Re: Non profit networking.... in

Re: Non profit networking.... in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20118433 en Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:59:59 EDT Sun, 06 Dec 2009 01:59:59 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20127044 batageek : it's a level playing field argument. You can't expect one provider to get one deal and another provider a different one.

From the city's point of view, it would dump them into a legal quagmire. The city, as it should, is looking to serve all its citizens with the same service and should be looking to get something out of the deal for its citizens.

As to the huge burdens, it's no different than what the cable cos are existing under presently. Cable cos have (in most places) universal buildout clauses for a franchise area (where local franchising has not been replaced with statewide franchising). Cities are typically trying to require the same of the bells when they begin offering video services.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20127044 Fri, 07 Mar 2008 16:44:24 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20124393 patcat88 : Deregulation = allowing anti-competitive practices]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20124393 Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:23:33 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123705 KrK : The Post Office has been getting better and better. More services, online automation, good service.

Course it's a quasi-government operation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123705 Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:56:10 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123077 Skippy25 : Did you expect them to be way ahead in less then 5 years?

Over time, UTOPIA will prove to be the way EVERY community should go. Futher more, I think UTOPIA will show this nation needs 1 fiber network to every person/business that any provider can provide any service to any customer anywhere in the nation that wants that service.

I strongely disagree that every business that wants to provide service should have to build their own network throughout my neighborhood/city. That is not in the best interest of the consumer's nor the citizens. It is only in the best interest of the companies that continue to try to monopolies the industry.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123077 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:33:30 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122407 jaminus : That law you cite does ban exclusive franchises, but in practice it does nothing to stop them. Sure, in *theory* the startup can get a franchise. But only if they hand over 5 percent of revenue to the city, promise to offer service in low-income areas with low adoption rates, and in the case of TV grant a channel devoted to city council meetings that barely anyone actually watches.

Yes, in some cases private investment payoff is too low to justify building a network if there's already one in place. But if you really think the huge burdens of franchise agreements do not discourage broadband choice, then I advise you to search DSLReports news about the obstacles FiOS and U-Verse have dealt with for the past couple years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122407 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:36:57 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121883 MyDogHsFleas :

said by axus

:

Heh I usually have a good time at the Post Office, it is not government run. I have had poor mail carriers.

It's true they are not literally government-run, but they certainly have that legacy and mindset. And they are (mostly) a monopoly, so they don't have the incentive to improve, really.

You are lucky. I'm in Austin, TX. All the post offices around here are severely understaffed, or should I say "under-worked". They build these beautiful new post office buildings, set up like 8 counters, and you never see more than 2 or 3 of them manned. The rest of the workers are on break or wandering around doing whatever. 30-minute waits for service are not uncommon. I avoid them like the plague. I use package services like DHL/FedEx whenever I can. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121883 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:05:06 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121501 axus : Heh I usually have a good time at the Post Office, it is not government run. I have had poor mail carriers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121501 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:49:54 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121488 axus : I'm always interested in how they are doing, I think its up to taxpayers if they want to go forward with these things. I think they will keep voting for it, even if it costs money in the short term.

Can you provide a link with their financial status that isn't a message-board post?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121488 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:48:15 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119609 anon : really. I have personally tried to get fiber from another cable company 10 miles away for a great price because a cable company (suscom) was going to allow this however suscom was bought out by comcast and comcast will not allow mediacom to run fiber to our buisness. whether its against the law or not i dont know but i do know that we are not going to pay a bunch of lawyers to find out. but this is the exact statement given to me from mediacom and they are and were very serious about getting our buisness for the next three years by running fiber to 6 different sites but no, freemarket ISP doesnt exist in my neighborhood]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119609 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:41:35 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119711 pnh102 :

said by jhboricua

:

Nice way of trying to twist my response.

Glad you see my point.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119711 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:26:11 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119489 MyDogHsFleas : Whenever people suggest to me that the government take over something because it'd be run better/more fairly/more cheaply/whatever, I always ask them if they enjoyed their last visit to the Motor Vehicle Department, Post Office, Courthouse, Tax Assessor's Office, Social Security Office, etc. Not to mention TSA at the airport.

These are perfect example of government-run services. They very obviously could care less about their customers. It's all about their employees, their rules, and their convenience. They literally have zero incentive to satisfy your particular needs.

Do big companies suck? Yes, in many ways. But, to me, big government takes suck to a whole new level. And, there are no checks and balances to stop them, really. At least with big corporations you have SOME level of choice (let the bitching about "there's no real competition" begin... but it's better than literally none except the Government). ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119489 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:56:53 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119406 viperlmw : UTOPIA would be considered an overbuild. Other infrastructure already exists (twisted pair copper (Qwest) and coax (whoever the cable provider is)). While it is a municipal build, it's still an overbuild. Anyone can do that if they can figure out how to pay for it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119406 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:45:16 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119333 batageek : I CALL B.S.

The only thing stopping multiple builds is the lack of payback in the private sector business model to do so.

The "crooked politician" arguments don't hold weight. Blocking a cable build by an "exclusive" agreement is against the law.

See: »www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscod···00-.html
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»www.tricitybroadband.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119333 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:31:53 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119102 LowRider : you make since but since there is never a vote for the people to decide i see this a moot point. the company's go to the top level of gov in that town and sign exclusive deals. there is no vote. Only politicians that think they know what there doing is the only vote. that's why most cities/town don't have two or more companies competing in the same area. imagine if you could choose between two or more cable company's, its a dream waiting to be had. a choice between cable, dsl, wireless, and satellite Internet is not competition since there speeds differ greatly in a given area. very few cities/towns get any competition between the 4 and usually there in huge cities. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119102 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:54:34 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119096 jhboricua : Nice way of trying to twist my response. I expected nothing less from a shill.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119096 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:52:39 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119036 pnh102 :

said by jhboricua

:

Northwest Airlines has been bailed twice by MN taxpayers with little to show for it. The Savings & Loans crisis of the 80's and 90's cost the US taxpayers $124.6 billion. The current subprime mortgage crisis IS costing taxpayers everywhere. These are just a few examples.

So you are proving that government bailouts are bad. Why should we allow for more to occur?
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119036 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:42:11 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119020 jhboricua :

said by pnh102

:

At least if a private company wasted that kind of cash, the general public would not be on the hook for anything.

Really? I call bs on that statement. Northwest Airlines has been bailed twice by MN taxpayers with little to show for it. The Savings & Loans crisis of the 80's and 90's cost the US taxpayers $124.6 billion. The current subprime mortgage crisis IS costing taxpayers everywhere. These are just a few examples.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * System Admin * MPLS, Minnesota, USA *]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119020 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:38:55 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118522 wentlanc : Whatever works.....

Paint the picture of doom and gloom, and fear monger as much as you like. If it makes the broadband landscape in the US better, I'm for it. I don't have any allegiance to any corporations pocketbook, so I'm actually open to suggestions.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118522 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:19:10 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118463 anon : Wrong! If you want competition and the best possible service for the lowest price. totally deregulate everything. any ISP has the right to come into any town so long as the citizens of the town have a chance to vote the ok that so called applying provider is allowed to run lines into the town to provide a service. It is called free market capitalism. as long as each provider applies to the town and the town votes to allow another ISP to come in then you will have the best possible rates. for those that vote no then no lines can or will be run through their premises for a said period of time. so they either have a choice to not get the service and vote no ro they get the service possibilities and say yay. to hell with regulation in all shapes and form this is what hurts the consumer in price economics.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118463 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:09:41 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118433 pnh102 :

said by elios

:

really? seems to working well in UT
UTOPIA seems to be doing well and this is pretty much what the OP is saying

Last we checked, UTOPIA was $98 million in the hole. The taxpayers are on the hook for this. At least if a private company wasted that kind of cash, the general public would not be on the hook for anything.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118433 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:05:17 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118386 elios : really? seems to working well in UT
UTOPIA seems to be doing well and this is pretty much what the OP is saying

and imo id take UTOPIA over FiOS any day ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118386 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:56:48 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118309 TKJunkMail :

said by wentlanc

:

Remove the transport from greedy corporations, and let them really compete for access.

Confiscation? That is your solution? Nationalizing an industry is the favorite tactic of socialist dictators everywhere. Let's turn the US in to Cuba or Venezuela.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118309 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:40:19 EDT Re: Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118288 patcat88 : 1984 deregulation (or reregulation if you want to call it that) worked very well. No player can offer the functions/services that its competitor offers. IE, ILEC can only offer copper loop, only ISP can offer DSL, only local exchange CLEC can offer intra-LATA, and only long distence can offer inter-LATA. When no players can control more than 1 part of the service, there will be competition]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118288 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:33:53 EDT Non profit networking.... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118251 wentlanc : Remove the transport from greedy corporations, and let them really compete for access. This would be revolutionary for the American consumer. It would also erode the pockets of the ISP's who rely on milking their infrastructure to make their profits. That's why they want closed networks. That's why they want full control. And that's why the want to avoid neutrality.

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118251 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:25:51 EDT