ak3883
join:2005-08-20
Bensalem, PA
1 edit | Another way Comcast is making room for new HD channels...
I finally did a complete spreadsheet of all the channels on our system.
-The most surprising thing I found was that Comcast is now putting some HD channels on frequencies with Music Choice channels. I believe they are doing this on most or all frequencies(7 or 8) that carry Music Choice. This makes sense, since music choice takes up very little bandwidth with a static image and audio only.
-I found some HD channels are now using 3:1 compression. The blocks are just like cypherstream has: one block has Universal,NGEO,Food. Another has A&E,HGTV,Starz. The third has only HD Theater right now, but has 2 more channels with it, encrypted. I have accounted for all the rest of the HD channels, so 2 HD channels are already broadcasting but not mapped to cable boxes yet Obviously I can't tell which ones.
-We have a few channels open as well. I found 108(699mhz), 110(711mhz), 111(717mhz) only has 1 HD channel on it, and 112(723mhz). Can 699mhz be used, is that used for something else? TSreader wouldn't get a lock on that one. Analog 49,95,98 are open. Does 97 interfere with 98?
-Duplicate analog weatherscan locals were finally removed, and we have it only at analog 120(771mhz), which is as far as they push my system. Picture looks great. If I was only a 750mhz system can they push it out to 771mhz? All this time I thought it was an 870mhz because we had stuff past 750mhz...
-Channels 87/88 were added to VOD. So 83-88 are now VOD. Dunno why. Just counted 19 programs on right now, spread over 83-88. None HD right now. Fri night is usually one of the busiest times.
They definetly have been moving things around in the last couple days and it appears that wbub's claim of more HD channels on 3/18 can happen, we have the room. Since 2 new HD channels are already being sent, we even have room for 2:1. |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
4 edits | Yeah they have MC spread all over the place on my system. We have the following open: 82,87,88,97,119 and up.
97 can't be used because our Motorola OOB channel was stupidly put on 104.2 MHz (or 104.5 can't remember exactly). This is smack in the middle of channel 97's carrier. Many systems have a tough time since it's right in the FM band. You guys are closer to Philly, so I'd imagine there would be lots of ingress in the FM band, so they may put a QPSK OOB data carrier which has less SNR requirements of 64 or 256QAM. Many systems however put their OOB channel on 75.25 MHz (In the 4 MHz gap between Ch 4 and 5, which would be EIA CH 1, but it's not large enough to carry a full video channel).
The HD Theater will pair up with Animal Planet HD and History HD. This is my guess because that's how it's packaged on HITS Quantum AMC 18 at 105.0°W Transponder 8: »www.lyngsat.com/packages/hitsamc18.html
I also heard that depending on system architecture, you can push to EIA Ch 120 or 121 if your lucky on a 750 MHz system.
The key thing is the build out. For instance, a 750 MHz system where theres only one amp off of each node will be very successful getting to 771 MHz. Another 750 MHz system that maybe pushes 5 amps past the node will have a much harder time on that last leg. Perhaps they can up the levels out of the headend a bit, but you can't up them too high or you'll get clipping on the laser to the node. |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
1 edit | reply to ak3883
In a typical North American HFC deployment, 40 Mbps per narowcast QAM might be split across two fiber nodes and roughly 1,000 subscribers. By splitting that bandwidth across four nodes and employing wave division multiplexing (WDM), it’s possible to increase the amount of bandwidth going to each individual subscriber by 1,000%. In the scenario from today consumers get an average of 40 kbps each. With further node splitting and WDM, that number goes up to 40 Mbps.
(Works not only with DOCSIS, but VOD as well).
I'll take node splits and 4QAM VOD, over no node splits and 6QAM VOD any day. |
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markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Ever heard of Cable PON? Ever heard of a company named Vyyo? G-Pon (Moto), D-Pon (SA), and UltraBand Passives (Vyyo) is what will replace today's hot topics of "SDV", "3:1 QAM", and "1ghz". Expect business product rich areas to see it around mid-2009. Newer housing plans too. Capped out areas around 2011. Cox is deploying Vyyo's solution as I'm typing. Through passive equipment, their 1GHZ network will transform to 3GHZ of throughput for roughly $125 per home passed; $20 cheaper and 2800% more bandwidth provided than SDV. (2x more downstream, 10x more upstream) It's just too early to see what technology will win the benefit vs. cost game. |
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Agent 86
@comcast.net
| reply to ak3883
Cable companies would have more downstream bandwidth than they knew what to do with if they dropped analog channels. That seems like the best move at this point, especially if the price of a basic set top box can be reduced to $25 or so (when purchased in quantities of >10 million). |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| Well, that depends on who you are. Many people care more about having service on their old analog televisions, without having a STB for each. That will change over time, though slowly. Cable companies needs to balance the needs of that very large segment of their customer base with our desires for more HD. That's why we see what we see now, some HD but not every single HD channel that decides to hang out a shingle. |
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andyross
join:2003-05-04
Schaumburg, IL
| reply to ak3883
Just because a frequency isn't broadcasting video doesn't mean it's open. HSI and CDV will probably take up 2 or 3 channels.
By me, all of the MusicChoice channels are on one frequency, and it's still using 64QAM, too.
Don't call 3 HD on a frequency '3:1 compression'. That implies one HD requires the entire frequency, which is not true. At most, it would be 33% compression. I just call the 3-in-1 HD's 'triples'.
On a side note, Stargate: Atlantis on SciFi HD was pretty much artifact free last night. There was a little bit of choppiness when Sheppard first returned to Atlantis (in the future), but otherwise there were no breakups or streaking. There were only a few points, such as when Ronon was shooting the Wraith, where the picture did get 'grainy' for a split second. |
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luckykevin
join:2005-04-30
Arlington, TX | to Cyperstream: my system is now putting a test signal at 861mhz and we are going to either 860mhz   or 1ghz |
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Agent 86
@comcast.net
| reply to ak3883
"Many people care more about having service on their old analog televisions, without having a STB for each."
That's a nice feature, but losing it is not going to drive many people to the competition. After all, DBS doesn't offer analog. The main issue is not customer satisfaction but simply the cost of the set top boxes.
On the other hand, not having HD does drive people to the competition, and what's worse, they are the most profitable customers. |
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owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA
clubs:
| reply to luckykevin
said by luckykevin  :to Cyperstream: my system is now putting a test signal at 861mhz and we are going to either 860mhz or 1ghz How does one check for these things? |
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luckykevin
join:2005-04-30
Arlington, TX | to owlyn:
try either a qam tuner tv and push 118-0 or 135-0
hit cable power --> within one second hit ok scroll to d04 inband status and check every chsnnel to see your highest frequency or try fcc coals |
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owlyn
Premium,MVM
join:2004-06-05
Newtown, PA
clubs:
| said by luckykevin :to owlyn: try either a qam tuner tv and push 118-0 or 135-0 hit cable power --> within one second hit ok scroll to d04 inband status and check every chsnnel to see your highest frequency or try fcc coals Thanks I don't have a QAM tiner, and I was hoping that instead of the one-at-a-time there was a better solution.  |
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MOTO6809
join:2007-11-05
Springfield, MA
1 edit | reply to Agent 86
said by Agent 86 :
Cable companies would have more downstream bandwidth than they knew what to do with if they dropped analog channels.
No it's never enough. I remember when we went from 350Mhz to 550Mhz(more than enough?) and now 870mhz. The only way you may have enough bandwidth is with either passive coax network or DPON (DOCSIS Passive optical network).
Vyyo is an option, but you double your equipment (amps/passives). In my opinion that's a bad idea, because now you have double the maintenance, and double the chance of failure. |
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bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
1 edit | reply to Agent 86
said by Agent 86 :
"Many people care more about having service on their old analog televisions, without having a STB for each."
That's a nice feature, but losing it is not going to drive many people to the competition. After all, DBS doesn't offer analog. That doesn't matter. For many of these low-tier customers, the feature has been enough incentive for them to bypass considering other options. If they suddenly HAVE to have boxes for every television, then every competitor is the same to them, and they'll shop for the lowest price.
said by Agent 86 :
The main issue is not customer satisfaction but simply the cost of the set top boxes. No, the main issue is profit.
said by Agent 86 :
On the other hand, not having HD does drive people to the competition, and what's worse, they are the most profitable customers. Maybe, maybe not. Comcast actually knows. Their decisions are really the best indications we have of what the forecasts stay about what you've speculated. Right now, it is clear that the loss of business from customers upset about losing any more analog channels outweighs the loss of business from customers who are counting HD channels. |
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markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| reply to MOTO6809
Most of the passive equipment will replace the existing.
Taps:
»vyyo.myspin.com/Assets/Files/XPTF(2).pdf
»vyyo.myspin.com/Assets/Files/XFFT(4).pdf
Plug-in modules for the taps:
»vyyo.myspin.com/Assets/Files/XFF···F_CS.pdf
»vyyo.myspin.com/Assets/Files/XFF···A(1).pdf
Coupler/splitter:
»vyyo.myspin.com/Assets/Files/XSP(5).pdf
Power insters/line equalizers:
»vyyo.myspin.com/Assets/Files/XLEQ(4).pdf
»vyyo.myspin.com/Assets/Files/XLPI(7).pdf
Time Warner has been in talks with BigBand and Vyyo about penetrating fiber deeper into the network. The theory is, since fiber is now cheaper than copper when running over 25 miles, the fiber should penetrate deeper. The solution in discussion calls for a 50 home max node to serve on the head-end, where today it's between 200 and 1,000 homes. Existing coax would extend from the deep territory node into the homes, eliminating extenders, extra amps, laying new line, or installing devices on customer property. In fact, it would eliminate the need for alot of vampiric equipment that is used just to get distance over copper. Vyyo's components would allow 3ghz over coax today, with 6ghz possible in the near future (still some kinks in that). BigBand comes in to offer both switched broadcast (what FIOS uses) and switched multicast solutions (SDV as we use the term on this forum). This will allow a "shared" fiber link, almost eliminating the needs for headends that aren't introducing local broadcast stations. CMC could then feed ALL national stations, regionals could add locals for all of it's nodes, and between switched broadcast and switched multicast, this higher amount of channels carried over the fiber would result in less space on the coax needed than today due to switching at the regionals and nodes. The 3ghz of spectrum would only need the first 1003mhz to serve video after MPEG4 and VOD-IPTV is rolled out. That leaves 1300-2750mhz for data (VOD, PPV, internet, phone, interactive TV). Ten to fifteen years after, only the absolute last mile of 50 homes needs to have the coax swapped to fiber and you now have a network with less homes shared per fiber than FIOS (64; deployment started with 32 but new PON technology allowed 64 to be passed greatly reducing the cost). It's a step-step solution that solves today's problems and GREATLY reduces future expansion that WILL be needed. 1080P HDTV will never happen; we're gonna skip that and go straight to 1620P HDTV. With the switchable node only servicing 50 homes, the 1ghz spectrum could easily serve 4 different HD channels being watched in all 50 homes (MPEG4). The CableLab members are sharing testing and deployment of the different technologies. In 3-4 years, there will be a winner for return on investment and that tech will be deployed over a wider spread. It could be something in the works today that isn't public. The notion today, from multiple companies, is to use 870mhz of bandwidth for linear video only and push VOD, Docsis, etc into the 870 and above spectrum. Docsis 3.0 requires 4 dedicated QAM channels (24 mhz) minimum, support up to 8 today. |
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MOTO6809
join:2007-11-05
Springfield, MA
| said by markofmayhem :Time Warner has been in talks with BigBand and Vyyo about penetrating fiber deeper into the network. The theory is, since fiber is now cheaper than copper when running over 25 miles, the fiber should penetrate deeper. The solution in discussion calls for a 50 home max node to serve on the head-end, where today it's between 200 and 1,000 homes. Existing coax would extend from the deep territory node into the homes, eliminating extenders, extra amps, laying new line, or installing devices on customer property. In fact, it would eliminate the need for alot of vampiric equipment that is used just to get distance over copper. Vyyo's components would allow 3ghz over coax today, with 6ghz possible in the near future (still some kinks in that). BigBand comes in to offer both switched broadcast (what FIOS uses) and switched multicast solutions (SDV as we use the term on this forum). This will allow a "shared" fiber link, almost eliminating the needs for headends that aren't introducing local broadcast stations. CMC could then feed ALL national stations, regionals could add locals for all of it's nodes, and between switched broadcast and switched multicast, this higher amount of channels carried over the fiber would result in less space on the coax needed than today due to switching at the regionals and nodes. The 3ghz of spectrum would only need the first 1003mhz to serve video after MPEG4 and VOD-IPTV is rolled out. That leaves 1300-2750mhz for data (VOD, PPV, internet, phone, interactive TV). Ten to fifteen years after, only the absolute last mile of 50 homes needs to have the coax swapped to fiber and you now have a network with less homes shared per fiber than FIOS (64; deployment started with 32 but new PON technology allowed 64 to be passed greatly reducing the cost). It's a step-step solution that solves today's problems and GREATLY reduces future expansion that WILL be needed. 1080P HDTV will never happen; we're gonna skip that and go straight to 1620P HDTV. With the switchable node only servicing 50 homes, the 1ghz spectrum could easily serve 4 different HD channels being watched in all 50 homes (MPEG4). The CableLab members are sharing testing and deployment of the different technologies. In 3-4 years, there will be a winner for return on investment and that tech will be deployed over a wider spread. It could be something in the works today that isn't public. The notion today, from multiple companies, is to use 870mhz of bandwidth for linear video only and push VOD, Docsis, etc into the 870 and above spectrum. Docsis 3.0 requires 4 dedicated QAM channels (24 mhz) minimum, support up to 8 today. When I went to cable expo in Florida, Vyyo showed a 2Ghz overlay on to existing 870plant.It was basically double the equipment.
However what your talking about seems to be a better solution. If I understand what you are saying, it seems like a passive coax network. Headend to the node(node being only active) then to taps only.
A true fiber to feeder design.. That would be a more economical solution to compete FTTH. That would save cable from having to dig up neighborhoods and all that good stuff that goes along with rebuilds. |
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NoPegs
Premium
join:2006-06-14
Myerstown, PA
| The 2ghz overlay projects still boggle my mind. X_x Some of them even claim that you don't have to re-space your amps, which is craaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzyyyyy!!!
All things being equal, I'm a fan of "Tear it up, rebuild it..." over "Try and upgrade what we have" any day though... |
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MOTO6809
join:2007-11-05
Springfield, MA
| said by NoPegs :The 2ghz overlay projects still boggle my mind. X_x Some of them even claim that you don't have to re-space your amps, which is craaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzyyyyy!!! All things being equal, I'm a fan of "Tear it up, rebuild it..." over "Try and upgrade what we have" any day though... NoPegs is your user name for (P)ublic (E)ducational (G)overnment channels? If it is I agree, they are a pain in the A$$.. |
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NoPegs
Premium
join:2006-06-14
Myerstown, PA | Nope, It is just Sponge anagrammed... Better than EGNOPS (Sponge backwards) |
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markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| reply to MOTO6809
said by MOTO6809 :However what your talking about seems to be a better solution. If I understand what you are saying, it seems like a passive coax network. Headend to the node(node being only active) then to taps only. A true fiber to feeder design.. That would be a more economical solution to compete FTTH. That would save cable from having to dig up neighborhoods and all that good stuff that goes along with rebuilds. Bingo! Verizon is paying, roughly, $1100 per home passed for FTTH deployment (the whole system, region wide, is roughly 1100 X number of homes excluding MDUs). Vyyo/BigBand estimate their deeper penetration model PLUS doubling bandwidth over coax would cost less than $500 using their pricing plus an estimate of the cost of Moto's and Cisco's equipment. It would EASILY solve many issues:
Today's solutions
-Linear channel bandwidth: between 750mhz and 870mhz for video only minus 1 QAM for legacy return path and 4-6 legacy VOD QAMs (with up to 30 analog, that's roughly 84 QAM free for digital video; 300 SD channels and 160 HD using 15:1 for SD and 3:1 for half of the HD and 2:1 for the other half; not to mention what's "switched off" because it's not being watched through SDV)
-Data between 1300 and 2750mhz (by freeing Docsis 3.0 from the video range; it can grow and expand while additional linear channels continue to be added. Also, "Start Over", VOD, and other video services could now be "delivered" to supporting devices (STB DVR's) over Docsis 3.0 and stored within buffers resulting in burst transmitted video rather than streamed video)
-"Canoe" switching: current advertising project to exploit all of the new technologies in advertising revenue gain strategies. (I payed my bill late in November, so I'm now on the "BLUE" tier for advertising meaning when a local ad-insertion flag comes on, I'm tuned to a frequency that shows "BLUE" tier commercials focused on people with poor credit... did you REALLY THINK SDV WAS ABOUT BANDWIDTH!!!)
-Upgrades include adding nodes and running fiber; replacing all taps and filters; removing amps and adding only as necessary (great time to go 1ghz!) for as much of a passive coax network as terrain allows. |
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