Re: Feel bad? in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20046669 en Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:59:47 EDT Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:59:47 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20046669 Thaler :
said by Lumberjack See Profile :

P2P was created not to share linux distributions, WoW patches or whatever else... it was created to share mp3s ripped from CDs.
Actually, the protocols they're going after (ie. BitTorrent) were created simply as a cheap means to distribute large files over the web - no specific purpose/reason was made or given. It was the pirates that jumped on this, feeling they were "untraceable" at the time, that made the protocol seem so closely tied with the technology.

Is piracy a greater volume of P2P traffic than legit users? Yes.

Does this mean that P2P = piracy? Absolutely not.

As I've said before, get the criminals off legit and legal protocol channels, not just criminalize the entire sect of the technology.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20046669 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 22:49:31 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20045275 NormanS :
said by Lumberjack See Profile :

So I'm not good with analogies... my point is, trying to defend P2P as a viable protocol for non-pirated content is somewhat pointless (even though you're correct). P2P was created not to share linux distributions, WoW patches or whatever else... it was created to share mp3s ripped from CDs.
That may be true for Napster, and its ilk, but that isn't the same as BitTorrent (AFAIK).

Oddly, I have only downloaded 46 mp3s that can be considered pirated, and I did not use any P2P for those, just HTTP. Pirated in the sense that the distributors were not authorized, that I know of. However, I know that the source albums are out of print, and I searched long and hard for used copies. I drew a blank. They are imports, and I'd probably have to haunt the used CD stores in Akihabara in hopes of finding them.
Technically though I still think it's a spammy protocol...
Not by any accurate definition of "spammy". Of course, we always play fast and loose with words in English, and many words have taken on meanings far from the original. "Hacker", "Pro Life", "Saturday Night Special", and "Assault Weapon" come to mind. They currently have an evil aura, and are used as catch words for ideologically charged arguments.
...and direct transfers or even mirror'd transfers are better. One connection, one stream is less "messy" for a network than hundreds of connections. Hell, that's probably more of an issue to providers than bandwidth... a lot harder for the feds to spy on that ;-).
If the "messiness" of distributed data transfer streams were a serious problem for the network, banning the protocol should be a top priority of the network managers.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20045275 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:14:15 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20044765 Lumberjack : Hardly any protocol is single usage. But I'd have to say it's almost fair to say that P2P is 1:1 with Piracy for most people that use P2P knowing it's actually P2P. And more than likely if you ask the general populous for a description of P2P they'd probably say "that's how I download my music and Heros episodes".

So I'm not good with analogies... my point is, trying to defend P2P as a viable protocol for non-pirated content is somewhat pointless (even though you're correct). P2P was created not to share linux distributions, WoW patches or whatever else... it was created to share mp3s ripped from CDs. And even if it's now used for legitimate things it still has and will always have that label.

Technically though I still think it's a spammy protocol and direct transfers or even mirror'd transfers are better. One connection, one stream is less "messy" for a network than hundreds of connections. Hell, that's probably more of an issue to providers than bandwidth... a lot harder for the feds to spy on that ;-).
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»www.fairtax.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20044765 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:47:24 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20043037 Thaler :
said by adam henry :

so in reality p2p does equal piracy you nitwit.
Wow...given all your good points and mountains of research, let me reply appropriately:



Nevermind, I guess the mods did it for me. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20043037 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:04:12 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20041957 anon : let me guess...you download linux distros and wow patches all the time right? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20041957 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:50:40 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20041216 Thaler :
said by Lumberjack See Profile :

Maybe if little Joey wasn't downloading the Foo Fighters greatest hits the WoW updater wouldn't suck so bad (if you play WoW you know it's not faster than a direct download).
Actually, I do play, and I get my downloads just fine off the Blizzard Downloader (if not faster than the mirroring FTP sites).

said by Lumberjack See Profile :

Trying to explain the piracy relationship P2P has by citing WoW and some video content is pretty weak. That's like saying the armed bank robber was ok in his actions because he didn't kill anybody.
I've never heard that comparison made. Usually the closest comparsion I've seen to criminalizing a protocol is the "banning roads due to escaping criminals". Granted the ratio of criminals : legal drivers is much different, but P2P's ratio would be much less as well if ISPs had been targeting the criminals themselves, rather than lump-sum an entire protocol's user base.

And pardon the earlier "not getting the sarcasm tags". If you read some of the posts made on these topics, you'll notice that there are some that give a 1:1 ratio of P2P users-to-pirates. :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20041216 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:26:13 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20041085 Lumberjack : Learn sarcasm ;-). I know there are other potential uses for P2P that are perfectly legal. I get along fine in the "computer world" and it's quite rare to see practical business use for P2P. You're counter-piracy examples are valid but you know they only account for a fraction of the "bad" stuff. Maybe if little Joey wasn't downloading the Foo Fighters greatest hits the WoW updater wouldn't suck so bad (if you play WoW you know it's not faster than a direct download).

Trying to explain the piracy relationship P2P has by citing WoW and some video content is pretty weak. That's like saying the armed bank robber was ok in his actions because he didn't kill anybody. The point is that P2P's user base that is mostly impacted by Comast's action are not the folks that are going to complain in a court of law... because they are in violation themselves. That doesn't mean I agree in any way with Comcast's practices but hey, somebody else might (where it counts) in a court of law.

The best resolution as I see it would just be to freaking hardware throttle the connections. Why in the hell the Sandvine product doesn't do this I don't know (or I've not read enough info on it). Symantec acquired a product a couple years ago that basically put suspected SPAM relays in a stone age ISDN quality connection. This way all the traffic gets threw just fine but at a highly reduced rate. Cuts down on bandwidth hogging but still allowing people to get whatever they want. Ahh the days of content filtering... but that assumes I'm familiar with the computer world ;-).
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»www.fairtax.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20041085 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:39:03 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20040441 NormanS :
said by quatrix See Profile :

The same goes for everyone badmouthing the RIAA just because they push for enforcement of laws that they broke.
The RIAA whines a lot because sales are off from what their predictions claim they should be.

I have not bought an RIAA property in...I don't know when. I have probably spent about $30 on RIAA properties in the last ten years.

I don't download .mp3 music files; especially not those belonging to members of the RIAA.

So I must be rich from all of the money I didn't spend on them, right?

I have nearly 9GB of .mp3 files on my HDD. Probably spent a couple of thousand dollars to get them. A lot of show tunes from 美少女戦士セーラームーン。 All but two are imports. A couple of sound track albums, and an image album from ああ!女神さま!. Also imported. Some tunes from the likes of Hisaishi Joe, Kanno Yoko, Nagata Shigeru, and Namba Hiroyuki. All of which cost about double what the RIAA charges. All of which are licensed by companies who would form the RIAJ (I believe there really is a similar organization in Japan).

I have no sympathy for the RIAA. They promote music which does not suit my taste; the Japanese do, so they get my money instead.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20040441 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:11:07 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20039451 Thaler :
said by Lumberjack See Profile :

That type of thinking is not permitted here. How dare you call out the thieves!

The reason Comcast will continually avoid this is because the people that are most affected by the "throttling" are the ones who aren't going to show up to court and say, "So I was downloading a movie that's not out yet and I had to wait two days instead of eight hours... that's not right".
Yes, because P2P = piracy. :uhh:

Its fair to assume you don't get out much in the computer world, do you?

I participate in legal use of P2P technologies, and I'd be well affected by Comcast's methods...if I used them, that is. However, I'm sure there are plenty of Comcast users playing games that're assisted via P2P: (World of Warcraft being a huge one here), folks that download P2P-distributed large media files (again, legal ones - I've downloaded freely-avaliable audio & video this way), most any Linux distro user, etc.

Let the suit go on. It'll be interesting to see how this breaks down in the courts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20039451 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:19:05 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20039211 gaforces : I have always been against stealing media, and I have frequently posted such on these very forums. Stealing is wrong, content creators need to be compensated for their good work.

Thanks for the RIAA opening :)

The RIAA are leeches trying to hold onto a failed business model. Bullying old ladies and children is not going to slow piracy one bit.

They can't handle their own job so they want to put it off on the rest of society so they can keep collecting those royalties.

Many large companys have embraced bit torrent since they went legit. Those companys pay for their internet connection, as do the users who want to have access to their content.
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~ Don't you ever give up, Don't ever give in. Were going to make it ~ Damian Marley]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20039211 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:39:10 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20037513 Lumberjack :
said by quatrix See Profile :

Are you complaining because you legitimately think they're doing something wrong or because you feel guilty for stealing and want to deflect the blame onto someone else? The same goes for everyone badmouthing the RIAA just because they push for enforcement of laws that they broke.
That type of thinking is not permitted here. How dare you call out the thieves!

The reason Comcast will continually avoid this is because the people that are most affected by the "throttling" are the ones who aren't going to show up to court and say, "So I was downloading a movie that's not out yet and I had to wait two days instead of eight hours... that's not right".

Though, who knows... some P2P crackhead is bound to do that one day for not getting his porn.
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»www.fairtax.org]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20037513 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:56:48 EDT Re: Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20037328 quatrix : Are you complaining because you legitimately think they're doing something wrong or because you feel guilty for stealing and want to deflect the blame onto someone else? The same goes for everyone badmouthing the RIAA just because they push for enforcement of laws that they broke.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20037328 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:28:05 EDT Feel bad? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20035841 gaforces : Why would you feel bad for a liar?
It has been demonstrated that they are forging the packets numerous times, and not just during heavy load.
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~ Don't you ever give up, Don't ever give in. Were going to make it ~ Damian Marley]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20035841 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:31:25 EDT