Re: Point Has Merit in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20119757 en Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:22:38 EDT Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:22:38 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20195458 anon :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

The people are stating that broadband IS NOT available and want to build out municipal networks.
Well if these people know that they cannot get broadband, then what is the point of the map telling them what they already know? What is stopping them from acting as private citizens to build their own network?
Well most private citizens are middle class and dont have the money the telecos have. the Telecos take all this money and never spend it which ends up lining the pockets of the rich private citzens rather than expanding their networks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20195458 Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:41:08 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20195372 anon : Verizon makes it impossible to see weather they will give you service without a call. Same with Earthlink. without a phone number they dont pull anything up. and anything built in last 15 years isnt registered on either site. so i think your statement is inaccurate.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20195372 Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:25:15 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20132595 anon : right, so that general purpose public tool has the entire database of where (for DSL for instance) the CO is, exactly how many wire feet are between it and the CO, the condition of hte lines between the requestor and the nearest CO wiht a DSLAM, and all the other technical data required to make a good solid "yes" or "no" as to the availablity of DSL?
..if you think it does, then you're wrong, very, very, very, wrong.
all that does is let you know if it's likely to work. all the rest of the technical data is not available until the provisioning department of the (I/C)LEC of your choice for DSL goes to have whomever is providing the DSL service start to provision the circuit. and even then, it's still posssible that even though the provisioning department gets the circuit provisioned, you can still end up with the lines between A and B not being able to support the speeds requested (and theoretically possible for the DSL circuit) and the whole thing gets deemed TNF.

yep.
people can get ALL that info RIGHT from the public checks, which most of (memory serving) say somewhere on them that just because the site says it's available at your location, it's not 100% for certain that you can get the service you're asking about.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20132595 Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:19:22 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20127195 anon : The point isn't to have this data so that individuals can determine if they can get service while not having to go through the trouble of checking for themselves, i.e. having the government find out for them.
It is to determine the country's actual state of communications deployment so that intelligent public policy can be developed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20127195 Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:16:16 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20126560 thevorpal : No, that's just really stupid.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20126560 Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:18:55 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123683 KrK :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

No company should have to disclose publicly where its main vulnerabilities are located.
They already do, though. Just see where the office of the CEO is, and where the board of directors meet. There's their main vulnerabilities and weaknesses. :D
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123683 Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:49:06 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123163 Skippy25 : Your lack of any concern for anything beyond the protection of providers is quite funny.

Since they have all this information available, why can't they simply provide it as public information so that others can easily access it?

You can't claim it is for "competitive" reasons as any "competitor" already knows where the other serves.

Besides, I would say it is public information for 2 reasons: 1.) They are a publicly traded company 2.) They are using public right aways.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20123163 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:47:41 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122798 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by marigolds See Profile :

None of those are spatial databases.
Zero.
Useless for spatial analysis.
Completely useless for network analysis.
Again, the information is there. It may not be in a convenient form, but it is there. Since most customers are more than capable of determining broadband availability on their own, I see no need for a government mandate.
No, it is not there in any form.

If I type in 7900 Forsyth Blvd, Clayton, MO, there is no indication of where that is according to the records of that company. They could consider that to be the bottom floor of the northmost building on that lot. They could consider that to the be the 8th floor of the southeast building. They might consider that to be part of the city of Clayton, or part of unincorporated St Louis County. They might mean the intersection of Forsyth and Central or the intersection of Forsyth and Meramac.
Which is it? Who knows. The companies are not going to say because that would be a statement of accuracy which they will not make.

So, where is the spatial database? Where is the record source that says whether or not there is service at 38.650025 North, 90.339069 W in NAD83 (and translate that relative to the correct HARN State Plane System for survey use)?
Because it is certainly not available in any of the links you provide, and without it you cannot map that broadband availability information.

This is not just about whether or not a consumer can find if they have service, it is about relevant agencies being able to conduct appropriate mapping and spatial analysis necessary for national security and emergency management.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122798 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:36:59 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122739 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by marigolds See Profile :

You have no clue. High speed internet is essential for emergency response and heavily used during disasters.
Heh.

All I can say to you is this... thank God for amateur radio operators.
Ham radio cannot transmit aerial imagery or lidar at any reasonable rate (it's possible since there is an ip over ham protocol, but satellite is much more reasonable). Nor can it transmit disaster assessment data at anything resembling a reasonable rate (you can just read the assessment forms over the radio... but again, very slow).

Basically, in the event of a widespread disaster, the relevant information is assembled on support intranets in impact resistance facilities. The information is then relayed to the nearest intact high speed internet facility for transmission to FEMA and the relevant state agencies.
I won't get into how the aerials and lidar are involved since that's a lot more complicated.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122739 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:27:50 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122531 pnh102 :
said by marigolds See Profile :

None of those are spatial databases.
Zero.
Useless for spatial analysis.
Completely useless for network analysis.
Again, the information is there. It may not be in a convenient form, but it is there. Since most customers are more than capable of determining broadband availability on their own, I see no need for a government mandate.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122531 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:53:04 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122524 pnh102 :
said by marigolds See Profile :

You have no clue. High speed internet is essential for emergency response and heavily used during disasters.
Heh.

All I can say to you is this... thank God for amateur radio operators.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122524 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:51:51 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122509 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

Now that's a silly argument. High Speed Internet is a luxury service, not something to be relied upon in the event of a disaster.
You have no clue. High speed internet is essential for emergency response and heavily used during disasters.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122509 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:49:56 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122501 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp

Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm

AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»https://swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL

QWest DSL lookup by address:
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html

Cox - »https://secure.cox.com/service/offers/av···ces.aspx

Comcast - (FINALLY) »https://www.comcast.com/Localization/Loc···x&area=6
None of those are spatial databases.
Zero.
Useless for spatial analysis.
Completely useless for network analysis.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122501 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:49:06 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122470 pnh102 :
said by marigolds See Profile :

When you put a map in google, it makes certain assumptions in terms of the geocode, datum, projection, and horizontal accuracy. These assumptions look okay on google maps, but would not work for many other mapping applications and no other spatial analysis applications.
Heh.

Google Maps has its own issues with out of date geocoding data. I would not assume for a second that they are 100% accurate in all situations.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122470 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:45:12 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122454 pnh102 :
said by woody7 See Profile :

The only conceivable reason that they don't want this info easily available is for the reasons that others have stated.
But if the information was never meant to be available why would ISPs publish websites where you can perform address lookups for various services offered?

We could look at this from the phone angle as well... let's say I am moving. I could call whatever cable company services the area to which I plan to move and ask "Do you offer High Speed Internet at my address?" If the cable companies were keeping deployment information a secret, then they would tell me that they could not help me. Of course, that scenario is ludicrous, and it shows that the information is already available.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122454 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:43:15 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122431 pnh102 :
said by marigolds See Profile :

For example, if I wanted to map out the verizon deployment in this county to determine the available communications grid in the event of a disaster...
Now that's a silly argument. High Speed Internet is a luxury service, not something to be relied upon in the event of a disaster.

As I've shown, again, people do not need the government to help them find out where broadband is or is not available. The resources are there, and people can make use of them already.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122431 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:40:36 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122411 pnh102 :
said by marigolds See Profile :

Where? I have yet to find the spatial database with that information.
Here we go again:

FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp

Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm

AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»https://swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL

QWest DSL lookup by address:
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html

I decided to bother with looking up the links for Cable ISPs as well as some people had griped that I had missed that. I regret the omission.

Cox - »https://secure.cox.com/service/offers/av···ces.aspx

Comcast - (FINALLY) »https://www.comcast.com/Localization/Loc···x&area=6

Time Warner's websites are state specific.

It took me about 10 minutes to compile this list. Anyone else who is interested is more than welcome to go to these websites and knock themselves out.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122411 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:37:44 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122377 pnh102 :
said by thevorpal See Profile :

Or should the governments have every person sit down, enter in their address to these websites, let it calculate, and then enter it into their own database.
Here's a better idea.

Let the people who really care about this information sit at their keyboards and man the phones and go through every address to find it.

If they find problems or discrepancies with the information, they can make every attempt to resolve it themselves.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20122377 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:30:34 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121982 moven : The ISPs are right. This bill is not needed. No company should have to disclose publicly where its main vulnerabilities are located.

We've already shown that most ISPs will tell customers whether or not they provide service to a particular address:
AT&T DSL lookup by address:

Oh, yeah, ATT works well. This stupid program can not even find my address!!

Sure would like someone to tell them to cut loose. Then maybe they would finish running their DSL the last few yards to my home.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20121982 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:24:36 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120419 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

Are you incapable of clicking on links and typing into webforms?
And where is Verizon getting the addressing information that it is using for this database? What is the geocode for this addressing information, against what datum, using what projection, to what horizontal accuracy?
When you put a map in google, it makes certain assumptions in terms of the geocode, datum, projection, and horizontal accuracy. These assumptions look okay on google maps, but would not work for many other mapping applications and no other spatial analysis applications.
Without this information, it is impossible to use the results of entering addresses into the webforms.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120419 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:56:57 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120351 thevorpal : So when I go to the city planning meeting, what information should I bring from this 'available' information.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120351 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:48:18 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120341 thevorpal : Because the data is already there and available to be parsed. It would cost them peanuts to provide this information so that local governments could actually decide what services are being provided to their community.

Or should the governments have every person sit down, enter in their address to these websites, let it calculate, and then enter it into their own database.

Its a waste of freaking money to have the information sitting there unused and intentionally hidden.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120341 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:47:13 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120147 pnh102 :
said by nasadude See Profile :

said by pnh102 See Profile :

The ISPs are right. This bill is not needed. No company should have to disclose publicly where its main vulnerabilities are located.

We've already shown that most ISPs will tell customers whether or not they provide service to a particular address:

FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp

Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm

AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»https://swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL

QWest DSL lookup by address:
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html

Anyone who is interested in determining service availability can use these forms to see if where they will be living can receive service. There is no need for an Act of Congress here.
I know you are not, but I have to ask: are you really this dumb?
Are you incapable of clicking on links and typing into webforms?
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120147 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:21:28 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120125 nasadude :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

The ISPs are right. This bill is not needed. No company should have to disclose publicly where its main vulnerabilities are located.

We've already shown that most ISPs will tell customers whether or not they provide service to a particular address:

FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp

Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm

AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»https://swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL

QWest DSL lookup by address:
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html

Anyone who is interested in determining service availability can use these forms to see if where they will be living can receive service. There is no need for an Act of Congress here.
I know you are not, but I have to ask: are you really this dumb?

I'm much more sure you are being willingly obtuse.

the data is not to benefit individuals seeking to know if they can get broadband service at a certain location. the data is to inform counties, cities, states, the govt as to where broadband is available and where it is not.

with this information, an accurate picture of the state of broadband deployment can be determined. this will help the policies and planning of those entities that give a shit about broadband deployment and think having it is important to their well being.

no incumbent or their representative have given any valid reason not to disclose this information.

except of course, to protect us from the terrorists]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20120125 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:17:59 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119908 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

What makes you think government-mandated maps will be any more accurate?
Because information for government maps must, by federal law, conform to FDGC standards for metadata and placing purposefully misleading accuracy statements in that metadata would then open up the data providers to lawsuit if those data are the basis for incorrect decisions.
Right now, Verizon makes no guarantee to their accuracy and has no liability if the accuracy of their mappings are incorrect.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119908 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:49:17 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119891 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by disc See Profile :

If they're limited to the links you provided, they'll have to work forever to find out where our last-mile infrastructure has poor investment (sorry, I mean vulnerabilities that would expose copper loops to attack).
If people think this is that important, then there is nothing stopping them from keying in all these requests manually and making their own map.
Yes, there is.
Check out the copyright notice on those links. And more importantly, the disclaimer of liability.
"VERIZON AND ITS AFFILIATES DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, REPRESENTATIONS OR ENDORSEMENTS, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH REGARD TO THE INFORMATION ACCESSED FROM, OR VIA, THIS SERVER OR THE INTERNET, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT. VERIZON DOES NOT ASSUME ANY LEGAL LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ACCURACY, COMPLETENESS, OR USEFULNESS OF ANY INFORMATION, APPARATUS, PRODUCT OR PROCESS DISCLOSED ON THE SERVER OR OTHER MATERIAL ACCESSIBLE FROM THE SERVER. IN NO EVENT SHALL VERIZON BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE INFORMATION ON THIS SERVER OR THE INTERNET GENERALLY."

In other words, there is no guarantee of accuracy, much less a statement of accuracy. For example, if I wanted to map out the verizon deployment in this county to determine the available communications grid in the event of a disaster... I could not use the data from that link (and according to Verizon's copyright notice, they could bar me from using that data in such a manner anyway).
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119891 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:47:15 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119839 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

said by marigolds See Profile :

And yet product pipelines, including natural gas and oil, have to disclose their locations.
So do ISPs. That's why this bill is not needed.
They do? Where? I have yet to find the spatial database with that information.
--
ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://bbs.iscabbs.com
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119839 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:40:22 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119757 woody7 : I think that it is valid,as consumers find on some sites they have to sift through piles of crap to get the answer they need, and it is ambiguous at best. I bet if some private party did just that, the uproar from the cablecos and even telcos would be deafening. The only conceivable reason that they don't want this info easily available is for the reasons that others have stated.It wouldn't paint them in a good light. Peace
--
BlooMe]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119757 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:30:25 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119695 pnh102 :
said by disc See Profile :

If they're limited to the links you provided, they'll have to work forever to find out where our last-mile infrastructure has poor investment (sorry, I mean vulnerabilities that would expose copper loops to attack).
If people think this is that important, then there is nothing stopping them from keying in all these requests manually and making their own map.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119695 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:24:21 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119686 pnh102 :
said by wentlanc See Profile :

No vulnerabilities have been requested. This is about actual penetration. And we're talking about broadband to the house, not corporate America to our pockets. But you just keep on fear mongering the world to try to hold on to your fading point.
Again, the information is already out there if you want it. An act of Congress is not needed.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119686 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:23:14 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119669 pnh102 :
said by marigolds See Profile :

And yet product pipelines, including natural gas and oil, have to disclose their locations.
So do ISPs. That's why this bill is not needed.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119669 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:20:56 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119656 pnh102 :
said by woody7 See Profile :

I don't see why there can't be a map of availability for the consumer...
That isn't a good argument for forcing ISPs to make them available. As I've stated before, consumers can already find out if a given address is serviceable.
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119656 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:19:49 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119637 pnh102 :
said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

The people are stating that broadband IS NOT available and want to build out municipal networks.
Well if these people know that they cannot get broadband, then what is the point of the map telling them what they already know? What is stopping them from acting as private citizens to build their own network?
--
This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119637 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:17:40 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119535 disc :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

Anyone who is interested in determining service availability can use these forms to see if where they will be living can receive service. There is no need for an Act of Congress here.
Good thing we're forcing not only the government to go through hoops to get this data, but now the terrorists too. If they're limited to the links you provided, they'll have to work forever to find out where our last-mile infrastructure has poor investment (sorry, I mean vulnerabilities that would expose copper loops to attack).

The terrorist play-book is full of things like this: seek out vulnerabilities in last-mile infrastructure, seek out vulnerabilities in newspaper delivery routes, etc. Imagine the untold damage they could do with that information.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119535 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 13:02:55 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119472 wentlanc :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

The ISPs are right. This bill is not needed. No company should have to disclose publicly where its main vulnerabilities are located.

We've already shown that most ISPs will tell customers whether or not they provide service to a particular address:
No vulnerabilities have been requested. This is about actual penetration. And we're talking about broadband to the house, not corporate America to our pockets. But you just keep on fear mongering the world to try to hold on to your fading point.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119472 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:53:26 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119094 marigolds :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

The ISPs are right. This bill is not needed. No company should have to disclose publicly where its main vulnerabilities are located.
And yet product pipelines, including natural gas and oil, have to disclose their locations.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119094 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:51:58 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119016 Hofftek :
said by gatorkram See Profile :

What makes you think government-mandated maps will be any more accurate?
It has been my experience the government does very little in respect to things that have come from those providing money to their coffers. With that said I believe the maps will be untouched and therefore only as accurate as the info provided by the ISP's]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20119016 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:37:27 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118952 woody7 : I don't see why there can't be a map of availability for the consumer.....and sometimes the private sector needs a prod from the government and in this day and age, that is what a lot of home buyers use in their criteria for buying a new home.. I believe the cablecos are reluctant in a large part in that they don't want their availability to be shown for a lot of reasons. It's that they don't want to spend the money in some areas unless they are threatened by some form of competition. Name some areas where there are more than one cable company that offers competing service, or by that matter a phone company..I live in a city where the phone is divided between verizon, and ATT, the ONLY cable company is RR.
--
BlooMe]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118952 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:26:55 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118885 PhoenixDown :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

People can verify broadband availability on their own. They do not need the government to do it for them.
The people are stating that broadband IS NOT available and want to build out municipal networks.

The cable and telephone companies are fighting these initiatives claiming that broadband IS available.

The point of this initiative is to determine exactly where broadband is or is not available so a comprehensive national deployment strategy can be put into place.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118885 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:13:08 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118817 pnh102 :
said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

they are being asked to provide the exact locations where they can, or can not, provide residential broadband services.
People can verify broadband availability on their own. They do not need the government to do it for them.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118817 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:00:55 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118811 pnh102 :
said by riturno See Profile :

Assuming that carriers already provide this information publicly, what is then the harm of providing it in an aggregated fashion?
If an ISP wishes to do so on its own then that is fine. I just don't see it as being the government's business to force them to provide this information.
said by riturno See Profile :

As you may have already noted, Comcast was not on your link list. In fact, no cable company was.
Comcast does have an address entry form on its main page... but its website sucks in general, which is one of the reasons I decided not to list it. However, there is nothing stopping people from calling them to see if service is available.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118811 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:59:36 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118801 PhoenixDown : They are not being asked for map of their network -- they are being asked to provide the exact locations where they can, or can not, provide residential broadband services.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118801 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:57:26 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118768 riturno : Assuming that carriers already provide this information publicly, what is then the harm of providing it in an aggregated fashion?

As you may have already noted, Comcast was not on your link list. In fact, no cable company was.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118768 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:53:00 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118722 pnh102 :
said by gatorkram See Profile :

Was a nice try though, what you said. To bad it's not true.
So based on your one single example you are going to conclude that all the information spewed by these links is false?

What makes you think government-mandated maps will be any more accurate?

For most people I know, these websites were a good thing, they verified broadband availability prior to moving.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118722 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:46:45 EDT Re: Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118686 gatorkram :
said by pnh102 See Profile :

Anyone who is interested in determining service availability can use these forms to see if where they will be living can receive service. There is no need for an Act of Congress here.
Before I got phone service at this address, I tried to check to see if I could get DSL here. It said no. Good thing I didn't rely on that system to determine if I wanted to live here.

For whatever reason, the moment I got phone service, it showed up that I could also get DSL.

Also these systems are well known to fail on new construction addresses.

Was a nice try though, what you said. To bad it's not true.
edit: more info added
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Give me bandwidth or give me death!
»/testhistory/661871/4f240]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118686 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:41:55 EDT Point Has Merit http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118499 pnh102 : The ISPs are right. This bill is not needed. No company should have to disclose publicly where its main vulnerabilities are located.

We've already shown that most ISPs will tell customers whether or not they provide service to a particular address:

FIOS lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/fiosforhome/ch···ntry.asp

Verizon DSL lookup by address: »www22.verizon.com/content/consum···ress.htm

AT&T DSL lookup by address:
»https://swot.sbc.com/swot/canIOrderOnlin···ocessDSL

QWest DSL lookup by address:
»www.qwest.com/residential/intern···ual.html

Anyone who is interested in determining service availability can use these forms to see if where they will be living can receive service. There is no need for an Act of Congress here.
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This isn't fair! I was only supposed to hate just ONE presidential candidate!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20118499 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:16:26 EDT