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BR1GAND

join:2007-01-13
Enterprise, AL

2 Gateways 2 ISPs 2 Routers 1 Network

Click for full size
After reading this post... »Re: Best Dual Wan Router
I tried to set up a similar configuration for my home network. Hopefully this will allow me to use both my internet connections, allow for file shareing and lan gaming between all computers, use of the network printer, and additionally have built in redundancy in case one of the connections goes down.

•Will setting up an alternative gateway on each comp provide internet redundancy?
•Will I still be able to receive and send email normally over the alternate gateway?
•I don't completely understand the opendns service. How might it help me with this setup?

BR1GAND

join:2007-01-13
Enterprise, AL

...thought by now someone would have commented on this plan... (/me looks at pende_tim and freezone)
I have yet to actually test it, thinking someone with more experiance with this kind of settup would easily see any obvious flaws in it. Hopefully the graphic is easy enough to decipher. Maybe I left out some important information.

All comps are running XP Pro, the IPs under each individual comp are their static IPs.


korstj

join:2000-08-26
San Diego, CA

I don't think Windows is smart enough to use a secondary gateway as a failover, in case the primary goes down. (In fact, I'm pretty sure of that, but don't quote me on it. I don't think I've tested it with 2 gateways in the same subnet.) You can easily test it by disconnecting one of them and testing a machine that uses it's IP as primary gateway. (ie, disconnect the Netopia and test one of the gateway #2 machines.)

If you want true failover capability, you'll need a true dual WAN router. (which the BEFSR41 is not.) But, your setup is proper for what you have. It's pretty simple matter to change the last octet of the gateway in machines, in case of an outage on one of the connections.



Gmoney
Premium
join:2006-05-18
Denver, CO
reply to BR1GAND

to really do this properly you need to buy a load balencing router.


BR1GAND

join:2007-01-13
Enterprise, AL
reply to BR1GAND

If I put 2 default gateways in the TCP/IP advance settings, doesnt it prioritize gateways by order of listing? And if the first one listed goes down, wouldn't XP use the 2nd?

As far as a duel`wan router goes... I have done quite a bit of research on these and from Ive read (both on these forums and many other places) is that these devices on the lower pricing end are not very reliable and in order to get that kind of reliability prices start at around $200 and rise sharply. If it is possible to use both connection on one network for free... well I like the price .

Because my family is constantly using my current setup I have yet to try this. Hopefully I can set this all up tomorrow night and I'll report back what I've found.



Gmoney
Premium
join:2006-05-18
Denver, CO
reply to BR1GAND

you can do it the way that you want to. windows will only use the 2nd one if it cannot find the first one but will not load balance.


BR1GAND

join:2007-01-13
Enterprise, AL
reply to BR1GAND

Great thx! True load balancing would be nice, but just being able to access the 2 ISPs from 1 network is the goal, that I might have some redundancy is an extra bonus.


BR1GAND

join:2007-01-13
Enterprise, AL
reply to BR1GAND

Ok, got this all set up last night and it seems to work fine. I tested 1 computer for redundancy, this computer had the netopia router/modem as its primary gateway and the linksys router as its 2nd gateway. Using »www.whatismyip.com to confirm which gateway was being used. I then took the netopia offline and refreshed the webpage and it took about 30 secs for XP to switch to the other gateway.

I havent tested this redundancy on all the comps yet or if the netopia(dsl) picks up if the linksys(cable) goes down. I foresee a problem there, as all computers are relying on the linksys as a switch too. If it goes down or resets it might not pass thru to the netopia for a while (or at all).



DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
kudos:2
reply to BR1GAND

1 word. PfSence



winxpert

@mindspring.com
reply to BR1GAND

Windows is not able to prioritize the gateway ip according to your request. It means that if you have two gateway IPs in TCP/IP protocol, and 1st gateway goes off, it goes to the second gateway FOREVER until the second gateway goes off. Then it will change it back to use the 1st gateway.

If you have two internet connections, you must get a dual wan router. You can go for free which is pfsense unix based firewall router. All you need is a PC equipped with 3+N NICs (2 for WAN, 1 for LAN) + DMZ.


BR1GAND

join:2007-01-13
Enterprise, AL

said by winxpert :

Windows is not able to prioritize the gateway ip according to your request. It means that if you have two gateway IPs in TCP/IP protocol, and 1st gateway goes off, it goes to the second gateway FOREVER until the second gateway goes off. Then it will change it back to use the 1st gateway.

If you have two internet connections, you must get a dual wan router. You can go for free which is pfsense unix based firewall router. All you need is a PC equipped with 3+N NICs (2 for WAN, 1 for LAN) + DMZ.
Winxpert, Im sure you mean well, but this configuration actually works quite well for my needs. From my perspective this kind of fail over is adequate. Your FOREVER is only a minor inconvenience for me. Primarily my network is used for online gaming and if my cable goes down only to have my dsl pick up the connection until I either restart the computer or reset the connections... thats ok.

I originally planned on a Linux solution, just like you mentioned, but then I would have to dabble in that OS (which I really dont want to do), and dedicate one of my comps to that purpose. Again, there would be the cost of the nics (admittedly less cost then a good dual wan router) added to the headache of setting it up.

Overall I just wanted to be able to have 2 working connections on one network and be able to file/printer share on that network. That there is some fail-over between the 2 connections, while not ideal, is at least satisfactory given the cost.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:4

1 recommendation

Yes this is doable with two routers, what I call a poor mans solution.

For those with the luxury of two ISP connections, (hopefully from different sources and thus having redundancy) the following is provided as a "low cost" method of sharing the connections and providing one LAN (an alternative to purchasing a dual or multi-wan router).

1. Decide on which Router is going to be your PRIMARY/Master Router - which will be used for routing functions including DHCP serving. Typically the more stable, firmware featured and higher throughput unit is chosen as the Primary Router.
You will need to note the Primary Routers' LANIP structure, including the DYNAMIC DHCP Pool it assigns, its own LANIP, and its subnet mask. One does not have to make any changes to this router unless, as per the example below, you wish to adjust its Dynamic DHCP pool range.

2. The other (Slave) router will maintain its Internet ISP connection as per normal. However, this router will NOT be DHCP serving and the following changes will need to be made:
a. Turn "DHCP OFF",
b. MANUALLY ASSIGN A LANIP WITHIN THE SUBNET OF THE Primary Router but outside the Primary Routers' DHCP pool.
c. MANUALLY ASSIGN SUBNET MASK TO MATCH Primary Router, and
d. RIP/UPNP should be turned off.

3. Physically connect each router together via ethernet, LAN port to LAN port (single cable path not critical, ie can be through a switch/patch panel etc).

4. One now has both routers setup to provide internet connectivity to PCs attached to either router. How the PCs are setup (internet connection properties via the Operating System) will determine which router they will get their internet from. In other words, to which router they are physically 'cable-connected', does NOT determine the ISP being used (WAN input).

5. Setting up the PCs is required and may be accomplished as follows:

a. PRIMARY ROUTER - If you want your PCs to get their internet from this router, simply setup your PCs/Laptops etc to get their connection AUTOMATICALLY (as most NIC Cards are defaulted to do).

b. SECONDARY ROUTER - If you want your PCs to get their internet from the slave router, you will have to MANUALLY ASSIGN their associated NIC Cards (internet connection properties) with the necessary parameters as follows:

i. A LANIP within the subnet of the PRIMARY ROUTER but outside the Primary Routers' dynamic dhcp pool,
ii. A subnet mask to match that of the Rrimary Router, and
(i and ii to be on the same LAN)
iii. The GATEWAY will be the LANIP of the Secondary/Slaver router.

6. Now one should have all their PCs up and running and communicating with ISPs corresponding to the respective NIC Card user directed setup parameters (Local Area Connection Properties/Internet Protocol TCP/IP Properties). Most importantly, all PCs are on one big happy LAN.

****Be advised that ONE CAN ONLY FORWARD PORTS from the PRIMARY/Master router.

7. Depending upon the Routers' firmware capabilities, and assuming one is using separately sourced ISPs, either ISP can provide service for all PCs, in the event that the other ISP service is not available.
Two methods are most likely:

a. Automatic - Some routers (zyxel with zynos firmware) have the firmware option called "TRAFFIC REDIRECT" or something similar which allows the user to state a backup Gateway for the PCs to connect through.

b. Manual - Admin will have to enter in the Local Connection Properties/Internet Protocol Properties of non-internet capable PCs and make the necessary changes depending upon which Router is still getting ISP traffic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example of two WANS and two routers setup:

PRIMARY/Master Router
LAN IP 192.168.1.1
old Dynamic DHCP Pool 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.xx
subnet mask 255.255.255.0

Will need to change Dynamic DHCP pool
new DCHP Pool 192.168.1.33 - 192.168.1.xx (for example)
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0

SECONDARY/Slave Router
old LAN IP 192.168.0.1 -or any other default

Will need to change secondary router LAN IP to be within subnet of primary.
new LAN IP 192.168.1.2 (note now outside DHCP pool of primary)
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0

PCs that User wants to connect to PRIMARY Router ISP:
Go to Local Area Connection Properties/Internet Protocol Properties (TCP/IP) and ensure the following is selected;
-Obtain IP Address Automatically,
-Obtain DNS Servers Automatically.

PCs that User wants to connect to SECONDARY Router ISP:
Go to Local Area Connection Properties/Internet Protocol Properties (TCP/IP) and input the following;
-Manually Assign Gateway as 192.168.1.2
-Manually Assign subnet mask 255.255.255.0
-Manualy Assign LANIP as follows:
PC A-192.168.1.3
PC B-192.168.1.4
PC C-192.168.1.5 etc etc...

Good luck!
--
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment

ClearToLand

join:2002-12-20
South Plainfield, NJ
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

1 recommendation

One Can Only FORWARD PORTS from the PRIMARY/Master router?

said by Anav:

...****Be advised that ONE CAN ONLY FORWARD PORTS from the PRIMARY/Master router...
I've been running with two ISPs and two routers (Primary=Cable, Secondary=DSL) for several months now in a setup similar to what Anav described. Since I use Port Forwarding, I take issue with the quoted statement above - IMHO, it's *WAY* too vague.

IME, Port Forwarding will work properly on EITHER ISP / Router, but the DESTINATION PC must be hard-coded to the appropriate gateway (no DHCP, no setting up multiple gatways with metrics and allowing the OS to switch) and the PORT cannot be duplicated (i.e. if you use 29000 on ISP #1, you can't use it on ISP #2).

I run 2 of my ReplayTVs on my 2nd ISP (DSL - Daily TV Guides) and am running experiments with the 3rd (using a helper app on a PC - IVSmagic) on my 1st ISP (Cable - Daily TV Guides *AND* Show Transfers).
--
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:4

Thanks for the clarification.
I thought with DHCP turned off on the secondary router, it would not be able to route or port forward.

So your saying that the secondary router can still port forward to PCs that are statically assigned to its gateway???
Kewl!
(with single port limitation as per usual for one LAN).
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


BR1GAND

join:2007-01-13
Enterprise, AL
reply to BR1GAND

Re: 2 Gateways 2 ISPs 2 Routers 1 Network

Just a follow up on this setup.

Its been working great for me for the last several months. The main drawback is when one of the connections goes down it takes a bit of time for the 2nd gateway to kick in (about 2 mins). I found a nice program that lets me switch gateways on the fly and highly recommend it for someone using a similar set up.

»www.eusing.com/ipswitch/free_ip_switcher.htm

This program is also great for those who switch from home to office or use many alternate connection settings.



Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:4

Depends on the routers, as I noted some have the capability to do this switching within the feature set, for example on zyxel routers with zynos firmware its called TRAFFIC REDIRECT and allows the user to state an alternative Backup Gateway IP address.