said by mig :

I disagree.

said by MarkH :

As do I, much better to leave things as they are.

The random locked threads and deleted posts look so much better.

said by mig :

One thing I have noticed is that whenever a thread is locked or deleted in this forum it usually involves a post from a member who claims they have left this site, but somehow just manages to keep on hanging around.

Wonder if that might have something to do with it?

said by MarkH :

Possibly so, possibly not. Maybe they are people who left with the team and still have other interest here on some of the other forums, or members who only post very occasionally.

The possibilities are like rumors, they never end.

said by mig :

Possibly so.

Showing up on the site is one thing. Showing up in a DC forum one vows that they have left behind is another.

Would be interesting to see the # of locked or deleted threads in all these other forums here that former team members post in as compared to this forum.

said by MarkH :

Putting aside locked and deleted posts just for now, we all know that there are members who read the forums here, and the forums elsewhere. When something of interest is posted in one place, it is going to be noted by at least one person and word passed on about it.

said by MarkH :

As do I, much better to leave things as they are.

The random locked threads and deleted posts look so much better.

said by MarkH :

That automatically leads to a situation that members or ex members who haven't bothered to read or post in the forum are going to come visit and see.
If when they arrive they find something they don't agree with, they are likely going to post on one or both sets of forums how they see things and present their opinion.
A simple case of human habits and the nature of the internet at work.

said by MarkH :

Yes it was made as a sarcastic comment, guilty as charged.

Indeed, peoples beliefs are ultimately what these topics are invariably about.

I personally believe that locked and deleted posts and threads are often indicative of something being hidden when there are so many of them.

I much prefer that things (however embarrassing they may be) are left for all to see, providing of course they aren't personal attacks.
Debate is a good thing in my opinion, and part of debate is disagreements, you can either try and erase all evidence of the disagreement, or face up to it and deal with it.
At least when it is dealt with, you don't have it resurfacing time and again.

said by mig :

Since locked and deleted threads seem worrisome to some of your members, they probably should refrain from visiting a site that moderates to one that doesn't.

said by MarkH :

Ah yes, of course, we should stay away as was suggested by others in the past. Leave you be to get on with your forums and we stick with ours etc.

What then when things are posted that are blatantly untrue and sometimes offensive? Are they best ignored by us and left undefended?

You are wanting us to leave you all alone, that I can understand, but that is never going to happen as long as questions are asked about the two teams.
Wishing a problem away doesn't make it vanish forever. Especially when there are accusations made against the people you wish would leave you alone.

Yes, people come and make a post here after being away for a long period of time, but that is more due to the fact that nobody here will actually give a full and proper answer when the wrong questions are asked.

said by Alnero :

It seems that few people here feel that I deserve to be let know why there was a split, and because of this my last thread has been locked and many posts have been deleted for whatever reason.

I'd just like to wish you all the best with BBRTS, but I can no longer remain a member, not because of what I've found out, but because of what is being hidden from me. I can't remain in a team that is doing it's best to keep information from me....

This is a sad day for me, I've been crunching for a long time and most of that time was as part of BBRTS.

Goodbye,
Alnero

said by SkellBasher :

HFB, I would like to know what comments that you consider to be 'garbage and provocative'. I don't see that at all.

said by jons :

I simply think it is very important that this team and forum operate democratically, by the will of its members. Open discussion (and change, if necessary) should ideally happen all the time here.

said by BBR_InsUW :

If the question comes up about what happened its just this easy just politely explain that "there was a rift and some left and that is the way of the world"

said by SkellBasher :

But shouldn't people have the right to ask questions about it if they want to know more details? If someone would like to know more about why things ended up as they did, should they not be allowed to ask? We're pretty much all adults here, a civil conversation should be well within our capabilities.

Restricting the mention of TSWB, or the team split to be "it happened" is almost revisionist history. It's akin to a student asking what started WWI, and being told "someone got shot, but the allies won, so let it go".

Does it bring up some old grudges some people still have? It's obvious that it does. However, it is my opinion that any time it comes up, the folks who moderate this forum start to over-moderate it to death in order to restrict the perspective of events.

No, I don't personally want to rehash the events. It took me a couple days back then to read through all the public threads here to figure out what was going on myself. Anyone should be entitled to ask questions about those events, as painful as it may be for some to rehash them, and not bu subject to piecing through threads of edits and half deleted posts.

You may respond with 'we'll run our forum like we want', and that's fine. At least let these competing opinions be seen so readers can make their own, informed decisions.

said by BBR_InsUW :

Skellbasher yes you can ask and some will be glad to give you answers, and that is where the problem starts.

What happens is that you get 2 or 3 or 4 points of view on what happened and since a very large portion did not take place in this forum there are Holes in the history.

Anytime you have holes in history we all get a free ride to make up what we want to fill in the holes. Its human nature to want to know every little piece of the puzzle and when we cant, we speculate and guess about what is missing.
There is where the problems start and why its a tough issue.

Are there grudges, I know there are, I don't go to the other team site and post or read so I have no clue as to what they say, but every time a thread shows up here we see a large increase in anon posts and we see specific types of posts with an effort to open up issues and make specific comments.

Now I personally don't have an issue with polite and civil discussion, I even like to have some more serious discussions. But not everyone has the ability to keep it civil and usually it gets out of hand very fast.

So you ask a simple question of what happened and the next thing you know the "shit hit the fan" with the thread and you see lots of modding and deleted posts. And that starts the whole over-modding and we are trying to hide something.

I do understand what is going on and I have tried my best to be fair and I am sure the others that MOD in this forum do also.

So its a fine line that we are trying to balance on, the ability to have reasonable discussions without having to resort to excessive moderation.

There is no easy answer but I do not hear of complaints that members from here are posting in other place and causing trouble.

So yes I prefer to answer that there was a rift and some left the team, its not the best but its by far the safest.

Lastly it is truly OUR forum to run as we see fit and as long as you remember that the word OUR means the entire StarFire/Einstein Team.

Edward