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AmericanISP
@verio.net | I'm proud to be an American
At least I know I'm free  | |
GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| said by AmericanISP :At least I know I'm free If France and UK adopt ISP enforcement policies, hopefully the US won't be far behind. | |
AmericanISP
@verio.net | I doubt that very seriously. There will always be an ISP's that will make money promoting "We are not the RIAA Cops"
This is America not puke UK and France!!! | |
Omega
Displaced Ohioan
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Cheyenne, WY
clubs: 
·Bresnan Online
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Comcast
 ·AT&T Midwest
| reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN  :said by AmericanISP :At least I know I'm free If France and UK adopt ISP enforcement policies, hopefully the US won't be far behind. I think everyone on this site knows that you are anti-piracy and pro-RIAA/MPAA, which is ok, its your opinion.
But, what I don't understand is why you support more regulation and governmental involvement on the internet (especially since you come from a conservative background). Regardless if these policies limit piracy, they will harm the innovation and freedom of the internet, which imo far outweighs trying to prevent some poor college student from downloading a song. | |
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to AmericanISP
ISPs should not ever be required to be the Cops. its not up to the tollbooth people on the NJ Turnpike to make sure every car is legal, no that is the job of the police.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| reply to Omega
said by Omega :I think everyone on this site knows that you are anti-piracy and pro-RIAA/MPAA, which is ok, its your opinion. But, what I don't understand is why you support more regulation and governmental involvement on the internet (especially since you come from a conservative background). Regardless if these policies limit piracy, they will harm the innovation and freedom of the internet, which imo far outweighs trying to prevent some poor college student from downloading a song. Because he and others like him support regulation ONLY when it means more $$$ for the bottom line of his masters, nothing more. As soon as the regulation being considered is made to trump the shady practices of his masters towards their customers, he suddenly starts blabbering about less regulation and how it is not the government business to get involved. In other words, just like the companies he vehemently defends, he wants to have his cake and eat it. It has nothing to do with common sense.
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * | |
Sly
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Johnson City, TN
clubs:
 ·Packet8
·Callcentric
·Comcast Formerly ..
| reply to AmericanISP
said by AmericanISP :At least I know I'm free Are you kidding me? What goes on in Europe almost certainly will come to the US. (Warrant-less wire taps, detaining prisoners without charges, surveillance on every street corner...) Europe is America's guinea pig. All hail the new world order. 
--
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
- Plato - | |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| reply to GOLFnSUN
said by GOLFnSUN :said by AmericanISP :At least I know I'm free If France and UK adopt ISP enforcement policies, hopefully the US won't be far behind. Knock this shit talk off, are you American or not?
One who waves the red, white and blue every chance you get. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm suprised you suggested the U.S.A adopt foreign countries laws into the United States over our own current policy/law. We fought and won our God given independence from England a long time ago.
I'm shocked by your statement we should adopt laws in the U.K and France as our own. Have you completely lost your marbles? WTF Junkmail. Talk about a liberal stance, do not ever suggest the U.S.A adopt any foreign countries policy.
Did you hear that sound.? Yup, it was the sound of this countrys founding fathers abd service men & women who gave their livesfor this country, rolling over in their graves.
It makes it appear as if our citizens who served in our armed service are dying and have died for nothing. What do you suggest next? We roll the clock back to 1939 Germany and adopt their policies?
Back on topic
Ah, exactly what America needs. More fu*ckin government meddling in our life's 24/7. Before the government in this Country adopts such an asinine idea to clean up illegal file sharing. They damn well better clean up on their own illegal activity(F.I.S.A.) violations immediately, first & foremost.
Honestly if there were terrorists in this country and their phones were tapped. Why are they still here? It's common sense, the NSA tapped the phones of terrorists. Go pick them the fu*k up BEFORE another 9/11 attack happens.
Either government is lying about there being in country terrorists, or the police state has become so big and bold, that government now views its own citizens with contempt. While it carries out huge fishing expeditions. We the people went seemingly over night, from "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". To you ARE guilty we just need to illegally wiretap and disregard all laws, so we can have time and evidence to prove it
The dirty laundry list: Total lack of respect for Constitutional rights. Politically, yet secretly they deep six-ed the 4th Amendment, passed legislation making themselves immune from redress of grievances under the blanket coverage, of the national security act.
While Heil der Bushler along with DemoPub henchmen, claimed such dictatorship treasonous actions IS lawful.
Illegal wire tapping under Bush hole the LIAR, his administration and the demopublican Congress, wanting to grant immunity to those teleco's who illegally handed over information, "in an all you can eat buffet style".
Rewarding illegal immigrants immunity by giving them drivers licenses, among other wrongs Congress has yet to address. Thanked ATT by allowing mergers so Ma bell could get back in bed with congress, to do currupt business as usual.
Republicans want to take away, successfully so far, every Americans right to life, liberty, privacy and the pursuit of happiness. Democrats are joining their ranks. Their voting records reveal this fact.
Democrats want to take away the 2nd Amendment Right. Gee what message is emerging here? Answer: One is up the creek, so to speak if the fool doesn't have a clue.
Last but not least:
Rule by fear or rule by law?
The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist."
- Winston Churchill, Nov. 21, 1943
Since 9/11, and seemingly without the notice of most Americans, the federal government has assumed the authority to institute martial law, arrest a wide swath of dissidents (citizen and non citizen alike), and detain people without legal or constitutional recourse in the event of "an emergency influx of immigrants in the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs."
Beginning in 1999, the government has entered into a series of single-bid contracts with Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) to build detention camps at undisclosed locations within the United States. The government has also contracted with several companies to build thousands of railcars, some reportedly equipped with shackles, ostensibly to transport detainees.
More
»www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c···PQJ7.DTL
One comment observed, spoke well of the growing dire situation.
okthatsit wrote:
I have researched US Govt policy, both foreign and domestic, keeping abreast with the latest technologies and whistleblowers within government agencies. What is being written here is absolutely true. In fact, much more could be added. In face of our own Constitutional demise, a war with no end and economic collapse, all of US should be paying attention to such descriptions. AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP NOW!
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Omega
Shilling Effect.
TK brings debatable points to the table, but if you find a flaw and point it out, he rarely, if ever, responds to it. What's the point of offering your point of view in a debate forum if you're not willing to support or defend it?
Ultimately it makes his points as shallow as those he attempts to rebut. It's kind of sad actually. If you've no philosophy behind your opinion, you really are just a shill.
I have a different stand on software and movies than I do music. Software and movies are owned or managed by the creators. There isn't the high level theft and collusion that there is in the music industry.
I do have a problem with marketing and manipulation, without ethics, in media, so I support online d/l of tv shows, as retaliation. However, I purchase and encourage purchasing of commercial free DVD's. It takes the advertisers out of the process and allows the creators to profit.
The quality of software has increased tremendously in the last 10 years and the prices are much more reasonable. There is also a glut of open source and freeware product, that is actually quite good. So the software vendors have a pretty good leg to stand on.
The music industry however.....
Jail the executives, end the fraud, theft and collusion and I'll support anti-piracy measures. Deal?
NV | |
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | reply to AmericanISP
Re: I'm proud to be an American
said by AmericanISP :At least I know I'm free in the U.S.? you sure about that? | |
factchecker
@cox.net
 from:
GOLFnSUN
| reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan :I'm suprised you suggested the U.S.A adopt foreign countries laws into the United States over our own current policy/law. We fought and won our God given independence from England a long time ago. I'm shocked by your statement we should adopt laws in the U.K and France as our own. Have you completely lost your marbles? WTF Junkmail. Talk about a liberal stance, do not ever suggest the U.S.A adopt any foreign countries policy. So, what if it was a good policy that had positive results (as opposed to this assinine policy)? Would you simply oppose it because it originated from a foreign country or would you be willing to examine it based on its merits ?
The reason I ask is because you seem to be rejecting the policy based entirely on the fact that it originated over seas, not at all based on its merit. | |
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | reply to Noah Vail
US Gov to ISPs: Stop Privacy By 2009, Or Else
There is the revised headline.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | reply to Noah Vail
Re: Shilling Effect.
said by Noah Vail :I have a different stand on software and movies than I do music. Software and movies are owned or managed by the creators. There isn't the high level theft and collusion that there is in the music industry. Software, maybe. Movies, absolutely not. Case in point of
the latter: Newline Cinema is being sued by the heirs of
J.R.R. Tolkein and Harper Collins for using the ideas in
the Lord Of The Rings and not paying them any royalties
for doing so. In other words, they are doing the same
thing they accuse p2p users of doing.
Another case in point: Disney, one of the worst
violators when it comes to others' copyrights, was sued
not too long ago by the heirs of Solomon Linda, the
original creator of The Lion Sleeps Tonight for using it in
The Lion King and paying a paltry $15,000 in royalties.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
| |
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by Doctor Four :In order words, they are doing the same thing they accuse p2p users of doing. Actually it is much, much worse. P2p users generally are not out for profit. New Line Cinema is all about profit, and intentional copyright violation for profit should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. A good lot of p2p is collecting for the sake of collecting.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| reply to factchecker
Re: I'm proud to be an American
said by factchecker :
So, what if it was a good policy that had positive results (as opposed to this assinine policy)? Would you simply oppose it because it originated from a foreign country or would you be willing to examine it based on its merits ?
The reason I ask is because you seem to be rejecting the policy based entirely on the fact that it originated over seas, not at all based on its merit.
I reject it due to the fact it's foreign policy of another country. Yes I reject that very idea or notion outright, it's total foolishness. Its complete nitwittery magnified to the power of 1000.
I agree with Junkmail on a lot of issues. For TK to make a statement like that suggestion. IMO is over the line and told him/her so in no uncertain terms.
Being an American I want my country to be a leader not a follower. Nor should ANY foreign policy be adopted by America as its own and applied to American citizens.
Canada, would not adopt our foreign policy of how we deal with illegal aliens, to suggest they do so is assinine.
Perhaps we should adopt Iran's badmood Iminnajihad's idea of foreign policy as well? It works for them.
Examine China's censorship policy if you will.
Would you oppose the type of censorship China has, from being implemented in the States?
Forget the fact it it originated over seas in a communist country. Based upon its merits censorship works! Should it be adopted here because it has "positive results" for China's leadership?
Look at the out sourcing of jobs to India. Where they earn a lot less money than you or I. Yet, India's foreign policy works, people are earning a living. Should American base its workforce pay scale upon India's foreign policy? Hey, look on the bright side, it has positive results for India! Lets allow corporations to lobby politicians to implement it here in the U.S.A. 
American policy should be based upon American policy alone. NOT some other frickin foreign country's policy. If you have trouble understanding and grasping the error of your thinking, which appears that America should adopt a foreign country's policy as our own is baseless & devoid of merit.
Then there is no possible way to reason logically with one who thinks so little of his/her own country that we should adopt a policy of a foreign country. Considering such an idea, I find it to be rash and very illogical form of thinking. Well, more like a solution looking for a non existent problem.
Perhaps Sweden con be convinced to adopt copyright laws the RIAA gestapo want imposed, sue them out of existence because of the piratebay! My my what a lesson our RIAA lawyers will teach them, we'll show "em" by George! Not only is form of thinking pure nitwittery, its also very assinine.
There is an old adage: If one invites or allows a camel to pokes its nose into your tent, before you realize it, the entire body connected to the camel will be inside the tent as well.
Hank
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan : Knock this shit talk off, are you American or not? He's pro-big business, anti-average person, and pro-government. Unless, of course, the government proposes something that will hurt big business. | |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| reply to Sly
said by Sly :said by AmericanISP :At least I know I'm free Are you kidding me? What goes on in Europe almost certainly will come to the US. (Warrant-less wire taps, detaining prisoners without charges, surveillance on every street corner...) Europe is America's guinea pig. All hail the new world order. That which you describe is happening here now and getting bigger by the day.
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
factchecker
@cox.net
| reply to guitarzan
said by guitarzan :I reject it due to the fact it's foreign policy of another country. Yes I reject that very idea or notion outright, it's total foolishness. Its complete nitwittery magnified to the power of 1000. In other words, you refuse to examine policies based on their merits... Interesting, especially when you continue by saying...
Then there is no possible way to reason logically with one who thinks so little of his/her own country that we should adopt a policy of a foreign country. Considering such an idea, I find it to be rash and very illogical form of thinking. Well, more like a solution looking for a non existent problem. Interesting that you speak of logic, when in fact your position is not based on logic.
Rejecting an idea based on who came up with it or where it originated from instead of its merits is as illogical and irrational as it gets. A rational person examines everything based on its merits, claims and the facts that support it and NEVER dismisses something off the cuff.
Seriously, if mankind operated like that, we would still believe the sun revolved the flat earth, still be performing exorcisms for the flu and dunking women in rivers for witchcraft.
To toss the red herring of patriotism and anti-Americanism in there only serves to further errode you argument.
Yes, I disagree with adopting this policy of forcing ISPs to be copyright police, but purely because the merits of such an idea suck wind, not just because some foreigner came up with them. And that's the only rational/logical way to reject the idea.
And just so you know... The idea for ISPs to play copyright police is an American idea, bred by American companies and organizations. The RIAA has been pushing for it for years. The UK just jumped on board before the US ISPs did... | |
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Doctor Four
Re: Shilling Effect.
I may be out of touch on the movie making process. My understanding is that the majority of movies are made in house and often distributed by the studio or a subsidiary.
It's different than an artist who uses the studio's equipment, but writes and plays the music. Movies have one person write the script, the company composes and distributes the movie.
The cost of filming a movie vs performing an album is hugely different; unless you're Michael Jackson.
Hmmm. I'll have to give this some more thought. There's too many variables and too many stories I'm sure I haven't read yet.
Maybe I'll come to despise Big Film as well.
NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd. | |
guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
| reply to factchecker
Re: I'm proud to be an American
said by factchecker :
A rational person examines everything based on its merits, claims and the facts that support it and NEVER dismisses something off the cuff.
Any RIAA/MPAA, lies concerning piracy using the same tired old excuse of, we're going to the poor house, can be dismissed off the cuff.
RIAA/MPAA does not disclose information to support the claims they make. The bravo sierra these mega corps are blowing, MUST be dismissed off the cuff.
This breed of terrorists has yet to produce one shred of evidence to back up their claims of losing $$$$. Yeah poor old millionaires losing millions by leaching off the success of musicians.
One does not have to experience communism first hand to easily dismiss something off the cuff, same goes for Islam, satanism, liberalism, socialism, Scientology, fascism, bigger more intrusive government involvement to micro manage every aspect of ones life from cradle to grave.
quote:
To toss the red herring of patriotism and anti-Americanism in there only serves/snip.
For a person who is carrying Bush's tune in a bucket,(Junkmail) wants more NSA spying to protect Americans or rather corporate America's interests, claims to be conservative, wants MORE intrusive bigger government. Also claims Americans are not loosing any of our liberty or privacy rights to more intrusive, government activities conducted in secretive questionable methods.
It's ironic for one to say we are not losing our freedoms. Then acting as the main cheerleader for the U.S. to adopt policies of foreign countries. Perhaps the government is floating trial balloons here to see how it flies.
What it will boil down to is this: US Gov to ISPs: Stop Privacy By 2009, Or else. Suppose this becomes law. Then what does Or ELSE mean? Water boarding? Labeled internet music terrorists? Or else, OR ELSE F'N WHAT ?
A rational person, could see the fallacy of such faulty logic and where it is headed. Will one be subject to additional or amended foreign policy laws as well? If adopted we will have to play by a new set of rules?
Due to the patriot and national security act. Its now secretive what laws we must abide by. No one knows what they are until the government decides someone broke the law defined under those acts. Then to cheer lead, the U.S should adopt foreign policy of another country. Should send shivers down ones spine, because when adopted we will not be America anymore.
All it is is a power grab for power and control, until we the people are not citizens, but subjects. IMO, this has absolutely very little to do with music traders. Just a absolutely corrupt power grab. Compare it to a dog on a leash, who is at the mercy of the people holding its leash.
I couldn't give a rats azz if some foreigner in his own country had a brain fart of an idea. As an American. My first concern is America and fellow Americans, not some idiotic policy of a foreign country or some numbnuts farting out rational, logical enlightened brain farts of ideas. UNLESS some dimwit in Congress tries to make it an official policy here in the U.S.A
There are plenty of talented smart people right here in the U.S.A, screw some smart imbecile in another country.
FROCK this thread and topic, especially when the suggestion America implement a foreign countries policies as our own. That is a disgrace and shameful insult to members of the Armed Services who gave their life for the freedom American once offered. I can see it now before Bush leaves office.
Bush: due to the epidemic of illegal music trading. I declare a state of emergency, because file trading over the internet tube thangys caused a national disaster. Clearly its a threat to nationalwide security of epidemical proportions. I now declared marshalls law until farther notice. Congress has been disbanded. All these music swapping terrorists, must be dealth with swiftly.
--
It's easier to manipulate non-religious people, Ever hear of Communism?
With out religion your are more suceptable to manipulation. Look at china, they banned religion. It's much easier to manipulate people who don't have any religious convictions. | |
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