism and anti-Americanism in there only serves to further errode you argument.

Yes, I disagree with adopting this policy of forcing ISPs to be copyright police, but purely because the merits of such an idea suck wind, not just because some foreigner came up with them. And that's the only rational/logical way to reject the idea.

And just so you know... The idea for ISPs to play copyright police is an American idea, bred by American companies and organizations. The RIAA has been pushing for it for years. The UK just jumped on board before the US ISPs did...


Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to Doctor Four

Re: Shilling Effect.

I may be out of touch on the movie making process. My understanding is that the majority of movies are made in house and often distributed by the studio or a subsidiary.

It's different than an artist who uses the studio's equipment, but writes and plays the music. Movies have one person write the script, the company composes and distributes the movie.

The cost of filming a movie vs performing an album is hugely different; unless you're Michael Jackson.

Hmmm. I'll have to give this some more thought. There's too many variables and too many stories I'm sure I haven't read yet.

Maybe I'll come to despise Big Film as well.

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.


guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
reply to factchecker

Re: I'm proud to be an American

said by factchecker :

A rational person examines everything based on its merits, claims and the facts that support it and NEVER dismisses something off the cuff.
Any RIAA/MPAA, lies concerning piracy using the same tired old excuse of, we're going to the poor house, can be dismissed off the cuff.

RIAA/MPAA does not disclose information to support the claims they make. The bravo sierra these mega corps are blowing, MUST be dismissed off the cuff.

This breed of terrorists has yet to produce one shred of evidence to back up their claims of losing $$$$. Yeah poor old millionaires losing millions by leaching off the success of musicians.

One does not have to experience communism first hand to easily dismiss something off the cuff, same goes for Islam, satanism, liberalism, socialism, Scientology, fascism, bigger more intrusive government involvement to micro manage every aspect of ones life from cradle to grave.

quote:
To toss the red herring of patriotism and anti-Americanism in there only serves/snip.
For a person who is carrying Bush's tune in a bucket,(Junkmail) wants more NSA spying to protect Americans or rather corporate America's interests, claims to be conservative, wants MORE intrusive bigger government. Also claims Americans are not loosing any of our liberty or privacy rights to more intrusive, government activities conducted in secretive questionable methods.

It's ironic for one to say we are not losing our freedoms. Then acting as the main cheerleader for the U.S. to adopt policies of foreign countries. Perhaps the government is floating trial balloons here to see how it flies.

What it will boil down to is this: US Gov to ISPs: Stop Privacy By 2009, Or else. Suppose this becomes law. Then what does Or ELSE mean? Water boarding? Labeled internet music terrorists? Or else, OR ELSE F'N WHAT ?

A rational person, could see the fallacy of such faulty logic and where it is headed. Will one be subject to additional or amended foreign policy laws as well? If adopted we will have to play by a new set of rules?

Due to the patriot and national security act. Its now secretive what laws we must abide by. No one knows what they are until the government decides someone broke the law defined under those acts. Then to cheer lead, the U.S should adopt foreign policy of another country. Should send shivers down ones spine, because when adopted we will not be America anymore.

All it is is a power grab for power and control, until we the people are not citizens, but subjects. IMO, this has absolutely very little to do with music traders. Just a absolutely corrupt power grab. Compare it to a dog on a leash, who is at the mercy of the people holding its leash.

I couldn't give a rats azz if some foreigner in his own country had a brain fart of an idea. As an American. My first concern is America and fellow Americans, not some idiotic policy of a foreign country or some numbnuts farting out rational, logical enlightened brain farts of ideas. UNLESS some dimwit in Congress tries to make it an official policy here in the U.S.A

There are plenty of talented smart people right here in the U.S.A, screw some smart imbecile in another country.

FROCK this thread and topic, especially when the suggestion America implement a foreign countries policies as our own. That is a disgrace and shameful insult to members of the Armed Services who gave their life for the freedom American once offered. I can see it now before Bush leaves office.

Bush: due to the epidemic of illegal music trading. I declare a state of emergency, because file trading over the internet tube thangys caused a national disaster. Clearly its a threat to nationalwide security of epidemical proportions. I now declared marshalls law until farther notice. Congress has been disbanded. All these music swapping terrorists, must be dealth with swiftly.
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to AmericanISP
*Coming soon to the USA


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to guitarzan
While I butt heads with many of your opinions, I can't find anything to argue about in this post, and especially want to repeat this quote:
Either government is lying about there being in country terrorists, or the police state has become so big and bold, that government now views its own citizens with contempt. While it carries out huge fishing expeditions. We the people went seemingly over night, from "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". To you ARE guilty we just need to illegally wiretap and disregard all laws, so we can have time and evidence to prove it

--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to AmericanISP
im against this because the ISP shouldnt have to pay the job of police. its like a state telling Walmart they have to make sure all cars in their lots are registered and not stolen.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
reply to KrK
I know we butt heads quite a bit. Which IMO makes for a healthy debate. However, the people you and I should have butting heads is our elected officials. Because the Executive branch of government today as we know it, has stripped the legislative branch of its power. It routinely over rules and overturns laws upheld by the judiciary branch.

As to the post you find nothing to argue against. KrK, I have to call it as I see it. I Thank you, we agreed on something, instead of bumping heads.

To be honest I do not expect presidential elections to take place this November, or expect Bush giving up the White house. All because of the "continuity of government", AKA (NSPD-51) Bush is corrupt enough to implement it IMHO.

Although I'm no fan or supporter of the ACLU. What is troublesome is: Supreme Court Rejects ACLU Challenge to Warrant-less Surveillance Program.

The Supreme Court dealt a setback to civil rights and privacy advocates who oppose the Bush administration's warrant-less wiretapping program.

The justices, without comment, turned down an appeal from the American Civil Liberties Union to let it pursue a lawsuit against the program that began shortly after the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

Government had this tidy package all bundled and needed an excuse to spring this trap on American citizens. Google "North American Union and Vchip", just for shits and giggles.

Notice Bush's actions were unremarked upon by the court. Executive branch officials alone decide what limits, if any were applied at all. According to author Naomi Wolf, the National Counterterrorism Center holds the names of roughly 775,000 "terror suspects" with the number increasing by 20,000 per month.

What is government up to that leads it to make contingency plans to detain without recourse millions of its own citizens?

Bush has responded to critics with: The terrorist Surveillance Program no longer exists, Bush insists it was legal.

The ACLU sued on behalf of itself, other lawyers, reporters and scholars, arguing that the program was illegal. The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals dismissed the suit, saying the plaintiffs could not prove their communications had been monitored and thus could not prove they had been harmed by the program. Although that is one hell of a kick in the ass, yet the rabbit hole goes deeper.

ACLU officials described the situation as a "Catch-22" because the government says the identities of people whose communications have been intercepted is secret. But only people who know they have been wiretapped can sue over the program.

The Military Commissions Act of 2006, rammed through Congress just before the 2006 midterm elections, allows for the indefinite imprisonment of anyone who donates money to a charity that turns up on a list of "terrorist" organizations, or who speaks out against the government's policies. The law calls for secret trials for citizens and non-citizens alike.

Also in 2007, the White House quietly issued National Security Presidential Directive 51 (NSPD-51), to ensure "continuity of government" in the event of what the document vaguely calls a "catastrophic emergency." Should the president determine that such an emergency has occurred, he and he alone is empowered to do whatever he deems necessary to ensure "continuity of government." This could include everything from canceling elections to suspending the Constitution to launching a nuclear attack. Congress has yet to hold a single hearing on NSPD-51.
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by guitarzan:

To be honest I do not expect presidential elections to take place this November, or expect Bush giving up the White house. All because of the "continuity of government", AKA (NSPD-51) Bush is corrupt enough to implement it IMHO.
Get out the tin-foil hat for that one.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page


guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
TK, I hope you are correct about the tin foil hat, hell lets toss in the kool aid drink for a good measure of insurance as well.

The old: If one has nothing to hide, one has nothing to worry about. How about the Government try this on for size?

If one has no intention to use (NSPD-51). Why would one need that executive directive? Why give immunity to telecos if no laws were broken? An innocent man does not run, nor need immunity if he has nothing to hide.

Nor is there a reason to violate ones 4th Amendment right, just because it can be done. TK, unfettered access to all you communications, public or private, with time and I will find some crime to tie around your neck eventually.

TK, you and I, both know this has nothing to do concerning file trading or MPAA/RIAA. It's nothing more than government illegally overstepping its bounds, in any way possible 1st chance it gets.

Just look at the donations holyfu*kedupwood made to Democrats or Senators/Representatives of both sides of the aisle who pocketed money from these sleazebags. Not to mention the all the lawyers the keep on hand to sue dead people, Mac users, minors etc etc etc.

Besides, it's not the governments job to do the dirty work for and clean the shitty laundry of the RIAA/MPAA. Soon file trading will include overhearing my neighbors radio or visa versa and will qualify as file sharing, while knocking a few cold ones back or shootin the shit.

Some kid(s) want to trade music files. Go head who the fu*k cares, government has more on its plate these days to worry about, then some kids swapping music.

No wonder people hate government to the point of not caring to vote.

How fu*ked up is the government when it is more concerned about azzhole RIAA profit, then it does about disabled war vets or any war vet for that matter, Walter Reed hospital is one example.

Politicians need to get their heads out of the asses of RIAA/MPAA and other private corporations, including the teleco's azzholes.

Every time we go to the poles to vote. "we the people" go their with the sole purpose of wiping the governments dirty azz.

No longer is it based on the better ideas of two men, its the lesser of two evils. Evil only breeds more evil, nothing good can ever come from it.

Jack Kemp once said. A high tide lifts all boats. When was the last time congress or any president besides Ronald Reagan, led this nation to that high tide?

Bush's old man, that liberal f**k abandoned Reagans policy once elected. Bush senior started the era of bigger government. It all started when he broke his pledge of "read my lips " no new taxes.

SR passed the tax hikes the democratic congress wanted and hung him out to dry by his lips. The old man said "read my lips". To Jr I say "between my hips", because Jr is continuing the compromise of this country his dad started.

The: either we fight the terrorists in Iraq or we fight them over here. Hmmm over here we have home field advantage.

Oh wait a minute that would actually require government to enforce the immigration laws already on the books or get off their azz and away from sitting listening to wiretaps.

A real war on terror would refuse entry into the united states anyone of arab or islamic descent.
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions.


FFH5
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by guitarzan:

How fu*ked up is the government when it is more concerned about azzhole RIAA profit
Because intellectual property is becoming a bigger and bigger part of the economy. To ignore that is to see the US economy continue to sink further than it already has. Software, movies, music, books, internet, etc is what is now keeping the US afloat. And the gov't is going to do what it can to protect those profits. And it isn't just for corporations, but for all the citizens whose jobs depend on the IP industries.
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
said by FFH5:

Because intellectual property is becoming a bigger and bigger part of the economy. To ignore that is to see the US economy continue to sink further than it already has. Software, movies, music, books, internet, etc is what is now keeping the US afloat. And the gov't is going to do what it can to protect those profits. And it isn't just for corporations, but for all the citizens whose jobs depend on the IP industries.
That which you have listed IS exactly why we as a country continue to sink further and further economically. It's because we are no longer a manufacturing giant. Here is an article I read somewhere on the net. I do not know the person who wrote it. IMO it describes precisely what is ailing America today and why.

The harsh reality is that the forces allied against us both foreign and domestic are formidable
Submitted by Richard Clark, Nov 13, 2007 14:27

It is important that every American understand that this next Presidential election will be the most pivotal in our countries history. You will not hear these views expressed in the mainstream media with any degree of urgency. Why that is, I can only speculate, but I suspect special interests keep the media in check. The harsh reality is that the forces allied against us both foreign and domestic are formidable, to say the least. If we do not stand up and face them together in a unified way they will overwhelm us.

In no particular order:

We have been in Iraq now for longer than we were in World War Two. The cost of this exercise is projected to be between 1-2 Trillion dollars. Now, I am all for protecting our national interests but let's be realistic, I think we have done more than enough for the people of Iraq. It is their future let them be the stewards of it. If we truly want them to practice democracy then let them choose their own path, even if that means the only democratic choice they make in their lives is to not to be a democratic. This war has dragged on for way to long. Am I the only one who thinks the argument that we are fighting terrorists there, in order not to fight them here, is so moronically simplistic as to be insulting? This war must end and we need to let the chips fall where they may. We have more pressing domestic problems on the horizon.

Illegal immigration is an issue that must be addressed in a practical way. With an estimated 12-20 million illegal immigrants currently residing in the U.S. with more entering the country every day, the impact on the US taxpayer is an unfair burden. I see this as an affront to the American people's sensibilities. It is obvious that these people have broken our laws and are being rewarded for it. I cannot reconcile any argument for allowing them to stay in the country, least of all the argument that it is simply expedient. If for some reason, they were allowed naturalization, the result would be a political shift changing the balance of power in the country. How can anyone with a conscience and a sense of fairness justify this outcome? Regardless of the reason, they broke our laws and violated our sovereignty. Simply put, they are criminals and should be treated as such. I do not care that they work hard and do the jobs for much less than US workers. If we allow them citizenship, all that would end overnight as they would then be subject to protection under US labor laws. Any politician that supports the case for letting them stay is simply Un-American and deserves to be removed from office. After all, are not our leaders supposed to be upholding our laws? They do not have the right to choose which laws they will enforce and which they will ignore because of a personal bias. It is a dereliction of duty for our leaders to undermine our system of laws. It might take time, but we should systematically deport these people and tighten the control of our borders so that they cannot return. In addition, a law needs to be passed that any children born of illegal immigrants in this country should be returned to the parent's country of origin. The law that allows them citizenship now was not intended for illegal aliens but only for those people in this country legally.

Fiscally, the United States is on the brink of insolvency, the rest of the world knows it even if the majority of Americans do not. This issue is pivotal. The power of the United States is not derived from its military might but from its wealth. A countries wealth is created when its labor is used to take raw materials and fashion them into products that have increased value, which then can be sold outside of the country increasing the countries coffers. Since the advent of globalization, our manufacturing capabilities have been drastically reduced. The economy in the United States has become increasingly service based. The fastest growing jobs in the US are service jobs. According the bureau of labor statistics the fastest growing jobs in the US are:

1. Computer systems software engineer
2. Computer applications software engineer
3. Biomedical engineer
4. Physician assistant
5. Environmental engineer
6. Computer systems analyst
7. Database administrator
8. Physical therapist
9. Network systems and data communication analyst
10. Hydrologist

Not a single one of these jobs on this list can be considered a manufacturing based job. We have software, health care, and environmental industries represented. What is important about this list is that very little cross border wealth transfer occurs due to these industries, certainly nothing to put on a ship and export.

It is impossible for our economy to grow unless we are increasing the countries overall wealth. I take exception with the way our government reports economic growth in the US via the GDP. Over 70% of the US Gross Domestic Product is consumer spending! Let that sink in for a moment. That means that the government is calculating growth on the amount of money that we spend. Most of that spending is on goods from foreign countries and a good deal of that spending recently was borrowed due to people using their homes as an ATM machine. I have always viewed my own economic growth on how much my net worth increases and not on how much of my net worth I spent. Is what the GDP represents really economic growth? Hardly, since most of this money is ending up overseas. In order for there to be true growth the US trade deficit would have to be negative. As long as the trade deficit positive then our economy is retracting.

Now this retraction is being represented by the weakening of our nation's currency. The dollar has fell 10.5% this year alone. Given the aforementioned fact, that we are running a huge trade deficit and our currency is weakening, it naturally follows that we will be paying more for imported goods. Oil is now approaching the $100 per barrel mark and I believe that this will continue to move higher in the near future.

Anyone who is trying to save money without risking it in the stock market can attest to not being able to keep up with inflation. The CPI is a fantasy. It is yet another sleight of hand number that the US government uses to lull the population into thinking that inflation is under control. Without going into detail, I suggest you look up how this is calculated and decide for yourselves if the government is in fact misleading the public.

The trade deficit is not the only reason that we will be seeing inflation increase in the United Sates. A good deal of the blame should be put squarely on the shoulders of the US Central Bank. This organization created by congress in 1913 has systematically increased the US money supply devaluing our currency. The bubble economies of the last two decades are a direct result of their policies. The current housing market debacle is a perfect example. The central bank under Alan Greenspan's leadership lowered the overnight bank rates to a paltry one percent in order to promote domestic economic growth as they measure it with the GDP. Again this promoted spending and not saving. Because interest rates were so low, mortgages rates were favorable; this in turn increased demand and drove housing through the roof. This chain of events was further exacerbated by the investment banks. Since, mortgage rates are typically a couple of points higher than the Fed's overnight rate the investment banks saw an opportunity. They in their infinite wisdom bought mortgages from the primary lenders and packaged them into SIV's and CDO's which were then made available to only the wealthiest investors, pension and mutual fund managers. As a result, the primary lenders were again and again infused with cash and continued to originate mortgages. Once the conventional loan market (those with good credit) was exhausted, the banks lowered their lending standards and the subprime market was born. Institutions now began lending to unqualified borrowers and real estate speculators which the investment banks packaged and sold as well. This went on until the first batch of adjustable rate mortgages reset and the unqualified borrowers began to default because they could not afford the higher payments. As a result the income stream to the CDO's and SIV's began to dry up and the investment banks could no longer pay dividends to their investors. In addition, the underlying value of the homes the mortgages were based upon fell making it next to impossible for the investment banks to value the assets. Because of the difficulty in valuing these assets, banks became reticent to lend to one another because they did not have a clear picture of each other's collateral and thus a credit crisis ensued. So this is where we find ourselves today. The credit markets are in turmoil, housing prices are still falling and the bottom is nowhere in sight.

Instead of letting the market work like it should by punishing the investment banks and those invested in these toxic financially engineered CDO's and SIV's and other speculative investments, including real estate speculators. The Federal Reserve stepped in and began printing money to alleviate the pressure on the credit markets. As a result, the appearance of a massive bailout has caused a run on the dollar. Ben Bernanke has effectively placed the burden on the citizenry by devaluing the currency. When asked about the Central Banks response to the credit crisis due to the effect of printing money and devaluing the currency at the recent senate banking committee hearing, Ben Bernanke basically gave what can only be described as a "let them eat cake" response. In essence, he dismissed the idea that the Central Banks recent actions were inflationary saying that since Americans were paid in dollars and what they buy is in dollars therefore there is no effect on the US consumer of the recent dollar devaluation. I find that to be a contemptuous statement. Given the current price of oil, food, and other commodities, Bernanke is either very stupid or very out of touch. I think the statement alone shows his lack of mental acumen because, his response shows an arrogant disdain for the average American. He is biting the hand that feeds him and will continue to do so until we put a stop to this madness.

We are all now paying for the sins of greedy financial institutions and the irresponsible Federal Reserve. Now the worst part of all of this is that the Fed is an independent institution that controls the US money supply. When the Fed "injects liquidity" they simply create money out of thin air and, get this, they extract a fee for it. They make money on every dollar they print. The printing of money and the deliberate devaluation of the currency is a hidden tax on the American people by an unelected body. This is unconstitutional, as it is taxation without representation. There is no other way to look at it. The Congress of the United States was specifically given the power to create money in the Constitution. In 1913 they delegated the authority to the Federal Reserve giving them complete autonomy. In my view the Federal Reserve needs to be eliminated and control of the money supply given back to the people through their elected officials.

Given the current economic realities the government must reign in spending and take on the issues of paying off the national debt which is 9.1 trillion and counting. How are we to pay this back? There is no other way then to reduce government spending and eliminate domestic government liabilities, namely the massive amount of entitlement debt in this country. Congress just raised the cap on the national debt by 850 billion dollars to 9.815 trillion because on October 1 the debt surpassed the limit of 9 trillion dollars. Since then, it is already at 9.1 trillion and increases at the rate of 183 million dollars a day due to interest and, the rate is accelerating. It will not be more than three months and they will have to increase the cap again. This is tantamount to letting a borrower who is over their credit card limit to continually raise the limit and make the minimum payments with the increased credit. This is a staggering problem. Are we going to address this or wait until we default on or obligations and become a third world economy?

Is it not apparent that we cannot continue with the status quo? Is it not obvious that our elected officials are not doing their jobs? We need to make the hard choices now, before it is too late. If we wait they will be forced upon them by a worthless currency and a massive recession. Our leaders through inaction driven by fear of not being elected are not shooting straight with the American people. They are robbing your futures and selling our children's into economic slavery.

The cruel reality is that it is now too late to save Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. We just have to except that as a fact. We cannot continue to delude ourselves that we can have our cake and eat it too. The current estimate of the entitlement obligations over the next 20 years is 50 trillion dollars. Hey, we simply do not have it. As I mentioned before, our economy is retracting based on the trade deficit. The only way the government can collect this much in revenue is to put an undue tax burden on the next generation. The additional burden, I might add, is one that those getting ready to retire did not have to shoulder themselves. The retiring generation should have paid more attention to what their government was doing with their money. It is not the future generation's fault that they allowed themselves to be swindled by their leaders. It is up to the future generation to make sure that they are not similarly misled.

It behooves us to eliminate these programs for retirees who, through a means test, are determined not to require it. Any savings incurred should be applied to paying off the national debt and returning solvency to our country. Tax reform must be undertaken to close loopholes for the rich and for corporations in order to insure everyone is paying their fair share. We should also include tax incentives for small businesses as they are who employs the vast majority of Americans. Small business is currently carrying too great a load of the tax burden.

Major changes must be made in order for our country not to be undermined. We cannot keep putting off the hard choices we face simply because they are unpopular.

We can make a difference if only we make ourselves heard. We have to be prepared to take drastic measures in order to ensure that our government represents us and not the special interests. We need wholesale change in our government. That means we do not vote for career politicians but, for honest citizens, who understand the crisis we are facing and are willing to begin by reforming our government. No solutions are possible until government reform is implemented. That means our elected officials have to give up the perks and limit the influence of the moneyed special interests.

Can you honestly say that the current crop of people running for higher office in this country is selfless enough to embrace wholesale change? These people have been born of this corrupt system. We have to look outside the parties and find qualified individuals to change the way we conduct our government. I for one do not want to reward anyone involved in getting us to this point. Because either they were too stupid to realize what was going on or to corrupt to care.

I used to be a republican, until George W. Bush exorbitantly increased the debt by overwhelming proportions. I called the republican national committee when Bush was promoting his immigration bill and simply asked them whether or not they supported the bill. I could not get a straight answer. They lost me then and there. I simply cannot be a democrat because I believe in personal responsibility and they do not. I now consider myself not only an independent but, more importantly a pragmatist. I have been driven to this by the reality that, no matter who occupies the highest offices in our land, nothing significantly changes. Each successive congress fails to address the biggest issues of our day. They are mired in party politics and self interest. The American people are getting lost in the shuffle and we should be angry about it, angry enough to spark change.

Let there be no mistake about it. This election is going to be about the economic future of the country. We are at a fork in the river that once passed there will be no going back. Now is the time to choose. Now is the time to speak out and be heard. It really is up to us.

Richard Clark
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions.