Reviews:
 ·Mediacom
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| If it's easy to break into your house, it's OK then? Seems like faulty logic to me.
"Sir, we are going to let the guy go who ransacked your house and stole all your stuff, because you didn't lock your back window. This is definitely your fault. Why did you even threaten him with prosecution? You have no right. In fact, we are going to release the information about your back window on the Internet, and make sarcastic remarks about how stupid you are." |
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 elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO
1 edit | its more like he left all his stuff out in the front yard and thought it was safe there |
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 rosco35Premium
join:2003-11-10
USA
kudos:1 | reply to MyDogHsFleas
said by MyDogHsFleas:Seems like faulty logic to me. "Sir, we are going to let the guy go who ransacked your house and stole all your stuff, because you didn't lock your back window. This is definitely your fault. Why did you even threaten him with prosecution? You have no right. In fact, we are going to release the information about your back window on the Internet, and make sarcastic remarks about how stupid you are." No but if I call his house and say "can I have your stuff" and then he brings it to me...did I steal it? |
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 RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | reply to MyDogHsFleas
said by MyDogHsFleas:Seems like faulty logic to me. "Sir, we are going to let the guy go who ransacked your house and stole all your stuff, because you didn't lock your back window. This is definitely your fault. Why did you even threaten him with prosecution? You have no right. In fact, we are going to release the information about your back window on the Internet, and make sarcastic remarks about how stupid you are." Actually, your logic is more faulty. It is more like you left your full size, floor to ceiling, wall to wall picture window drapes open and then got upset because everyone standing on the street or side walk (and not on your lawn) saw you undressed doing actions of dubious morality with another guy for a blue film and they are not buying your film.
In your example you have nothing left, in the other you still have what you started with and the option to close the drapes and continue on with your business.
If you chose not to shut the drapes but instead to sue all the onlookers for staring at you from the public access areas, then I wonder how far you would get?
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. |
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| reply to elios
said by elios:its more like he left all his stuff out in the front yard and thought it was safe there It's more like he left all his stuff out in the front yard and is now threatening anyone who dare just to say "The crazy guy on Main St left all his stuff out!". |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to elios
said by elios:its more like he left all his stuff out in the front yard and thought it was safe there You're just making my point for me. Just because it's easy doesn't mean it's legal.
It is no more legal to steal something off my front yard than it is to go in my open back window and steal something. |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to rosco35
said by rosco35:but if I call his house and say "can I have your stuff" and then he brings it to me...did I steal it? No, but that's not what happened here. No one gave them permission. |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | reply to MyDogHsFleas
yes but its your own fault you left it there
if you leave some thing out in the open like long enough some one is going to take it |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | reply to MyDogHsFleas
said by MyDogHsFleas:said by rosco35:but if I call his house and say "can I have your stuff" and then he brings it to me...did I steal it? No, but that's not what happened here. No one gave them permission. the server did
i type in the URL asking the server for the data the server HERE YOU GO and send it to me
IF they were smart they would have at lest check the IP of were its coming from and better yet ask for a log in of some kind
its as much stealing as asking youtube for a video |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to RayW
said by RayW:Actually, your logic is more faulty. It is more like you left your full size, floor to ceiling, wall to wall picture window drapes open and then got upset because everyone standing on the street or side walk (and not on your lawn) saw you undressed doing actions of dubious morality with another guy for a blue film and they are not buying your film. I'd say your analogy could stand a little tweaking. What it's really like is if I had the big drapes closed, but around the side of the house, there was an unmarked button. If you tried pushing the button, you'd find it opened the drapes and you could see what was going on. Then I came out and yelled at you for opening the drapes. Your defense is, "But the button is right over there! All I have to do is push it! If you didn't want your drapes open, you should have protected your button!" And then you wrote a story for the local paper telling people where the button is and how to press it.
In your example you have nothing left, in the other you still have what you started with and the option to close the drapes and continue on with your business.
But I really don't, because you've copied my blue film and posted it on the Internet. Where is my business now?
If you chose not to shut the drapes but instead to sue all the onlookers for staring at you from the public access areas, then I wonder how far you would get?
The thing you and others are missing is that the video streams are not really on public display. If someone goes through the front door of the mobitv site, there is no link that says "Hey! Click here and get it for free!" Instead, there's a signup process by which you are given access.
To bypass it, you have to know (a) the URL of a file and (b) how to download that file, save it, examine its contents, and copy/paste the imbedded URLs into a Web browser. We, as techno-elite people, know how to do those steps easily. I guarantee you that at least half of the people on the Internet would, given the URL, fail to download the file, examine it, and then view the videos. Additionally, the URL to the file is not obvious by any means. Someone figured it out and posted it. |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to elios
said by elios:yes but its your own fault you left it there if you leave some thing out in the open like long enough some one is going to take it What you say is completely true. It would be stupid for me to leave something out in my front yard that I didn't want to be taken.
However, that does NOT make it legal for someone to take it. If I catch the guy who took it and press charges, his defense of "it's your fault because you left it in your front yard" is not going to work. |
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rosco35Premium
join:2003-11-10
USA
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to elios
said by elios:said by MyDogHsFleas:said by rosco35:but if I call his house and say "can I have your stuff" and then he brings it to me...did I steal it? No, but that's not what happened here. No one gave them permission. the server did i type in the URL asking the server for the data the server HERE YOU GO and send it to me IF they were smart they would have at lest check the IP of were its coming from and better yet ask for a log in of some kind its as much stealing as asking youtube for a video exactly, the server granted the request, and sent the stream/text file back. the server didn't HAVE to send it back, it served the page because no security rules were being violated..probably because there were no rules in place. |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to elios
said by elios:its as much stealing as asking youtube for a video Again, this is the mentality of "if it's easy to take, it's legal".
The YouTube case is completely different. YouTube's business model IS to make the videos freely available, and they make money on advertising. |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | said by MyDogHsFleas:said by elios:its as much stealing as asking youtube for a video Again, this is the mentality of "if it's easy to take, it's legal". The YouTube case is completely different. YouTube's business model IS to make the videos freely available, and they make money on advertising. you do not seem to know how the net works do you?
let me help
if i send a request for a file to a server
and that server sends me want i ask for back
no law has been broken that server did exactly what its admins told it to do
if you dont want people using your service that are not intended to you need to protect it
for god sakes at lest put a password on it if not more
most of the steams off that are available to any one that as basic cable so imo its not even copyright infringement
maybe you could make a case for theft of service for the bandwidth used but you would have track down EVERY user that didnt pay for the service and good luck doing that
as i have said once on the net always on the net no putting it back now other then to secure it
GG MobiTV GG |
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 La LunaSurvived AshrafulPremium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3 | reply to MyDogHsFleas
said by MyDogHsFleas:said by rosco35:but if I call his house and say "can I have your stuff" and then he brings it to me...did I steal it? No, but that's not what happened here. No one gave them permission. Nor did they bother to secure anything. Whose fault is that? Howard Forums? I don't think so.
They got nailed, now they are trying to cover their butts for a really bad mistake on their part.
Have they bothered to secure anything even now, which would solve the problem? Doesn't appear so. They are wasting time bugging Howard Forums.
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to elios
said by elios:said by MyDogHsFleas:said by elios:its as much stealing as asking youtube for a video Again, this is the mentality of "if it's easy to take, it's legal". The YouTube case is completely different. YouTube's business model IS to make the videos freely available, and they make money on advertising. you do not seem to know how the net works do you? let me help if i send a request for a file to a server and that server sends me want i ask for back no law has been broken that server did exactly what its admins told it to do if you dont want people using your service that are not intended to you need to protect it for god sakes at lest put a password on it if not more most of the steams off that are available to any one that as basic cable so imo its not even copyright infringement maybe you could make a case for theft of service for the bandwidth used but you would have track down EVERY user that didnt pay for the service and good luck doing that as i have said once on the net always on the net no putting it back now other then to secure it GG MobiTV GG Yes, I know how the Web works.
Let me try one more time.
Just because someone told you how to take it, that doesn't mean it's legal.
Someone figured out a non-obvious deep URL that loads a file that has embedded in it other deep URLs that, if manually cut/pasted, bypass the signup/authentication system on this website. That is far from "I just accessed a Web page".
And, you insist on blaming them for not having strong enough security. And that there's nothing wrong with bypassing it. Because, it's "easy".
And, by the way, programs carried on basic cable, or over-the-air, are still copyrighted. This is yet another "if it's easy to take, then there's nothing wrong with taking it" mentality at work. |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to La Luna
said by La Luna:Nor did they bother to secure anything. Whose fault is that? Howard Forums? I don't think so. Yeah, actually, it is Howard Forums' fault. Reputable forums don't post security bypasses, even if l33t hackers think they're "simple". And if someone posts one, and they are asked to take it down, they do.
They got nailed, now they are trying to cover their butts for a really bad mistake on their part.
Have they bothered to secure anything even now, which would solve the problem? Doesn't appear so. They are wasting time bugging Howard Forums.
You are right about this, from a practical point of view. |
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rosco35Premium
join:2003-11-10
USA
kudos:1 | said by MyDogHsFleas:said by La Luna:Nor did they bother to secure anything. Whose fault is that? Howard Forums? I don't think so. Yeah, actually, it is Howard Forums' fault. Reputable forums don't post security bypasses, even if l33t hackers think they're "simple". And if someone posts one, and they are asked to take it down, they do. They got nailed, now they are trying to cover their butts for a really bad mistake on their part.
Have they bothered to secure anything even now, which would solve the problem? Doesn't appear so. They are wasting time bugging Howard Forums.
You are right about this, from a practical point of view. I have to point out that it is not a security bypass. There was NO security in place. obscurity != security |
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 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 | reply to La Luna
said by La Luna:Nor did they bother to secure anything. Whose fault is that? Howard Forums? I don't think so. They got nailed, now they are trying to cover their butts for a really bad mistake on their part.
Have they bothered to secure anything even now, which would solve the problem? Doesn't appear so. They are wasting time bugging Howard Forums. Securing their system will take some time and negotiations with the carriers. All the users from Sprint, AT&T, Palm, etc(see their web page to see how many »www.mobitv.com/channels/ ) have paid about $10/mo for access. To add in security now means downloading code in to hundreds of thousands of devices from many different carriers. That isn't something they will just dash off. It could be quite a while before they fix any security holes.
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rosco35Premium
join:2003-11-10
USA
kudos:1 | they could start with an IP block restriction...it cant be that hard to figure out sprint's ip's.
even a username/password page could be inserted with generated passwords for subscribed phone numbers sent to the phone via text message.. |
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