The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars in Security http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20139897 en Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:30:35 EDT Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:30:35 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20169318 Smokey Bear :
said by La Luna See Profile :

said by GroovyPhoenx See Profile :
I have to disagree with this statement, in most cases the person is not fully aware they are installing this, if you use a "standard" install versus a "custom" install then most times these toolbars will be installed. (Its one reason experienced users should use custom) I usually use custom because I want to tell software where to go (tools under C:\tools, games under c:\games etc etc.)
Agree, most of the non-experienced users will think it is OK to hit the "standard" install button. Companies know this behavior very well and misuse this knowledge in a shameless way.
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ASAP Site Member »asap.maddoktor2.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20169318 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:32:32 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20169276 La Luna :
said by GroovyPhoenx See Profile :

said by La Luna See Profile :

No Google toolbar even offered with the last Sun Java update here. *shrug*

While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway.

If it gets installed because someone didn't uncheck a box, they weren't paying attention.
I have to disagree with this statement, in most cases the person is not fully aware they are installing this, if you use a "standard" install versus a "custom" install then most times these toolbars will be installed. (Its one reason experienced users should use custom) I usually use custom because I want to tell software where to go (tools under C:\tools, games under c:\games etc etc.)

Point being default installs will not show up the toolbars in a lot of cases (Adobe for one)
Hence, the reason why I said people don't pay attention, they install stuff willy nilly, as fast as they can.

Not *all* software has a "custom" option anyway. In most cases the toolbar install option is right there in your face.
--
10,729 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11~~TEAM DISCOVERY
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20169276 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 12:20:13 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20169016 Cudni : one small benefit of the these bundled toolbars is that it serves as a warning of what might happen when not looking at what is being installed. This time asktoolbar next time...

Of course if these toolbars were such value for money they would be opt in rather than opt out with people purposely selecting to install them. Instead they take advantage of human nature.
On the other hand I can't and don't begrudge some freeware developers gaining some financial profit from bundling the toolbars most of which are easily and cleanly removable if installed in error or in oversight

Cudni
--
"Mercifully, he hit him with the soft end of the pistol."
Help yourself so God can help you.
Microsoft MVP, 2006-2007]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20169016 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 11:26:25 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20168497 Smokey Bear : Hi folks, interesting read ;)

I will bring some brightness in the darkness, therefore i will introduce myself: the name is Smokey, author of the article "The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20168497 Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:14:23 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20153967 AB :
said by TheWickerMan See Profile :

. . I came cross something like this years ago with some kids' game I bought for my son when he was still little. During the installation, it asked me if I wanted to install something called "brodcast" (which I would later find out was also known as DssAgent.) The vague despcription of what it was for sounded like it just wanted to track my internet activity, so naturally, I chose "no." I was still on dialup at the time and wasn't using a firewall, but when I switched to cable, I installed one. Guess what it caught trying to connect to the internet? The same software I specifically told it NOT to install.

Just to make sure I wasn't mistaken, I installed the game on another machine, made sure I chose "no" when it asked to install the other junk, and checked again. Sure enough, it installed it anyway.
The technical term for that is 'spyware'. ;)
It usually doesn't take 'no' quietly for an answer-- or sometimes even for an answer at all, as you apparently found out.
Sounds like that 'game' was nothing more than an excuse to install the spyware, as any legitimate purveyor of software would not allow that type of installation behavior.
A bit devious or deceptive is one thing, flat-out lying or trickery quite another.

And why am I not surprised it was a game implementing this spyware . . . ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20153967 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:46:11 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20153044 TheWickerMan : I find pre-checked toolbar installations in free products annoying, and ones in paid products inexcusable. But even those aren't as bad as ones that install the crap regardless of what you choose.

While this one wasn't a toolbar, I came cross something like this years ago with some kids' game I bought for my son when he was still little. During the installation, it asked me if I wanted to install something called "brodcast" (which I would later find out was also known as DssAgent.) The vague despcription of what it was for sounded like it just wanted to track my internet activity, so naturally, I chose "no." I was still on dialup at the time and wasn't using a firewall, but when I switched to cable, I installed one. Guess what it caught trying to connect to the internet? The same software I specifically told it NOT to install.

Just to make sure I wasn't mistaken, I installed the game on another machine, made sure I chose "no" when it asked to install the other junk, and checked again. Sure enough, it installed it anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20153044 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:10:20 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149281 Grail Knight : Interesting info.

Usually I download the full JRE package and manually install from desktop except this last update I allowed it to update from the program.
--
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact". - Sherlock Holmes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149281 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:18:41 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149268 Thug21 : Thank you for explaining that. I was wondering where the heck this googlebar was (I'd never seen it) but now I understand why - I always use java.sun.com.

Instinct! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149268 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:14:56 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149230 Name Game : java.com mainly serves the consumers. The java installer from java.com includes optional component (google toolbar).

java.sun.com mainly serves the developers or ISVs. The developers and ISVs are not required to redistribute google toolbar with their applications.

the difference is..downloads:

The file from Java.net was named:
jre-6u5-windows-i586-p-s.exe (MD5: a53f78098e4991ff79fe808408dd3968)

the -s contains the .mst files that have the google tool bar stuff in it..

The file from Sun.com was named:
jre-6u5-windows-i586-p.exe (MD5: 8bd61406f2a4745230459f8dfb83a552)

it has no -s and has no .mst file.
--
Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149230 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:09:43 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149035 Mele20 : You'd have to be stupid to install Firefox from Real Player. I have never seen Fx want to install Google Toolbar. But then I use Fx 1.5 from long ago on my main machine and on this guest machine I am using Fx 2.0 beta 1. On my other guest machine, I have Fx 3 beta 2 and no Google toolbar was pushed in my face. I put beta 4 on briefly and no Google toolbar was offered. I had something much worse happen. On the Firefox 1.5 install, on the guest machine that also has Fx 3 beta2, I had Mozilla force an upgrade. I was furious. I had the box unchecked but Mozilla forced it anyway. THAT is the sort of thing that makes me extremely angry. Not the stupid toolbars that I can decline.

I saw Sun Java wanting to install a toolbar. I no longer upgrade Sun Java and I have it on only one guest machine and use it for speed tests only. If my ISP used some other type of speed test, Sun Java would be gone from my computers. One reason I don't use Flash Player is because it wants to install a toolbar. I don't trust any software that wants to install toolbars even if I can uncheck the box. Who knows what that software is doing behind my back? Same with Fx.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20149035 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:40:51 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20147860 dave :
said by AB See Profile :

Slimeball marketing tactics designed to snare the unwary are how goods and services are purveyed in this country-- throughout many parts of the world, for that matter.
It's even got a name now.

»www.npr.org/templates/story/stor···17898418]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20147860 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:20:11 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20147119 Grail Knight : Might as well add Winamp to that list.
Three prechecked items.

Edit* Changed as to add

Winamp
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20147119 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:03:29 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20146707 dadkins : Yep. Damned pre checked tolbars and unwanted software...
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20146707 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:51:21 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20146320 Chuckles :
said by hayc59 See Profile :

Money is the root of all 'evil'
...
I think it's "The love of money..."
--
kustomerservice.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20146320 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:44:01 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20146079 AB :
said by momus_98 See Profile :

. . I observed some friends install software and most people tend to just blast through the process. They click "OK", "Yes", "Sure", "Whatever" to every dialog box that comes along...and then wonder why they suddenly have five toolbars taking up most of the browser window.
This is news?
The same people who who click "OK", "Yes", "Sure", "Whatever" to every dialogue box that comes along all the time-- regardless of what they're doing.
Because if clicking a couple of "OK" pop-ups or downloading a 'new codec' is what they need to do to watch that pr0n video, then that's what they're going to do. And little need to examine more closely or think first, eh?
I wonder why the 'MonaRonaDona' thread here currently has in excess of 39,000 views? Maybe because the pop-up must either be telling a true fact, or it simply needs to be clicked out of the way.
That and a little good old-fashioned social engineering, anyway.

And I'm bundling my post with a request to everybody to donate blood if you can, and don't forget to have those pets spayed or neutered.
The reading of this post constitutes your agreement.

Thank you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20146079 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:07:35 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20145050 momus_98 : Personally, I feel that most pre-checked boxes on web forms, install apps, and other things should always be opt-in, not opt-out.

In other words, the user shouldn't have to go through the hassle of unchecking certain, craftily hidden boxes. For example, during the install of Real Player, it says in very big, bold letters "MAKE REAL PLAYER THE DEFAULT PLAYER FOR EVERYTHING" and in tiny print there's a box marked "Let me choose file associations".

Or Quicktime's highly annoying insistence on bundling iTunes with a Quicktime update or patch. I don't even own (and will never buy) an iPod or related device and I do not want or need iTunes. It's especially egregious when it's bundled with a critical security patch. To me, security patches are holy and should be offered up separately. Bundling during a patch install is a sin.

I observed some friends install software and most people tend to just blast through the process. They click "OK", "Yes", "Sure", "Whatever" to every dialog box that comes along...and then wonder why they suddenly have five toolbars taking up most of the browser window.

Bundling may not be malicious and I find the Google toolbar to be quite useful, but let me choose to install that software separately. Any other manner is just sneaky.
--
"War does not determine who is right; only who is left." - Bertrand Russell
"Patriots always talk of dying for their country and never of killing for their
country." - Bertrand Russell]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20145050 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:26:22 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144741 anon :
said by Caution Original :

Do you think anybody gives a shit ?
Actually being a registarded member is very, very, very important to a lot of people. I am ashamed of my points of view, and have chosen to remain anonymous because of what all these strangers are going to think about me !
:(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144741 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:06:42 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144735 anon :
said by Caution real one :

...remember each person has their own style of writing.
Why is that something that needs to be remembered ? Why did you feel it important to point out that you are actually registered ? Do you think anybody gives a shit ?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144735 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:02:10 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144721 anon :

Caution Wannabe

Ok so you took my handle but no big deal cause I am actually a member here just to lazy to login right now.
Have fun but remember each person has their own style of writing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144721 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:44:54 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144709 anon :
said by Caution :

I refuse to use Firefox because of the toolbar issue .
Oh, FireFlox users all know it is bloat ware. Funny how everybody likes to complain about the problems that other people are having. Use Opera, it is not bloated, and all of it's extra features are configurable and can be turned off if you so desire, and it has no search engine affiliates, so you are forced to go to Google dot commm to do yer searches :(.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144709 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:31:54 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144683 anon :

Ok I am totally against toolbars, in fact, would junk a computer before using a toolbar on it.
One thing I do find strange. the open source community is making millions of dollars by bundling google toolbar with Firefox but I have yet to see or hear even one person complain of the bundling the toolbar with Firefox.
I refuse to use Firefox because of the toolbar issue .

But any Firefox Users who post in this Topic against Toolbars, well ?

And of course Internet Explore has it's "search pages'. Which could be consider a form of Toolbar in some respect. An I do use it. Guess its time to junk the computer.

ok, so its a slow night. Gotta cut me a little slack on this post.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144683 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:09:56 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144151 NanDog :
said by AB See Profile :

Don't forget to vote! ;) :D
Sure wish I had other choices than politicians! :)
--
See ya across the Rainbow Bridge, my good and faithful friend!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144151 Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:05:17 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144125 AB :
said by NanDog See Profile :

said by AB See Profile :

Slimeball marketing tactics designed to snare the unwary are how goods and services are purveyed in this country-- throughout many parts of the world, for that matter.
Sadly, you're correct! :huh:
We could probably toss politicians marketing themselves in there, too.

Don't forget to vote! ;) :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144125 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:59:21 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144100 NanDog :
said by AB See Profile :

said by NanDog See Profile :

. . it just seems to be a slimeball marketing tactic which hopes to snare the unwary!
Slimeball marketing tactics designed to snare the unwary are how goods and services are purveyed in this country-- throughout many parts of the world, for that matter.
Sadly, you're correct! :huh:
--
See ya across the Rainbow Bridge, my good and faithful friend!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20144100 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:54:50 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20143986 AB :
said by NanDog See Profile :

. . it just seems to be a slimeball marketing tactic which hopes to snare the unwary!
Slimeball marketing tactics designed to snare the unwary are how goods and services are purveyed in this country-- throughout many parts of the world, for that matter.

If Anheuser-Busch told you their beer had the identical smooth, savory tang to it as the urine of an aged camel, they probably wouldn't sell as much beer. ;)
Probably.

said by fishmaster See Profile :

. . These "tool bars" are designed to 'enhance the customers computing & online experiences' How, you may ask? This software 'enhances' computing experience by 'enhancing' the CPU cycles, memory usage & not limited to the 'enhancement of browser settings, security settings and possible file settings and/or permissions. This software also 'enhances' the online experiences by, but not limited to, 'enhances' the collection of profiling/personal data for the copier/designer of that 'tool bar', 3rd parties & affiliates. In turn this 'enhances' the revenue of those 3rd parties and affiliates by the delivering of 'enhanced personable ads' to 'excite' the users experiences at the 'enhanced' expense of the user by creating 'enhanced' bandwidth, memory & CPU usage. . . .

. . My 'Enhanced' thought/explanation of these kinds of crapware.
Thank you for enhancing my user experience knowledge through your enhanced user experiences with their user experience enhancing software.

I now have a plan of attack-- enhance, remove, repeat.
. . Or maybe that's their plan.
At any rate, something gets enhanced somewhere, and that must be a good thing.
At least it sounds like a good thing, and that's important all by itself.

I also get e-mails letting me know about enhancement opportunities. Not for software, though-- I think 'hardware' is more what they have in mind.
Then I can get out of the pool whistling, or something.
What's not to like about that? :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20143986 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:34:50 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20143537 sailor : I hate things like that which are already checked off by default..I, for one, am not very computer savvy but I know to watch for them but what about the thousands of people everyday being brand new to using a computer and the internet.

Like how many read their entire new vehicle owners manual. Not everyone does..Imagine seeing the gas gauge move towards empty and you pull into your regular gas station which is a Shell for your very first fill up in your brand spanking new car only to find when you lift the gas cap lid there is a cover over where the gas pump nozzle goes and this cover blocks you from putting the gas pump nozzle in and a little tag says:

"Oops, sorry, only Exxon Mobil brand gasoline allowed in this vehicle"

**** Please refer to owners manual on how to allow other brands of gas into your vehicle.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20143537 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:11:54 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20143345 EGeezer : Google "enhanced user experience" and see the marketing crap spewed. I think if they can't articulate their product's advantages or don't want you to know the particulars, they resort to this buzz-phrase.

When I see vendor blurbs touting "enhanced user/computing/online experience", I get a feeling like I'm being gagged with a spoon while my pocket is being picked and a screaming warehouse salesman is plugging six rooms of furniture for $179.
--
Mayors of New York come from nowhere and go nowhere.
Wallace Sayre]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20143345 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:41:20 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142965 Name Game : The thought of "value added" comes to mind fishmaster :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142965 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:35:19 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142824 fishmaster : The idea of the pre-checked (other software) options is simply nothing more than an convenient, pre-configured, 'enhanced' install set instructions, designed to 'enhance' the users install experiences with other 'user experience enhancing software'. Some of these 'other software' may be, but not limited to, a tool/help bar that may have been copied... I mean created by certain other reputable 3rd parties from non reputable 3rd parties.
These "tool bars" are designed to 'enhance the customers computing & online experiences' How, you may ask? This software 'enhances' computing experience by 'enhancing' the CPU cycles, memory usage & not limited to the 'enhancement of browser settings, security settings and possible file settings and/or permissions. This software also 'enhances' the online experiences by, but not limited to, 'enhances' the collection of profiling/personal data for the copier/designer of that 'tool bar', 3rd parties & affiliates. In turn this 'enhances' the revenue of those 3rd parties and affiliates by the delivering of 'enhanced personable ads' to 'excite' the users experiences at the 'enhanced' expense of the user by creating 'enhanced' bandwidth, memory & CPU usage.
Should the user decide to uninstall the 'enhancing' software, it should be noted that the uninstall process itself will 'enhance' the users proficiency in using the add/remove programs in the Control Panel, search & Directory listing (because we may not have it listed in the ad/remove programs and/or the uninstaller may not delete or uninstall everything in its entirety. This will also 'enhance' the users proficiency in the use and search of a registry editor to find and delete all those 'enhanced' registry entries the uninstaller may leave behind.

My 'Enhanced' thought/explanation of these kinds of crapware.
--
Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142824 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:13:01 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142770 NanDog : Well, at least I now feel a little more justified in my posts about the Java/Google Toolbar option in this thread: »Sun Java JRE6 Update 5 released about the Google Toolbar option being seen and checked as default!

I know it's more marketing than anything but I really hate that the consumer has to choose to opt out of something as opposed to choosing a feature!

At least to me, it just seems to be a slimeball marketing tactic which hopes to snare the unwary!

When I go to the grocery store I purchase exactly what's on my list. I don't need to "un-buy" what I don't want!

My 2¢!
--
See ya across the Rainbow Bridge, my good and faithful friend!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142770 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:03:20 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142620 chachazz : Thus, exists the Dell De-Crapifier & The PC Decrapifier ;)
--
Gladiator Security Forum: www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20142620 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:33:22 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141683 mikenolan7 : At least with the software you download/install yourself, there is a box to check or not check. There's so much grabage (the hottest internet meme, I hear) pre-installed on machines you don't build yourself. My latest laptop came preloaded with so much bloatware, I'm surprised it didn't make it heavier. Use of the recovery disk puts you right back where you were, uninstalling toolbars, "trial" software that costs $300 to continue using (I assume once they get you hooked), and some things that I still haven't figured out what they are. Not to mention an extra partition that would be difficult to find, if you weren't looking for such a thing. And there's no box to unselect to not install that stuff.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141683 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:47:43 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141463 AB :
said by dp See Profile :

. . I agree with EGeezer See Profile's and La Luna See Profile's comments:

said by EGeezer See Profile

Although I'd prefer the boxes be unchecked, I have no major objections to legitimate free applications getting a few bucks as long as the boxes are easy to see and clearly described.
said by La Luna See Profile

While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway.
Exactamente.
And put me down for a second (or third, or fourth) to that emotion.

I'd prefer it weren't there to begin with, but it is.
I'd prefer to win several hundred million in the lottery, too. Oh well.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141463 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:11:40 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141399 Doctor Four : Add Intervideo's WinDVD 8 to that list. It installs both
the Google Toolbar and Google Desktop Search, and throws
in RealPlayer and Quicktime to boot. Of course all four
of these are checked by default.

It's one thing when toolbars and foistware (everything
installs it) are bundled into free products; it's quite
another and IMO crosses the line when they are bundled
into paid/commercial software and even hardware.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141399 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:58:14 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141248 GroovyPhoenx :
said by La Luna See Profile :

No Google toolbar even offered with the last Sun Java update here. *shrug*

While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway.

If it gets installed because someone didn't uncheck a box, they weren't paying attention.
I have to disagree with this statement, in most cases the person is not fully aware they are installing this, if you use a "standard" install versus a "custom" install then most times these toolbars will be installed. (Its one reason experienced users should use custom) I usually use custom because I want to tell software where to go (tools under C:\tools, games under c:\games etc etc.)

Point being default installs will not show up the toolbars in a lot of cases (Adobe for one)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141248 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:33:01 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141074 dp : The ever popular Irfanview can be added to the list. Google Toolbar and Desktop Search are pre-selected for install.
I agree with EGeezer See Profile's and La Luna See Profile's comments:

said by EGeezer See Profile

Although I'd prefer the boxes be unchecked, I have no major objections to legitimate free applications getting a few bucks as long as the boxes are easy to see and clearly described.
said by La Luna See Profile

While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway.

--
Microsoft MVP, 2004-2008]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141074 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:02:53 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141069 Name Game :
said by jaykaykay See Profile :

"grabage"? :Love the word even if it wasn't intended. It fits perfectly with all these toolbars etc. They are there for the unknowing to grab and certainly do add garbage to one's computer if one isn't savvy enough to uncheck the downloads.
You have my permission to use that word again since I was not scratching in private.
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Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20141069 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:02:29 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140781 jaykaykay : "grabage"? :Love the word even if it wasn't intended. It fits perfectly with all these toolbars etc. They are there for the unknowing to grab and certainly do add garbage to one's computer if one isn't savvy enough to uncheck the downloads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140781 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:11:08 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140648 ModemHead : Just installed a Gigabyte motherboard and the drivers CD that came with it offered to install the Yahoo Toolbar (pre-checked) along with the drivers for the chipset, sound, ethernet, etc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140648 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:46:31 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140561 Name Game :
said by Corrine See Profile :

With regard to the Google toolbar offered with Sun Java, I have learned that this is old news. See »weblogs.java.net/blog/kgh/archiv···the.html I believe it is still offered just from the www.java.com if the user does not have the Google toolbar already installed. I do not know from personal experience as Java is not installed on my home computer, nor are there any toolbars -- Google or otherwise.
It certainly is still offered see this post

»Re: Sun Java JRE6 Update 5 released

and if you go into the .mst file and break it down you will see the code that is there for the google tool bar and other grabage...some of it download server specific ;)

This you will find for google stuff

ht tp://toolbar.google.com/partners/terms

ht tp://desktop.google.com/eula.html"[ProgramFilesFolder]

ht tp://desktop.google.com/privacypolicy.html

ht tp://www.google.com/support/toolbar/?quick=privacy&v=4.0&hl

In that .MST file

Won't be long before Sun Java sells more space in the .mst since they are giving everyone free coffee in their opinion.

C:\WINDOWS\Local Settings\Application Data
You may find sub-folders with {long-unique-names} containing an .MSI file named something like:
"J2SE Runtime Environment 5.0 Update 1.msi"
and also an .MST file named after the language version installed. English is usually referenced by "1033", so the file would be named "1033.MST".

These .MSI files are created when you install the Java Runtime, and are the setup instruction files used to "reinstall" or "repair" the installed program. .MSI files are the files used by the latest "Windows Installer" (msiexec.exe), and aren't unique to Sun Java. The folder where they are copied to is unique, because others are copied to C:\Windows\Installer by a random name. The .MST file is known as a "transform" file that is used to provide additional instructions for the installation.
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»www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140561 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:34:48 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140451 hayc59 : Now I see why I could not find the
info on this matter!!!
@ EGeezer, you make some good valid points]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140451 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:09:50 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140416 EGeezer : I've noticed this trend too, but hadn't considered it more than a minor item. I'm conditioned to look for such things, but many users aren't. I'd be upset if it were part of any auto-updates that are pushed out (for example AVG's almost daily downloads).

For a small network admin where user permissions are in the "power user" range, it can be a PITA when users download flash and get toolbars then mention that it "suddenly showed up" and they want to get rid of it. A quick "how to remove" email to the users and caution to read and uncheck optional features usually takes care of this.

Although I'd prefer the boxes be unchecked, I have no major objections to legitimate free applications getting a few bucks as long as the boxes are easy to see and clearly described.

I'm more upset when applications default to "stealing" default file associations from other installed applications.

EDIT - J, I think Corrine means to say the information in the open blog was published there was originally in a private channel. (I'm assuming the information was either clearly copyrighted or otherwise limited by her in the original publishing.)

I don't think she was placing blame on you, since you'd obviously have no way to know it was copyrighted material.

Now if she didn't restrict or copyright the material, it's fair game, and another case of "what goes on in the internet, stays in the internet - forever."

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Mayors of New York come from nowhere and go nowhere.
Wallace Sayre]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140416 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:03:00 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140403 Name Game :
said by Corrine See Profile :

Although the general information is public about software including toolbars, the list I compiled was posted in a private discussion in a private forum and published without permission.
That is sad..but if you really want it private..then will make sure it does not happen again since you are claiming rights to the info posted at an open blog.
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Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/ Missing Kids »www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140403 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:59:02 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140379 Corrine : Although the general information is public about software including toolbars, the list I compiled was posted in a private discussion in a private forum and published without permission.

With regard to the Google toolbar offered with Sun Java, I have learned that this is old news. See »weblogs.java.net/blog/kgh/archiv···the.html I believe it is still offered just from the www.java.com if the user does not have the Google toolbar already installed. I do not know from personal experience as Java is not installed on my home computer, nor are there any toolbars -- Google or otherwise.
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Visit the Security Garden, Where Everything is Coming up Roses"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140379 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:52:51 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140301 hayc59 : Money is the root of all 'evil'
and it seems to be the only reason you would in-corporate
that crap into some of the finer things in life ;)
seems I did not see this list or thread?? where is it posted??? I do see the one at Smokeys 'Blog'

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140301 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:39:35 EDT Re: The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140213 La Luna : No Google toolbar even offered with the last Sun Java update here. *shrug*

While I understand the *conflict* of security apps wanting to install toolbars, and the fact that install is checked by default in some cases, as long as they don't install them without user knowledge at all, it doesn't really bother me. A LOT of people use, at the very least, the google and yahoo toolbars anyway.

If it gets installed because someone didn't uncheck a box, they weren't paying attention.

From that list, I use CCleaner, ThreatFire, Sun Java, Daemon Tools and Zone Alarm, and have never had a toolbar installed inadvertently.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20140213 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:26:06 EDT The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20139897 Name Game : The tendency of (pre-checked) toolbars

At the moment there is heavy discussion on various boards alleging that Grisoft AVG have included the Yahoo Toolbar with their new Security Suite.
Corrine, a well-known MS-MVP Consumer Security gave on SpywareBeware! an (incomplete) survey about programs that include (pre-checked) toolbars:

- Adobe Flash: Google Toolbar
- AVG 8.0: Yahoo Toolbar (Included with Linkshield)
- CCleaner (full versions only): Yahoo Toolbar
- Daemon Tools (free version): SaveNow Toolbar (disguised as Dameon Tools Search Bar)
- Nero Burning Rom: Ask Toolbar
- PC Tools Firewall Plus: Google Toolbar + PC Tools ThreatFire Free
- Sun Java: Google Toolbar
- Spyware Terminator: Crawler Toolbar (may also change start page)
- Webroot Spysweeper[/b]: Ask Toolbar
- ZoneAlarm (free version): Ask Toolbar

Link removed re: Corrine post below.
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Missing Kids
»www.missingkids.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,20139897 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:19:23 EDT