sup191
join:2008-02-24
Milwaukee, WI
| reply to MacLeech
Re: [TWC] Throttling in Milwaukee?
said by MacLeech  :try 209.244.0.3 and 209.244.0.4 Better than the ones that OpenDNS lists, but still slower than the ones I have been using. |
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tattoohead
join:2008-03-03
Kenosha, WI | reply to MacLeech
What if you use different ports? I doubt they would throttle a gaming port, for instance. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| said by tattoohead :What if you use different ports? I doubt they would throttle a gaming port, for instance. They don't throttle based on ports. It's based on packet "signatures". |
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tattoohead
join:2008-03-03
Kenosha, WI | What about encryption? There's gotta be someway around it. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| said by tattoohead :What about encryption? There's gotta be someway around it. Sure you can use encryption, but torrents have a definite signature when using network resources that can't be hidden.
There are very few protocols that make a "swarm" of connections in such a way and encryption doesn't hide that...
Imagine that cold medication commercial showing the rhino with the sheet thrown on top.... that's the affect of encrypting torrent traffic. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
1 edit | said by MacLeech :Imagine that cold medication commercial showing the rhino with the sheet thrown on top.... that's the affect of encrypting torrent traffic. Good visual! But these DPI boxes aren't as heuristic as human beings are -- so the sheet might fool them -- perhaps not at all, perhaps for a little while, or perhaps completely.
The thing with DPI and pattern matching, is that the patterns have to match or they not match. It is only as good as its signature file.
True case in point:
The DPI device installed in Comcast-land has a couple of quirks. Encryption definitely helps as the handshake pattern Comcast looks for has an extra exchange -- it's enough to keep Comcast from killing the connection during the handshake and the users make it into BitTorrent's file-transfer mode. Eventually, Sandvine acts exactly as you described and detects it despite the encryption, but you do get about 30+ seconds of useful data upload before Sandvine catches on. That's 30 seconds you only get if you use encryption.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. |
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ggoldfingerd
@rr.com
| reply to sup191
My connection seems to be throttled as well. I live in the Milwaukee area and just had my internet installed 1 week ago. My speeds tests last week showed 14000/1000, but now I am getting 5000/1000. I have been doing some heavy downloading with torrents. Mostly Linux files. At first with utorrent, I was getting speeds around 1.5mbps, now I max out around 100-200kbps. This has been happening for a few days now. I will retest my connection tomorrow, but speedtest.net shows my connection is down to 1/3 of what it was. Im not to worried about torrents, but I expect my speed test to be close to 15/1.
Anyway, Im just glad I have a new modem. My friend had an old Motorola cable modem and that thing would disconnect every 5 minutes when downloading over RR. My girlfriend also had the same modem and it would do the same thing. They are controlling the connections. They need to list this in the contact, because I pay for 15/1, I expect this connection speed unless they state otherwise. |
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chad17
@rr.com | reply to sup191
I'm in West Allis and I'm finding that when I bittorrent, I have to cap my downloads at 200k if I let it run overnight, or I wake up and have to reset my modem. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| said by chad17 :
I'm in West Allis and I'm finding that when I bittorrent, I have to cap my downloads at 200k if I let it run overnight, or I wake up and have to reset my modem.
More then likely that's the modem locking up or maybe your router.... throttling is done elsewhere and won't cause your modem to need a reboot. |
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rocksolidit
join:2008-03-09
Milwaukee, WI | ok...I changed the firmware in my router from DD-WRT to Tomato..I'll see what happens.
(I registered...I post earlier as chad17) |
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mooosenix
join:2004-01-09
Milwaukee, WI
| reply to chad17
said by ggoldfingerd :
Anyway, Im just glad I have a new modem. My friend had an old Motorola cable modem and that thing would disconnect every 5 minutes when downloading over RR. My girlfriend also had the same modem and it would do the same thing. They are controlling the connections. They need to list this in the contact, because I pay for 15/1, I expect this connection speed unless they state otherwise. said by chad17 :
I'm in West Allis and I'm finding that when I bittorrent, I have to cap my downloads at 200k if I let it run overnight, or I wake up and have to reset my modem.
Strangely enough, I've been seeing this issue as of the last couple of months. I also swapped out my router and it appears to be the modem, or something else.
I'm seeing it with heavy downloading of "normal" things (SCP and HTTP).
Seriously, what's the point of Turbo if you can't use it without your entire connection locking up?
Blah. |
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alexfalkenberg
@rr.com
| reply to sup191
I'd really appreciate it if any Milwaukee-area TW/RR users (or any other TW/RR users elsewhere, if you're having the same problems) would read about my issues with them here, in a lot greater detail:
»alexfalkenberg.com
and drop a comment; I'd like to collect as many data points as I can.
I'm tired of the BS of my cable modem constantly rebooting. I've been paying for their "premium" service for a long time, and getting no real use out of it. I snag a couple of TV shows here and there via BT, but that's really it. Linux ISOs here and there, too, and some audio/video streaming, some remote-desktop stuff, and moving pictures around online. Nothing I'd personally call excessive; the connection's supposed to be used, isn't it?
Happens with wget/http. Happens with bittorrent. Happens with ftp/scp. Consistently, any sustained download trips my stuff up so badly that I'm forced to reset -everything-. Multiple times an hour. Sometimes _dozens_ of times an hour (sometimes every 1-2 minutes).
If all I'm doing is uploading, that often seems fine, but I still get random disconnects when there's nothing in particular going on.
I can't rely on my Vonage line to make/take phone calls. I can't reliably get downloadable Tivo content or guide data. I can't count on getting Windows updates, Linux updates, OSX updates... I can't do any remote-support work. Can't listen to podcasts or watch vidcasts. I'm sometimes be forced to relogin to ssh sessions dozens of times in a day. Online gaming? Forget about it!
You name it, connection-wise, and it usually sucks.
It's been going on a long time. Everyone I've talked to (including 2nd and 3rd tier) denies there's any flagging or throttling, and they've really gone out of their way in the past to blame everything but themselves for the problems...if/when I can get anyone at Time-Warner Milwaukee to reply at all in the first place. (I can't.)
I have gotten tired of explaining the problem over and over and over again to first-level CS people. Techs to the house...are a joke. I've done plenty of pointless tests, logging, cablemodem swaps, spent time on the phone, written letters, and.... nothing. I've had a bright orange cable line across my lawn for more than a YEAR now when they spent hours here replacing everything all the way out to the pole (with no improvement).
The problem seemed to start in Dec 2006 (yes, 2006) when we got voluntarily bumped up to 8MBps "Turbo" service for an extra five bucks/month.
The problem seemed to go away last year finally around the time we got bumped up to 15MBps speeds.
The problem seems to have returned about 3-4 weeks ago now, and I've not identified any causes/changes. I know we're also lucky to see 10MBps down for a few minutes at a time, if that, when the connection IS working and the cable modem's not constantly rebooting.
Bottom line: the problem is not in my house, period.
If they're messing with my connection, or if I'm somehow abusing their mysterious (and apparently ridiculous) limits, then just TELL me. I'm an adult. Give me the chance to drop the service and end a relationship they've apparently ALREADY decided isn't working out for THEM, instead of, well, plainly and deliberately _stealing_ from me, taking money for service I'm paying for and not getting.
Messing with my connection is effectively ending our business relationship. And then continuing to pocket my money is somehow OK? No!
They've cost me a TON of money in wasted time alone...and it's gotta stop.
Thanks for reading along and any assistance.
-agf |
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georgeu
join:2001-08-06
Racine, WI
| reply to sup191
Have you thought about moving to the business class side of the house? I used to have turbo but when they came out with the home business product I moved to it, you get a business SLA and 24/7 business tech support. I live in Racine and pay around $63 a month for 2megs up and 15 down, works like a champ. . .
I still have digital phone running on the residential modem, but got a new one for the business class (SB5100). Everything seems to work well. |
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mooosenix
join:2004-01-09
Milwaukee, WI | reply to sup191
Connection just cut out twice playing TF2 and listening to a shoutcast stream.
This has gotta stop.... |
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Xizer
join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
1 edit | reply to sup191
All I have to say is: It sucks to be you guys.
I am experiencing zero of these problems, and I get turbo service for $40 a month. I almost always get my full connection speed off of Time Warner's Usenet service.
During online games I don't experience any problems and my ping is always less than 50. Yeah, that includes Team Fortress 2.
I can also download and upload hundreds of gigabytes every month without getting "flagged."
Maybe it's your cable modem? They gave me a garbage SB4200 when I signed up for service. I quickly replaced that with an SB5120. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to alexfalkenberg
said by alexfalkenberg :
I'm tired of the BS of my cable modem constantly rebooting... I responded on his blog with the following...
Alex,
Your modem is rebooting. That nearly eliminates purposeful ISP throttling as a cause as many DOCSIS modems cannot be rebooted from the headend. This is why most ISPs tell you to reboot your router when a network upgrade happens so that it can phone home and download and apply its new config file.
Now -- I'm the guy holding Comcast's feet to the fire for throttling. So if I thought it was TWC + throttling, I'd certainly tell you.
It still is TWC who owns everything from your rented modem up to the node at the CMTS. If the cablemodem loses contact with the headend, a "watchdog" function in the modem will cause it to reboot in hopes to reestablish communications. There are several reasons that can happen -- 99% of those reasons are TWC issues. The modem normally won't reboot if it loses connectivity with your router or computer -- so if the modem is rebooting, it's because of an issue on the DOCSIS side.
That said, there are some "you" things you can check -- is the AC supply a clean one? Have you added any cables or splitters that might weaken the signal? Do your cables run near any electrically "noisy" sources that might dampen the modem's link to the headend -- such as an electric baseboard heater?
Thanks for letting me visit your blog. I might be back to your blog from time to time, but I read DSLReports every day or two. If there is anything I can do to help, please contact me on DSLReports.
--Robb (aka funchords)
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
3 edits | said by funchords :Your modem is rebooting. That nearly eliminates purposeful ISP throttling as a cause as many DOCSIS modems cannot be rebooted from the headend. This is why most ISPs tell you to reboot your router when a network upgrade happens so that it can phone home and download and apply its new config file. The cable company can ALWAYS reboot your modem remotely, either through SNMP command to the modem, CMTS command, or physically turning off the signal to/from the modems forcing a reboot to reaquire the signal.
Why the ISP doesn't use it is often because they want to roll out an upgrade slowly over the course of days or weeks. Usually to ease into the change so resources aren't suddenly slammed with demand from one thing or another (i.e. hundreds or thousands of modems all trying to aquire IPs or use 3 extra mbit of bandwidth each or customers calling when something fails).
ISPs don't use modem resets to purposely throttle connections though, it's not exactly resource friendly. It'd be akin to controlling your kids TV watching by flipping the TV on and off while they're watching it, what's the point when there are much easier and less disruptive ways. |
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mooosenix
join:2004-01-09
Milwaukee, WI
1 edit | reply to funchords
said by funchords :said by alexfalkenberg :
I'm tired of the BS of my cable modem constantly rebooting... I responded on his blog with the following...Alex, Your modem is rebooting. That nearly eliminates purposeful ISP throttling as a cause as many DOCSIS modems cannot be rebooted from the headend. This is why most ISPs tell you to reboot your router when a network upgrade happens so that it can phone home and download and apply its new config file. Mine is not rebooting.
The modem "config" page is still accessable, and all the lights are still on with the activity light happily blinking away. However, any outbound traffic will fail to
reach its destination.
In addition, there are no new logs on the modem config page after this happens. If the modem would have rebooted, it would have some logs about the startup process, right?
Sometimes the connection will restore itself after ~30 seconds or so by itself without a reboot. However, most of the time I have to manually restart the modem.
Just for kicks, I'll probably have my modem swapped out in hope that's the problem, but I doubt it. |
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| reply to MacLeech
said by MacLeech :The cable company can ALWAYS reboot your modem remotely, either through SNMP command to the modem, CMTS command, or physically turning off the signal to/from the modems forcing a reboot to reaquire the signal. Right. But only the last one is sure to work, and the last one affects everyone on that frequency -- so it wouldn't be a good way to perform throttling.
If challenged, I couldn't tell you which modems respond to an SNMP command to restart or if there are different "deepnesses" of restart. And I don't know if you can reboot a modem from the CMTS outside of SNMP or interrupting the signal to a whole group. However, none of that applies to this guy's problem.
Good metaphor about the TV & kids.  I found that Nyquil worked wonders. 
PS: to answer your next question -- both.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- Hillsboro, Oregon
"We don't throttle any traffic," -Charlie Douglas, Comcast spokesman, on this report. |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
3 edits | reply to mooosenix
said by mooosenix :The modem "config" page is still accessable, and all the lights are still on with the activity light happily blinking away. However, any outbound traffic will fail to reach its destination. How are the modem signal levels during all of this?
Are they stable or does the SNR or Tx level fluctuate more than 1-2 dB?
Is there packet loss during this time?
Can you ping your gateway IP during these times?
Can you ping 192.168.100.1 during these times?
Can you ping 127.0.0.1 during these times?
.
It sounds like a return signal issue from the symptoms listed so far, possibly caused by noise, CPD, transient hum modulation, or return signal reflections... none of which phone support or the techs field techs assigned to service calls can see very well, if at all. Maintenance/line techs can see some or all of it depending on the training and/or tools they have access to. The return issues can cause intermittent upstream interruptions without causing the modem to reset. |
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