Smokey Bear
veritas odium parit
Premium
join:2008-03-15
Annie's Pub
| reply to La Luna
Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars
said by La Luna  :said by GroovyPhoenx : I have to disagree with this statement, in most cases the person is not fully aware they are installing this, if you use a "standard" install versus a "custom" install then most times these toolbars will be installed. (Its one reason experienced users should use custom) I usually use custom because I want to tell software where to go (tools under C:\tools, games under c:\games etc etc.) Agree, most of the non-experienced users will think it is OK to hit the "standard" install button. Companies know this behavior very well and misuse this knowledge in a shameless way.
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La Luna
Surviving Ashraful
Premium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
clubs:
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| reply to GroovyPhoenx
said by GroovyPhoenx :said by La Luna :No Google toolbar even offered with the last Sun Java update here. *shrug* While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway. If it gets installed because someone didn't uncheck a box, they weren't paying attention. I have to disagree with this statement, in most cases the person is not fully aware they are installing this, if you use a "standard" install versus a "custom" install then most times these toolbars will be installed. (Its one reason experienced users should use custom) I usually use custom because I want to tell software where to go (tools under C:\tools, games under c:\games etc etc.) Point being default installs will not show up the toolbars in a lot of cases (Adobe for one) Hence, the reason why I said people don't pay attention, they install stuff willy nilly, as fast as they can.
Not *all* software has a "custom" option anyway. In most cases the toolbar install option is right there in your face.
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10,729 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11~~TEAM DISCOVERY
Can't feel you anymore, don't need you anymore, don't believe you anymore, I don't need you anymore
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Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
| reply to Name Game
one small benefit of the these bundled toolbars is that it serves as a warning of what might happen when not looking at what is being installed. This time asktoolbar next time...
Of course if these toolbars were such value for money they would be opt in rather than opt out with people purposely selecting to install them. Instead they take advantage of human nature.
On the other hand I can't and don't begrudge some freeware developers gaining some financial profit from bundling the toolbars most of which are easily and cleanly removable if installed in error or in oversight
Cudni
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"Mercifully, he hit him with the soft end of the pistol."
Help yourself so God can help you.
Microsoft MVP, 2006-2007 |
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Smokey Bear
veritas odium parit
Premium
join:2008-03-15
Annie's Pub
3 edits | reply to Name Game
Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars
Hi folks, interesting read 
I will bring some brightness in the darkness, therefore i will introduce myself: the name is Smokey, author of the article "The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars". |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to TheWickerMan
said by TheWickerMan :. . I came cross something like this years ago with some kids' game I bought for my son when he was still little. During the installation, it asked me if I wanted to install something called "brodcast" (which I would later find out was also known as DssAgent.) The vague despcription of what it was for sounded like it just wanted to track my internet activity, so naturally, I chose "no." I was still on dialup at the time and wasn't using a firewall, but when I switched to cable, I installed one. Guess what it caught trying to connect to the internet? The same software I specifically told it NOT to install. Just to make sure I wasn't mistaken, I installed the game on another machine, made sure I chose "no" when it asked to install the other junk, and checked again. Sure enough, it installed it anyway. The technical term for that is 'spyware'.
It usually doesn't take 'no' quietly for an answer-- or sometimes even for an answer at all, as you apparently found out.
Sounds like that 'game' was nothing more than an excuse to install the spyware, as any legitimate purveyor of software would not allow that type of installation behavior.
A bit devious or deceptive is one thing, flat-out lying or trickery quite another.
And why am I not surprised it was a game implementing this spyware . . . ? |
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TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| reply to Name Game
I find pre-checked toolbar installations in free products annoying, and ones in paid products inexcusable. But even those aren't as bad as ones that install the crap regardless of what you choose.
While this one wasn't a toolbar, I came cross something like this years ago with some kids' game I bought for my son when he was still little. During the installation, it asked me if I wanted to install something called "brodcast" (which I would later find out was also known as DssAgent.) The vague despcription of what it was for sounded like it just wanted to track my internet activity, so naturally, I chose "no." I was still on dialup at the time and wasn't using a firewall, but when I switched to cable, I installed one. Guess what it caught trying to connect to the internet? The same software I specifically told it NOT to install.
Just to make sure I wasn't mistaken, I installed the game on another machine, made sure I chose "no" when it asked to install the other junk, and checked again. Sure enough, it installed it anyway. |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
 ·Verizon Online DSL
|  reply to Name Game
Interesting info.
Usually I download the full JRE package and manually install from desktop except this last update I allowed it to update from the program.
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"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact". - Sherlock Holmes |
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Thug21
Just Chillin'
Premium
join:2005-08-21 | reply to Name Game
Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars
Thank you for explaining that. I was wondering where the heck this googlebar was (I'd never seen it) but now I understand why - I always use java.sun.com.
Instinct!  |
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Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
North Myrtle Beach, SC
| reply to Mele20
java.com mainly serves the consumers. The java installer from java.com includes optional component (google toolbar).
java.sun.com mainly serves the developers or ISVs. The developers and ISVs are not required to redistribute google toolbar with their applications.
the difference is..downloads:
The file from Java.net was named:
jre-6u5-windows-i586-p-s.exe (MD5: a53f78098e4991ff79fe808408dd3968)
the -s contains the .mst files that have the google tool bar stuff in it..
The file from Sun.com was named:
jre-6u5-windows-i586-p.exe (MD5: 8bd61406f2a4745230459f8dfb83a552)
it has no -s and has no .mst file.
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to dadkins
You'd have to be stupid to install Firefox from Real Player. I have never seen Fx want to install Google Toolbar. But then I use Fx 1.5 from long ago on my main machine and on this guest machine I am using Fx 2.0 beta 1. On my other guest machine, I have Fx 3 beta 2 and no Google toolbar was pushed in my face. I put beta 4 on briefly and no Google toolbar was offered. I had something much worse happen. On the Firefox 1.5 install, on the guest machine that also has Fx 3 beta2, I had Mozilla force an upgrade. I was furious. I had the box unchecked but Mozilla forced it anyway. THAT is the sort of thing that makes me extremely angry. Not the stupid toolbars that I can decline.
I saw Sun Java wanting to install a toolbar. I no longer upgrade Sun Java and I have it on only one guest machine and use it for speed tests only. If my ISP used some other type of speed test, Sun Java would be gone from my computers. One reason I don't use Flash Player is because it wants to install a toolbar. I don't trust any software that wants to install toolbars even if I can uncheck the box. Who knows what that software is doing behind my back? Same with Fx.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Verizon FIOS
| reply to AB
said by AB :Slimeball marketing tactics designed to snare the unwary are how goods and services are purveyed in this country-- throughout many parts of the world, for that matter. It's even got a name now.
»www.npr.org/templates/story/stor···17898418 |
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Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | reply to Name Game
Winamp |
Three prechecked items.
Edit* Changed as to add |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| reply to Name Game
Yep. Damned pre checked tolbars and unwanted software... |
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Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN
| reply to hayc59
said by hayc59 :Money is the root of all 'evil' ... I think it's "The love of money..."
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kustomerservice.net |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to momus_98
said by momus_98 :. . I observed some friends install software and most people tend to just blast through the process. They click "OK", "Yes", "Sure", "Whatever" to every dialog box that comes along...and then wonder why they suddenly have five toolbars taking up most of the browser window. This is news?
The same people who who click "OK", "Yes", "Sure", "Whatever" to every dialogue box that comes along all the time-- regardless of what they're doing.
Because if clicking a couple of "OK" pop-ups or downloading a 'new codec' is what they need to do to watch that pr0n video, then that's what they're going to do. And little need to examine more closely or think first, eh?
I wonder why the 'MonaRonaDona' thread here currently has in excess of 39,000 views? Maybe because the pop-up must either be telling a true fact, or it simply needs to be clicked out of the way.
That and a little good old-fashioned social engineering, anyway.
And I'm bundling my post with a request to everybody to donate blood if you can, and don't forget to have those pets spayed or neutered.
The reading of this post constitutes your agreement.
Thank you. |
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momus_98
join:2002-09-10
Pflugerville, TX
| reply to Name Game
Personally, I feel that most pre-checked boxes on web forms, install apps, and other things should always be opt-in, not opt-out.
In other words, the user shouldn't have to go through the hassle of unchecking certain, craftily hidden boxes. For example, during the install of Real Player, it says in very big, bold letters "MAKE REAL PLAYER THE DEFAULT PLAYER FOR EVERYTHING" and in tiny print there's a box marked "Let me choose file associations".
Or Quicktime's highly annoying insistence on bundling iTunes with a Quicktime update or patch. I don't even own (and will never buy) an iPod or related device and I do not want or need iTunes. It's especially egregious when it's bundled with a critical security patch. To me, security patches are holy and should be offered up separately. Bundling during a patch install is a sin.
I observed some friends install software and most people tend to just blast through the process. They click "OK", "Yes", "Sure", "Whatever" to every dialog box that comes along...and then wonder why they suddenly have five toolbars taking up most of the browser window.
Bundling may not be malicious and I find the Google toolbar to be quite useful, but let me choose to install that software separately. Any other manner is just sneaky.
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"War does not determine who is right; only who is left." - Bertrand Russell
"Patriots always talk of dying for their country and never of killing for their
country." - Bertrand Russell |
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Caution real one
@rr.com
| reply to Caution Original
said by Caution Original :
Do you think anybody gives a shit ?
Actually being a registarded member is very, very, very important to a lot of people. I am ashamed of my points of view, and have chosen to remain anonymous because of what all these strangers are going to think about me !
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Caution Original
@rr.com
| reply to Caution real one
said by Caution real one :
...remember each person has their own style of writing.
Why is that something that needs to be remembered ? Why did you feel it important to point out that you are actually registered ? Do you think anybody gives a shit ? |
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