openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | reply to qworster
Re: when was the last increase? said by qworster:And PLEEAZE, don't trot out that overused excuse that the indys could put up their own fiber if they wanted to. Ok, how about I trot out the "it's a cost of doing business and if the indies can't afford to play and continue providing a value-added service, then maybe they shouldn't be playing" valid logic. Or better yet, maybe the indies should do what they "should" be doing and innovate and drive new technology instead of leaching off of their competitors' infrastructures. |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to Corona
said by Corona:Not a one of them did that, and that is why, subsequently it was gutted. Revisionist history. Many of them were doing that, but then the rug was yanked out from under them and the rules changed. As a result, almost all of them have gone bankrupt or were bought up for pennies on the dollar by the incumbents.
If we had stayed the course on TA1996, we'd of been quite a bit closer to the Japanese model now, with many more choices.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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| No we wouldn't have. Few of them did anything beyond falling into a comfortable rut of low expenses and high return. Then when the telecom market fell out from the internet bubble bursting a lot of poor planning on their part caused them to fold. |
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| reply to KrK
said by KrK:said by Corona:Not a one of them did that, and that is why, subsequently it was gutted. Revisionist history. Many of them were doing that, but then the rug was yanked out from under them and the rules changed. As a result, almost all of them have gone bankrupt or were bought up for pennies on the dollar by the incumbents. If we had stayed the course on TA1996, we'd of been quite a bit closer to the Japanese model now, with many more choices. Name several CLECs that were building their own networks. I know MCI wasn't. In fact, except a few local players that were aimed at business were, no one I know was. So, provide some examples? IDC sure wasn't. Even VZ tried to leech off of Bellsouth in S.Florida by reselling lines.
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
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NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| reply to qworster
said by qworster:Cmon! Their copper is DECADES old! THAT excuse holds about a mm of water! Not around here. They replaced my drop when we had problems on the voice line. More recently, they replaced the F2 from the cross-connect box. I'd say the copper around here is more like mere months old. I'd also say that is probably true for most of the locales where AT&T is rolling out Uverse.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum |
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 SplitpairPremium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
kudos:3 | reply to qworster
said by qworster:Generally they replace these with 28 guage pairs that are less than a quarter of the size (and weight) of the old cables. Really 28 gauge copper? Oh crap we have been wrecking the old 26 gauge plant and installing 24 gauge for bonded ADSL and now (thanks to you) I find out we are going to need to rip out all that lower loss 24 gauge and replace it with real high loss 28 gauge. Damm now we're back to the beginning.
Wayne
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Yeah, there's a storm on the loose, sirens in my head
Wrapped up in silence, all circuits are dead
Cannot decode - my whole life spins into a frenzy
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SplitpairPremium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
kudos:3 | reply to en102
said by en102:28 guage wire is what is inside the house, if I'm not mistaken. AT&T rewired my block about a year and a half ago, after there was an issue with SoCal Edison's line burning up the AT&T lines. They replaced 18 gauge with 16. Now I'm real confused way too many numbers. They replaced 18 gauge with 16 gauge? WTF? Do the porch lights come on in Canada when you go off-hook or something?
Wayne
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Yeah, there's a storm on the loose, sirens in my head
Wrapped up in silence, all circuits are dead
Cannot decode - my whole life spins into a frenzy
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 en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | I'm in Los Angeles, and all the wire is buried.
SCE's 16kV line shorted and burned/melted up a block worth of AT&T 18 guage wire, blew out manhole covers and caught my nieghbors tree on fire. It melted the 18 guage POTS wire to the ground at my house, and charred the insulation a little.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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SplitpairPremium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne
kudos:3
1 edit | reply to en102
said by en102:28 guage wire is what is inside the house, if I'm not mistaken. The closest to 28 I have ever seen was the 70’s copper shortage 26 gauge quad IW and the real early two and five pair lead jacketed buried service wire.
Don’t have any quad on hand but you can see the thinness (I snapped the conductor trying to remove the rubber insulation) of the conductors in the old lead jacketed BSW. With 28 gauge it would be almost impossible to work with and it’s why as time moved on we went from to 6 gauge hard drawn copper on open insulators to as small as they could work with copper (26) and now back to a larger gauge to support data. And then there's glass.
Wayne
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Yeah, there's a storm on the loose, sirens in my head
Wrapped up in silence, all circuits are dead
Cannot decode - my whole life spins into a frenzy
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en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | The stuff that's in the walls in 'hair' thin, and a lot of the stuff that comes 'to the house' is almost as thick as the stuff in RG59U, just twisted, not shielded.
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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 PiggieI Actually use WindstreamPremium
join:2005-11-23
Orange Springs, FL | said by en102:The stuff that's in the walls in 'hair' thin, and a lot of the stuff that comes 'to the house' is almost as thick as the stuff in RG59U, just twisted, not shielded. 26 is about as "hair thin" as you can twist around a screw terminal in the house or hold in a punch down block. I have wired a lot of studio's for audio.
Now if you want to build a mainframe with heavy duty wire you use 28 gauge wire wrap wire. But 30 gauge will do just fine and if there are a lot of wires per post 30 is easier to work with wire wrapping.
But since we don't wire wrap houses, I would be shocked to find you have anything smaller than 26 for inside wiring. If you do, then someone was getting too cheap and good luck in the future.
With 16 gauge for DSL you could power a 12KHz porch light and have Attn values still around 2. No they don't use 16 gauge for phone unless it's self installed.
One time I have seen it. A friend of mine had a barn and put in his own cable. It was 500 ft from house and he was an "efficiency nut" and did run 14 gauge to the barn. I told him it was over kill but he didn't understand phone circuits either.
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| Speedstream 4200 Modem - 3m/384 plan | W98-W2KSP4-XPSP2 - All AMD | Buffalo WHR G54S with Tomato 1.13 | 3 downstream switches feeding 6 total clients (no wireless) | Including the Data port on the side of my neck | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| reply to supergirl
Companies like (and not limited too)
Allegiance
CTC
Choice One
Focal
Mpower
Net2000
NetworkPlus
USLEC
FiberNet
McLeodUSA
Metromedia Fiber
XO Communications
Teligent
Windstar
Covad
Network Access Solutions
Rythms
Williams Communications
etc etc
(Note some of these are still in business, but are still examples of CLEC's who were building out infrastructure...)
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
1 edit | reply to Piggie
The 26 guage stuff is indoors... a few flexes on it, and it'll break. The house was built in 1970, so its nothing 'new', and there's a few pair that run through the entire house.
Interesting part is that I do get decent signal.
Provisioning Option CO
CO Distance 010.214KFT
1. Downstream Upstream
2. SNR Margin (dB): 16.2 16.0
3. Attenuation (dB): 47.0 30.0
4. Output Power (dBm): 17.1 9.9
5. Attainable Rate (Kbps): 6080 1000
6. Rate (Kbps): 3008 512
7. K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 95 17
8. R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 0 0
9. S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 1 1
10. D (interleaver depth): 0 0
11. Delay (msec): 0 0
12.
13. Super Frames: 605752 605750
14. Super Frame Errors: 291 4
15. RS Words: 0 0
16. RS Correctable Errors: 0 0
17. RS Uncorrectable Errors: 0 N/A
18.
19. HEC Errors: 123 0
20. OCD Errors: 0 0
21. LCD Errors: 0 0
22. Total Cells: 73056081 0
23. Data Cells: 5585872 0
24. Bit Errors: 0 0
25.
26. Total ES: 364 0
27. Total SES: 67 0
28. Total UAS: 25 0
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Canada = Hollywood North |
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| reply to Splitpair
Isn't the reason you run the drop downhill (pole to house) so that you can maintain transmission speeds?
Then you try to hit the side of the house rather than the back with a 90 degree turn at the corner of the roof because you don't want the data/voice/telly pictures to burst out the thin insulation where it bends?
Both good practices so you can make the cables smaller and smaller without having to lose speeds.
I'm going to study cable next semester.  |
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| reply to KrK
said by KrK:Companies like (and not limited too) Allegiance CTC Choice One Focal Mpower Net2000 NetworkPlus USLEC FiberNet McLeodUSA Metromedia Fiber XO Communications Teligent Windstar Covad Network Access Solutions Rythms Williams Communications etc etc (Note some of these are still in business, but are still examples of CLEC's who were building out infrastructure...) Heard of XO and Covad. Any links to this?
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Saving the world keeps me busy. However, I find Earth very primitive from my home planet of Krypton.
-Supergirl |
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