  Realtech23 Premium join:2006-03-27 Olean, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| [TWC] All Time Warner and Road Runner Support back to Local Area
Now It has been a little over a year and i have been watching and judging from posts on areas that Time Warner/Road Runner took over that were Adelphia, seems to have more problems now than when they were Adelphia. Major issues seem to be Tech Support among other issues. My question to everyone out there is this. Should Time Warner bring All of there tech support back to local areas instead of still having a good percentage of it in Canada? Just as a quick thought A year and a month ago from today was one of the last days for the remaining 500 Adelphia techs in Coudersport, PA before the jobs were shipped to Cananda mind you. How effective is tech support and local support when half that support is outsourced out of country. Now i am not digging or taking shots at Local tech support that still does exist in US, they do what they can with the information they have. Basically asking you this, is it worth having all your help local or is it no big deal having support outsourced to other countries where the services does not even exist? -- I am the Coyote |
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  swintec Premium join:2003-12-19 Alfred, ME
·RapidVPS
·surpasshosting
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·VoicePulse
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: [TWC] All Time Warner and Road Runner Support back to Local
As long as we can both understand each other there really is no difference to me. The limited things the phone techs do now before wanting to send a truck doesnt matter if they are across the street or across the globe. -- BlockNews.Net |
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  Realtech23 Premium join:2006-03-27 Olean, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | said by swintec :The limited things the phone techs do now before wanting to send a truck doesnt matter if they are across the street or across the globe. Wouldn't that cause price increases with service when they send trucks out constantly with gas prices and such when alot of those issues can be resolved over the phone though? |
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 TWCdude
join:2006-04-28 San Antonio, TX
| reply to Realtech23 There really isn't much that can be done over the phone if the modem is offline the only thing you can do is check the connections remove any splitters and power cycle the modem if that don't work its a truck roll. If its online and you have an IP address I would say over 90% of the time its the computer at that point. The techs can play with the computer to try and get it to work but that's because they are being nice. The hardest part of my job is to prove the computer is at fault. Its not rocket science when people call in and you look at the modem stats it has perfect signals and the modem been online for 155 days straight to figure out where the problem is. |
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  MacLeech The one and only Premium join:2001-07-14 SoCal
| said by TWCdude : Its not rocket science when people call in and you look at the modem stats it has perfect signals and the modem been online for 155 days straight to figure out where the problem is. Too bad the modem doesn't show a history of signal levels, just a snapshot at the time it's queried.
Too bad the modem shows NOTHING of the upstream signal QUALITY received at the CMTS, it just shows the transmit level.
Too bad there are can be 3 different possible timers on cable modems and the one you might be looking at is a timer showing elapsed time since the modem was powered, not the elapsed time since the modem resync'd.
To bad the modem really doesn't track BER (bit error rate), codeword errors is kinda close but error correction makes it misleading.
So it's not rocket science to figure out what your looking at remotely may not be an accurate description of the what the customer or the modem is seeing. |
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 Mele20 Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
| reply to Realtech23 said by Realtech23 :said by swintec :The limited things the phone techs do now before wanting to send a truck doesnt matter if they are across the street or across the globe. Wouldn't that cause price increases with service when they send trucks out constantly with gas prices and such when alot of those issues can be resolved over the phone though? Yes, I have noticed this drastic change in how tech support takes place now with Road Runner. All the techs want to do is send a truck ...in particular, tier 1. Even tier 3 now (the newer hires) want only to send a truck. That is so stupid. Even when I tell them that I don't need a truck they send one anyway. Unbelieveable and a bad way to do business. If I can get one of the long time tier3 techs on the phone then he/she knows how to use their tools, how to read and interpret the information and also knows me and knows that I know more than 98% of users (that is a figure that tier 3 has used in regard to me) and, therefore, actually listens to what I am saying. Evidently, the new tier 1 and 3 techs are poorly trained. Management has groaned to me about this several times as I have been right each time. A truck roll was not needed. So, I place the blame on poor training of new tier 1 and 3 techs. Tier 1, of course, is just ciustomer service and 99% of what I say to them goes totally over their head. I don't know why we are filtered through them in the first place when the call is regarding support and not just a general question. I generally bypass tier 1 and just call the NHD and get routed back but to tier 3.
Generally though, because I am well known at the local office, someone will call me before doing a truck roll mandated by tier 1 or 3 over in Honolulu. -- "The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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 cwh
join:2006-05-14 San Antonio, TX
| reply to swintec said by swintec :As long as we can both understand each other there really is no difference to me. The limited things the phone techs do now before wanting to send a truck doesnt matter if they are across the street or across the globe. I agree completely. There is much cost savings that can be done with national help desk, however RR seems to have botched it.
I would call again the national help desk. They would determine the problem and ship me to local help desk. The local helpdesk would then have me do same trouble shooting the national help desk just had me do. It was like the local did not trust the answer from the national. This was one of the reasons I gave RR the boot. |
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 Mele20 Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
| NHD has told me on more than one occasion that 90% of calls are in regard to email problems either with Outlook Express or passwords being forgotten.
I don't blame tier 3 doing the "same" tests as NHD did. They have to confirm the problem locally. Plus, actually they can go deeper with the tests. NHD cannot ping all the modems on your node to see if others are having the problem or if it is isolated to you. Tier 3 may be pinging all those modems while it appears to you they are just doing the same tests NHD had you do. I'm not sure tier 2 can see the flap data either and other things that tier 3 sees.
To me, the problem lies with tier 1. They are frequently not well trained enough to know when to send the caller to NHD and when to transfer them to tier 3 or they are new and inexperienced. Plus, I suspect that if tier 3 is especially busy, or short handed, then tier 1 wil transfer to tier 2 for that reason. But tier 1 really should transfer email, RR dialup, password problems, newsgroups, and general questions to tier 2. Connection problems depending on how much troubleshooting the caller has already done should either go to tier 2 or tier 3. Frequently though, tier 1 either doesn't ask what the caller has already done to troubleshoot or doesn't understand the answer and cannot make the proper decision where to send the caller so they choose tier 2 so that their colleagues in tier 3 won't get ticked at them for sending a simple problem that tier 2 can solve to tier 3 thus wasting their time.
I don't know about elsewhere, but in Hawaii tier 3 techs take the same calls that tier 1 takes when they are not busy. So, here you may get tier 1 or tier 3 when you call. If you call any time other than middle of the night, or prime usage time, you usually get tier 3 directly. I try to avoid calling during peak times so I don't get sent over to tier 2 whom I know will send me back to tier 3 and tier 3 will give a constant busy signal to NHD during prime time. That means NHD has to give me a ticket number and tell me that tier 3 will call me the next day. It makes more sense to just wait and call the next day and get tier 3 immediately. Most of the experienced tier 3 techs here have left the 3PM-11PM shift and are on the 7AM-3PM shift now so it is best to call in the daytime for that reason too. -- "The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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  Realtech23 Premium join:2006-03-27 Olean, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Mele20 :NHD cannot ping all the modems on your node to see if others are having the problem or if it is isolated to you. I'm not sure tier 2 can see the flap data either and other things that tier 3 sees. I am sorry but you are sadly mistaken NHD that was local in Coudersport and the NHD that is in Buffalo Can and Does ping all modems on the node and Can see the Flaps and everything that tier 3 sees with only the exception of the outsourced Canada techs which is now there company standard. |
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 KC_RR
join:2007-11-08 Liberty, MO
1 edit | reply to Realtech23 i know here in KC we do have tools at tier 3 that NHD doesnt have. One of my favs does show a historical view of signal (forward and return) snr, bandwidth cmts utilizations and more. All NHD can do is pull up your modem see the bin file, see signals, ping, trace, and reboot. thats about it, i only really use them for the software suite, email, and other software issues. |
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 smcallah
join:2004-08-05 Home
| reply to Realtech23 While I don't like the idea of people losing their jobs because of outsourcing or even when they're redundant, I don't see why it matters where a person that answers a phone is, as long as they have the verbal ability to help you.
It's not like if they're local to you that they're going to pack up and jump in the car and come over to diagnose your problem closer. If that is needed, then obviously, then someone that does tech work in your area will be there.
A phone rep local to you or far from you is going to do the same thing.
The real problem here is probably the number of people doing phone support. If they had more, perhaps hold times and service would be better. |
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 oldbuzzard
join:2001-12-06 Hudson, OH
| said by smcallah :While I don't like the idea of people losing their jobs because of outsourcing or even when they're redundant, I don't see why it matters where a person that answers a phone is, as long as they have the verbal ability to help you. It's not like if they're local to you that they're going to pack up and jump in the car and come over to diagnose your problem closer. If that is needed, then obviously, then someone that does tech work in your area will be there. A phone rep local to you or far from you is going to do the same thing. The real problem here is probably the number of people doing phone support. If they had more, perhaps hold times and service would be better. I've found that phone support people who don't speak English as a first language are far less likely to prove helpful than those that do. They listen for keywords and read corseponding answers from their monitors. |
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 TWCdude
join:2006-04-28 San Antonio, TX
| reply to MacLeech said by MacLeech :said by TWCdude : Its not rocket science when people call in and you look at the modem stats it has perfect signals and the modem been online for 155 days straight to figure out where the problem is. Too bad the modem doesn't show a history of signal levels, just a snapshot at the time it's queried. Too bad the modem shows NOTHING of the upstream signal QUALITY received at the CMTS, it just shows the transmit level. Too bad there are can be 3 different possible timers on cable modems and the one you might be looking at is a timer showing elapsed time since the modem was powered, not the elapsed time since the modem resync'd. To bad the modem really doesn't track BER (bit error rate), codeword errors is kinda close but error correction makes it misleading. So it's not rocket science to figure out what your looking at remotely may not be an accurate description of the what the customer or the modem is seeing. actually the tools used by the reps at the local office have all that info time its up how long its been up how long its been down how many insertion failures, flaps, how many times you power cycled the modem, packet loss, signals from the modem to the tap sigs from the tap to the cmts card, even the brand of the nic that the modem is connected to ect. the reps have alot of info on the modems for up to a week. Unfortunately some dont use the tools given to them |
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 Mele20 Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
| reply to Realtech23 I wasn't referring to your franchise. Hawaii franchise has always had the NHD in Canada which is fine with me. Why would I expect a national help desk to be located locally? The word "national" doesn't imply a local location. Your franchise is too cheap to pay for NHD in Canada. That is your problem. Ours is done correctly. -- "The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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 Mele20 Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
| reply to oldbuzzard said by oldbuzzard :I've found that phone support people who don't speak English as a first language are far less likely to prove helpful than those that do. They listen for keywords and read corseponding answers from their monitors. The NHD is in Canada. I believe English is the first language for most Canadian provinces. I have rarely been on hold with NHD. Usually someone answers before the first ring. That has not historically been the case for tier 1, much less tier 3, in Hawaii. For about a year now tier 1 answers more quickly but sometimes even now you have a 30-60 minute wait. No wait to reach tier 2. -- "The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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  MacLeech The one and only Premium join:2001-07-14 SoCal
1 edit | reply to TWCdude said by TWCdude :Unfortunately some dont use the tools given to them and many more don't understand what they're really looking at.... it takes more than a little experience to really be proficient at looking at all of those stats and know what they mean.
Also, it really isn't displayed in a very friendly or easy to navigate way either, which is why some don't use them and others don't understand them.
The modem doesn't track all of those particular stats though, it's the back-end tools and their linked databases that do that, which is beyond the reach of many... for a variety of reasons. |
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 oldbuzzard
join:2001-12-06 Hudson, OH
| reply to Mele20 said by Mele20 :said by oldbuzzard :I've found that phone support people who don't speak English as a first language are far less likely to prove helpful than those that do. They listen for keywords and read corseponding answers from their monitors. The NHD is in Canada. I believe English is the first language for most Canadian provinces. I have rarely been on hold with NHD. Usually someone answers before the first ring. That has not historically been the case for tier 1, much less tier 3, in Hawaii. For about a year now tier 1 answers more quickly but sometimes even now you have a 30-60 minute wait. No wait to reach tier 2. I was speaking in generalities. |
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  hobgoblin Sortof Agoblin Premium join:2001-11-25 Orchard Park, NY clubs: | "I was speaking in generalities"
This is a specific Subject....not a general one. It relates to TW support.
Hob -- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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  americanada VIP join:2001-12-19 Covina, CA
| reply to Realtech23 When a lot of big businesses decided to outsource their care groups to Canada the Loonie was pitiful compared to the Greenback and it made good business sense. Now that the Loonie is at par there really isn't any reason to locate such a group in Canada.
I would guess companies that are outsourcing to Canada are going pull out and move them to Third World countries where the dollar is still worth something. |
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 Mele20 Premium join:2001-06-05 Hilo, HI
| said by americanada :I would guess companies that are outsourcing to Canada are going pull out and move them to Third World countries where the dollar is still worth something. True for NHD being pulled out of Canada and Dell leaving Canada. However, HP is moving TO Canada as well as the USA for its support centers. HP has gotten the message that what now is the best selling point initially, and also for loyalty/return, for sales for computers is USA/Canadian tech support. Dell and Road Runner have got it backwards. Dell is such a train wreck that I am not surprised...but TW ...that is a bit surprising. -- "The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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