Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| the real reason this is one of the real reasons the incumbents have for resisting dissemination of deployment information.
if you don't know where they've deployed service, it's harder to tell if they are redlining or not meeting the deployment terms of agreements.
the other unstated reason, of course, is so the govt and public can't see how widespread broadband "black holes" are and how the big incumbents don't compete against each other in most areas. |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by nasadude:this is one of the real reasons the incumbents have for resisting dissemination of deployment information. How are they resisting? At least in Verizon's case they let you enter your address into their website and you can check if you can get DSL or FIOS at a particular location.
»www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm
»www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp
You can also call Comcast and ask if they provide broadband (or other services) to a particular address. This was particularly handy when I was house-hunting 2 year ago.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assert that other incumbent providers have means of contacting them to verify availability of service at a given location. This pretty much proves that incumbents have this information and are willing to share it with people.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| said by pnh102:.... This pretty much proves that incumbents have this information and are willing to share it with people. they are only willing to share with people that call and ask if service is available at a specific location.
so I guess, yeah, if someone wants to create a comcast service map, they can call comcast and ask for every address in an area. That's a lotta dam calls.
the point I'm making is they WON'T allow the release of information to the extent that say a municipal planner could see where service is available and where it isn't, so they could like, plan. the incumbents have also lobbied against bills requiring them to provide this information.
the stated reason that this is "proprietary" and business confidential information is a bunch of crap and a smokescreen.
the sole reason for resisting the release of this information is to hide the true picture of broadband deployment (or non-deployment) in the U.S. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by nasadude:so I guess, yeah, if someone wants to create a comcast service map, they can call comcast and ask for every address in an area. That's a lotta dam calls. So what if it is? If someone is that interested, let them expend the effort to make it happen. Since just about everyone else can find out if a particular location is serviceable, I don't see any major problem with the current setup.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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 DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | reply to pnh102
And in my case I'm serviceable when the VZ website says I'm not.
Verizon and other providers are always bragging in annual reports about how many homes they're passing and how many customers they service. |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102:.. I don't see any major problem with the current setup. Apparently, you don't see any major problem with the lack of competition of our current setup either.
The whole idea behind getting deployment information is to enable cities, counties, states to evaluate broadband deployment in their area and come up with a plan to ensure coverage if it is inadequate (which it is in many places).
of course, the nation doesn't have a broadband plan and won't anytime soon, but that doesn't mean states and counties should stick their head up their @ss like the federal govt and leave everything up to the incumbents. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by nasadude:Apparently, you don't see any major problem with the lack of competition of our current setup either. Not really no. I just verified that broadband was available where I was going to live and moved accordingly.
said by nasadude:The whole idea behind getting deployment information ... We have proven irrefutably that this information is already available. Anyone who wants it can get it. Just because people are too lazy to get this information doesn't mean we need an act of Congress to force these companies to give us nice warm fuzzy copies of what is otherwise already available.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| well, no surprise about your lack of concern regarding broadband competition.
although to some degree I can agree with your position, I disagree with your premise that this information is "irrefutably" available via the manner in which we are discussing; that is, I suspect calling comcast about every address in a municipality would not yield the most accurate picture. Sometimes one does not find out if service is really available until an actual order is placed; we all know CSRs often don't have the best or latest information.
why should a local government have to do this? Why won't comcast or whomever, provide this information, especially if whoever is requesting it provides payment for the trouble?
THERE IS NO REASON FOR THEM TO REFUSE TO PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION UNLESS THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE!
and what they have to hide is the sorry state of broadband coverage and lack of competition in the U.S. The free market, deregulatory regime we currently have IS A FAILURE. From 1st to 15th in less than 10 years - doesn't sound like a success story to me.
If the true picture of broadband in the U.S. were shown, the FCC and industry would be unable to claim "vigorous competition" without getting laughed at. |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by nasadude:well, no surprise about your lack of concern regarding broadband competition. Well this problem doesn't concern me in the least. If I was stupid enough to not verify broadband availability before I moved, and then found I could not get broadband, that would be my fault, not some incumbent's fault.
said by nasadude:I disagree with your premise that this information is "irrefutably" available via the manner in which we are discussing; You can disagree but you are still incorrect. The information is freely available.
said by nasadude:... that is, I suspect calling comcast about every address in a municipality would not yield the most accurate picture. And a government mandate for them to make a shiny, documented picture would? I'll agree that no system is perfect, but for most people, it works fine as it is now.
said by nasadude:Sometimes one does not find out if service is really available until an actual order is placed; we all know CSRs often don't have the best or latest information. What is to stop an incumbent from providing inaccurate information to the government?
said by nasadude:why should a local government have to do this? Why won't comcast or whomever, provide this information, especially if whoever is requesting it provides payment for the trouble? I would be irate if my local government was wasting our money trying to get specifics of broadband installations from any company. We have more important things to spend tax money on... and one of those things is not on behalf of stupid people who are too lazy to verify broadband availability on their own.
said by nasadude:THERE IS NO REASON FOR THEM TO REFUSE TO PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION UNLESS THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE! So if they have nothing to hide they have nothing to worry about? Where have we heard this argument before? 
said by nasadude:and what they have to hide is the sorry state of broadband coverage and lack of competition in the U.S. Well the majority of people probably think that broadband is good enough. If it wasn't, you'd see more improvements. But if customers are not willing to pay premium prices for premium service, that's more of a knock on them and not the providers.
said by nasadude:The free market, deregulatory regime we currently have IS A FAILURE. From 1st to 15th in less than 10 years - doesn't sound like a success story to me. Most populated parts of the USA have access to good broadband speeds at zero cost to the taxpayer. How is that bad?
said by nasadude:If the true picture of broadband in the U.S. were shown, the FCC and industry would be unable to claim "vigorous competition" without getting laughed at. But they are getting laughed at right now...
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| I know you like to have the last word, so here is one more thing to respond to, I'm done.
I am positive you would not get accurate information by just calling comcast for every address in a location and asking if they have service. Maybe I will try it sometime and see if I can get a comcast rep to stay on the line thru 100,000 address requests. It's simply insane to suggest the information be obtained this way. You disagree, fine. we agree to disagree.
I would like to see the U.S. have better broadband, because I would like higher speeds at lower prices like most of the developed world has. I also think it's imperative to the economic well being and advancement of the U.S. to have broadband equivalent to the world's best - that's where we used to be and that's where I would like us to be again. It's clear from your statements this is of no concern whatsoever to you as long as you have yours.
It's obvious that your income is high enough that you don't care about price and you also aren't particularly concerned about speed. Fair enough. You're not obligated to look any further than your own concerns or needs.
One last thing: how do you know most populated parts of the USA have access to good (as in 3Mbps or better, none of this 200k crap) broadband speeds? The data the FCC reports has no relation to reality and the incumbents won't provide it - did you call and inquire for each of tens of millions of addresses? |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | reply to nasadude
said by nasadude:so I guess, yeah, if someone wants to create a comcast service map, they can call comcast and ask for every address in an area. That's a lotta dam calls. And you will quickly be served with a restraining order. |
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Reviews:
 ·DSL EXTREME
| reply to nasadude
said by nasadude:I know you like to have the last word, so here is one more thing to respond to, I'm done. I am positive you would not get accurate information by just calling comcast for every address in a location and asking if they have service. Maybe I will try it sometime and see if I can get a comcast rep to stay on the line through 100,000 address requests. It's simply insane to suggest the information be obtained this way. You disagree, fine. we agree to disagree. I would like to see the U.S. have better broadband, because I would like higher speeds at lower prices like most of the developed world has. I also think it's imperative to the economic well being and advancement of the U.S. to have broadband equivalent to the world's best - that's where we used to be and that's where I would like us to be again. It's clear from your statements this is of no concern whatsoever to you as long as you have yours. It's obvious that your income is high enough that you don't care about price and you also aren't particularly concerned about speed. Fair enough. You're not obligated to look any further than your own concerns or needs. One last thing: how do you know most populated parts of the USA have access to good (as in 3Mbps or better, none of this 200k crap) broadband speeds? The data the FCC reports has no relation to reality and the incumbents won't provide it - did you call and inquire for each of tens of millions of addresses? Good point nasadude, If one were to ask a telephone company If a particular address is within range of DSL service, All they will say frequently is "We don't know as We need a phone number to figure that out with", So with DSL It's potluck, your neighbor may have DSL, But that will never guarantee that Your address will ever have It. And Fios, Well It should be easy to determine once It's in an area as It covers an area like Cable does You'd think, Deregulation to Cable and the Telecoms is a good thing while It's a bad thing to the US consumer, As It's a Good thing to them as then they can do whatever the CEO and Board of Directors wants to do. Verizon would sell off the Rural area I live in, But they can't as this area links Verizon on the west Coast to Texas and parts of Verizon beyond Texas, So we're safe(No Fairpoint West here), Of course that doesn't mean they'll ever install Fios out here as the only thing they've done lately is to increase DSL speeds to their customers that are within 9000' of the CO and Yes I'm getting 6M speeds on the download, No change on the upload speed though as It's stuck at 768K just like It was at 3M speeds, So It's not quite as good as Fios in that respect. We do have TWC nearby of course, But I'd pass on their email as I've had problems with people receiving emails sent from the rr.com domain as some block the rr.com domain due to spam. I'd also pass on their phone as I like Verizons phone service better and for TV, I just happen to like Dish Network better, But that's the competition around here and My personal preference too, Some are good at one thing and others aren't, Cable may be good with TV and internet(If internet doesn't interfere with Your TV that is), But I don't like Cable TVs constant raising of the bar on prices.
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(26.04GHz crunching for SETI with the PC Perspective Killer Frogs) |
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pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | said by zoom314:If one were to ask a telephone company If a particular address is within range of DSL service, All they will say frequently is "We don't know as We need a phone number to figure that out with", So with DSL It's potluck, your neighbor may have DSL, But that will never guarantee that Your address will ever have It. Completely and totally wrong.
I will post the links here once more:
FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp
Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm
AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL
QWest DSL lookup by address:
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html
It appears the assertion I made in my original post is correct. The information is there if you want it.
Personally, I feel my time is too valuable to spend on entering every possible address into these websites. However, for those of you who feel that we must absolutely have such information, have at it.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate! |
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