Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
1 edit | The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars
The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars
At the moment there is heavy discussion on various boards alleging that Grisoft AVG have included the Yahoo Toolbar with their new Security Suite.
Corrine, a well-known MS-MVP Consumer Security gave on SpywareBeware! an (incomplete) survey about programs that include (pre-checked) toolbars:
- Adobe Flash: Google Toolbar
- AVG 8.0: Yahoo Toolbar (Included with Linkshield)
- CCleaner (full versions only): Yahoo Toolbar
- Daemon Tools (free version): SaveNow Toolbar (disguised as Dameon Tools Search Bar)
- Nero Burning Rom: Ask Toolbar
- PC Tools Firewall Plus: Google Toolbar + PC Tools ThreatFire Free
- Sun Java: Google Toolbar
- Spyware Terminator: Crawler Toolbar (may also change start page)
- Webroot Spysweeper[/b]: Ask Toolbar
- ZoneAlarm (free version): Ask Toolbar
Link removed re: Corrine post below.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/ |
|
La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| No Google toolbar even offered with the last Sun Java update here. *shrug*
While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway.
If it gets installed because someone didn't uncheck a box, they weren't paying attention.
From that list, I use CCleaner, ThreatFire, Sun Java, Daemon Tools and Zone Alarm, and have never had a toolbar installed inadvertently.
--
10,696 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11~~TEAM DISCOVERY
Can't feel you anymore, don't need you anymore, don't believe you anymore, I don't need you anymore
|
|
hayc59
VoodooChild
Premium
join:2001-02-26
David R.I.P.
4 edits | reply to Name Game
Money is the root of all 'evil'
and it seems to be the only reason you would in-corporate
that crap into some of the finer things in life 
seems I did not see this list or thread?? where is it posted??? I do see the one at Smokeys 'Blog'
 |
|
Corrine
Premium
join:2004-08-27
| reply to Name Game
Although the general information is public about software including toolbars, the list I compiled was posted in a private discussion in a private forum and published without permission.
With regard to the Google toolbar offered with Sun Java, I have learned that this is old news. See »weblogs.java.net/blog/kgh/archiv···the.html I believe it is still offered just from the www.java.com if the user does not have the Google toolbar already installed. I do not know from personal experience as Java is not installed on my home computer, nor are there any toolbars -- Google or otherwise.
--
Microsoft MVP; Admin Council & Charter Member ASAP;
Visit the Security Garden, Where Everything is Coming up Roses" |
|
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| said by Corrine  :Although the general information is public about software including toolbars, the list I compiled was posted in a private discussion in a private forum and published without permission. That is sad..but if you really want it private..then will make sure it does not happen again since you are claiming rights to the info posted at an open blog.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/ |
|
EGeezer
Summertime -
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
·Callcentric
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T CallVantage
1 edit | reply to Name Game
I've noticed this trend too, but hadn't considered it more than a minor item. I'm conditioned to look for such things, but many users aren't. I'd be upset if it were part of any auto-updates that are pushed out (for example AVG's almost daily downloads).
For a small network admin where user permissions are in the "power user" range, it can be a PITA when users download flash and get toolbars then mention that it "suddenly showed up" and they want to get rid of it. A quick "how to remove" email to the users and caution to read and uncheck optional features usually takes care of this.
Although I'd prefer the boxes be unchecked, I have no major objections to legitimate free applications getting a few bucks as long as the boxes are easy to see and clearly described.
I'm more upset when applications default to "stealing" default file associations from other installed applications.
EDIT - J, I think Corrine means to say the information in the open blog was published there was originally in a private channel. (I'm assuming the information was either clearly copyrighted or otherwise limited by her in the original publishing.)
I don't think she was placing blame on you, since you'd obviously have no way to know it was copyrighted material.
Now if she didn't restrict or copyright the material, it's fair game, and another case of "what goes on in the internet, stays in the internet - forever."
--
Mayors of New York come from nowhere and go nowhere.
Wallace Sayre |
|
hayc59
VoodooChild
Premium
join:2001-02-26
David R.I.P. | reply to Name Game
Now I see why I could not find the
info on this matter!!!
@ EGeezer, you make some good valid points |
|
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
1 edit | reply to Corrine
said by Corrine :With regard to the Google toolbar offered with Sun Java, I have learned that this is old news. See » weblogs.java.net/blog/kgh/archiv···the.html I believe it is still offered just from the www.java.com if the user does not have the Google toolbar already installed. I do not know from personal experience as Java is not installed on my home computer, nor are there any toolbars -- Google or otherwise. It certainly is still offered see this post
»Re: Sun Java JRE6 Update 5 released
and if you go into the .mst file and break it down you will see the code that is there for the google tool bar and other grabage...some of it download server specific
This you will find for google stuff
ht tp://toolbar.google.com/partners/terms
ht tp://desktop.google.com/eula.html"[ProgramFilesFolder]
ht tp://desktop.google.com/privacypolicy.html
ht tp://www.google.com/support/toolbar/?quick=privacy&v=4.0&hl
In that .MST file
Won't be long before Sun Java sells more space in the .mst since they are giving everyone free coffee in their opinion.
C:\WINDOWS\Local Settings\Application Data
You may find sub-folders with {long-unique-names} containing an .MSI file named something like:
"J2SE Runtime Environment 5.0 Update 1.msi"
and also an .MST file named after the language version installed. English is usually referenced by "1033", so the file would be named "1033.MST".
These .MSI files are created when you install the Java Runtime, and are the setup instruction files used to "reinstall" or "repair" the installed program. .MSI files are the files used by the latest "Windows Installer" (msiexec.exe), and aren't unique to Sun Java. The folder where they are copied to is unique, because others are copied to C:\Windows\Installer by a random name. The .MST file is known as a "transform" file that is used to provide additional instructions for the installation.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/ |
|
ModemHead
hmmm... what does this do?
Premium
join:2006-01-22
Apex, NC
| reply to Name Game
Just installed a Gigabyte motherboard and the drivers CD that came with it offered to install the Yahoo Toolbar (pre-checked) along with the drivers for the chipset, sound, ethernet, etc. |
|
jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
Scottsdale, AZ | reply to Name Game
"grabage"? :Love the word even if it wasn't intended. It fits perfectly with all these toolbars etc. They are there for the unknowing to grab and certainly do add garbage to one's computer if one isn't savvy enough to uncheck the downloads. |
|
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| said by jaykaykay :"grabage"? :Love the word even if it wasn't intended. It fits perfectly with all these toolbars etc. They are there for the unknowing to grab and certainly do add garbage to one's computer if one isn't savvy enough to uncheck the downloads. You have my permission to use that word again since I was not scratching in private.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/ |
|
dp
Go Steelers
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-08
Greensburg, PA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to Name Game
The ever popular Irfanview can be added to the list. Google Toolbar and Desktop Search are pre-selected for install.
I agree with EGeezer 's and La Luna 's comments:
said by EGeezer Although I'd prefer the boxes be unchecked, I have no major objections to legitimate free applications getting a few bucks as long as the boxes are easy to see and clearly described. said by La Luna While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway.
--
Microsoft MVP, 2004-2008 |
|
GroovyPhoenx
join:2006-05-22
Gloucester, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
| reply to La Luna
said by La Luna :No Google toolbar even offered with the last Sun Java update here. *shrug* While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway. If it gets installed because someone didn't uncheck a box, they weren't paying attention. I have to disagree with this statement, in most cases the person is not fully aware they are installing this, if you use a "standard" install versus a "custom" install then most times these toolbars will be installed. (Its one reason experienced users should use custom) I usually use custom because I want to tell software where to go (tools under C:\tools, games under c:\games etc etc.)
Point being default installs will not show up the toolbars in a lot of cases (Adobe for one) |
|
Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | reply to Name Game
Add Intervideo's WinDVD 8 to that list. It installs both
the Google Toolbar and Google Desktop Search, and throws
in RealPlayer and Quicktime to boot. Of course all four
of these are checked by default.
It's one thing when toolbars and foistware (everything
installs it) are bundled into free products; it's quite
another and IMO crosses the line when they are bundled
into paid/commercial software and even hardware.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
|
|
AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to dp
said by dp :. . I agree with EGeezer 's and La Luna 's comments: said by EGeezer Although I'd prefer the boxes be unchecked, I have no major objections to legitimate free applications getting a few bucks as long as the boxes are easy to see and clearly described. said by La Luna While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway. Exactamente.
And put me down for a second (or third, or fourth) to that emotion.
I'd prefer it weren't there to begin with, but it is.
I'd prefer to win several hundred million in the lottery, too. Oh well. |
|
mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Name Game
At least with the software you download/install yourself, there is a box to check or not check. There's so much grabage (the hottest internet meme, I hear) pre-installed on machines you don't build yourself. My latest laptop came preloaded with so much bloatware, I'm surprised it didn't make it heavier. Use of the recovery disk puts you right back where you were, uninstalling toolbars, "trial" software that costs $300 to continue using (I assume once they get you hooked), and some things that I still haven't figured out what they are. Not to mention an extra partition that would be difficult to find, if you weren't looking for such a thing. And there's no box to unselect to not install that stuff. |
|
chachazz
Premium
join:2003-12-14
| Thus, exists the Dell De-Crapifier & The PC Decrapifier
--
Gladiator Security Forum: www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
|
|
NanDog
The Pup Was Female, I'M Not
Premium
join:2003-12-28
Tacoma, WA
·Rainier Connect fr..
| reply to Name Game
Well, at least I now feel a little more justified in my posts about the Java/Google Toolbar option in this thread: »Sun Java JRE6 Update 5 released about the Google Toolbar option being seen and checked as default!
I know it's more marketing than anything but I really hate that the consumer has to choose to opt out of something as opposed to choosing a feature!
At least to me, it just seems to be a slimeball marketing tactic which hopes to snare the unwary!
When I go to the grocery store I purchase exactly what's on my list. I don't need to "un-buy" what I don't want!
My 2¢!
--
See ya across the Rainbow Bridge, my good and faithful friend! |
|
fishmaster
Premium
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL
·Comcast
·Insight Communicat..
| reply to Name Game
The idea of the pre-checked (other software) options is simply nothing more than an convenient, pre-configured, 'enhanced' install set instructions, designed to 'enhance' the users install experiences with other 'user experience enhancing software'. Some of these 'other software' may be, but not limited to, a tool/help bar that may have been copied... I mean created by certain other reputable 3rd parties from non reputable 3rd parties.
These "tool bars" are designed to 'enhance the customers computing & online experiences' How, you may ask? This software 'enhances' computing experience by 'enhancing' the CPU cycles, memory usage & not limited to the 'enhancement of browser settings, security settings and possible file settings and/or permissions. This software also 'enhances' the online experiences by, but not limited to, 'enhances' the collection of profiling/personal data for the copier/designer of that 'tool bar', 3rd parties & affiliates. In turn this 'enhances' the revenue of those 3rd parties and affiliates by the delivering of 'enhanced personable ads' to 'excite' the users experiences at the 'enhanced' expense of the user by creating 'enhanced' bandwidth, memory & CPU usage.
Should the user decide to uninstall the 'enhancing' software, it should be noted that the uninstall process itself will 'enhance' the users proficiency in using the add/remove programs in the Control Panel, search & Directory listing (because we may not have it listed in the ad/remove programs and/or the uninstaller may not delete or uninstall everything in its entirety. This will also 'enhance' the users proficiency in the use and search of a registry editor to find and delete all those 'enhanced' registry entries the uninstaller may leave behind.
My 'Enhanced' thought/explanation of these kinds of crapware.
--
Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less |
|
Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC | The thought of "value added" comes to mind fishmaster  |
|
