Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| reply to neufuse
Re: not every HD channel deserves to be in HD... but
I wish *EVERY* channel was in HD - even the ones originally with SD sources. Why? Compression!
SD can be converted to HD and look much better than the standard SD channels we get today - because the SD signal we all receive now is very compressed/over-compressed. Take an *original* (uncompressed) 480 source and upconvert to 720/1080 and it looks much better than the same channel broadcast through traditional SD means.
I have DirecTV HD, and yes while some channels (not DTV's fault) do end up in stretch-o-vision when they convert SD 4:3 to HD 16:9 most channels have a good fix: They do a quasi-zoom so instead of huge black bars on the side you get little thin ones, and then they slightly crop the top/bottom of the image. This, in my opinion, is by far the best way to convert between the two formats. My example to illustrate this would be the Science Channel - How Its Made. That show looks extremely sharp and crisp in HD even though it's only a 480 source converted exactly as I describe above. But when you switch to the SD broadcast version the quality degrades horribly.
I won't even go into the differences between Cable/OTA Mpeg2 HD vs DTV's Mpeg4 HD. I'll just say the latter is far superior to the point where during the first Giants/Patriots game that was triple-cast on NFL Network (DTV Mpeg4), CBS(OTA Mpeg2), and NBC (OTA Mpeg2) the Mpeg2 was just laughable (major motion artifacts that completely disappeared on Mpeg4). |
|
PaulHikeS2
join:2003-03-06
Merrimack, NH
| said by Jerm  :I have DirecTV HD, and yes while some channels (not DTV's fault) do end up in stretch-o-vision when they convert SD 4:3 to HD 16:9 most channels have a good fix: They do a quasi-zoom so instead of huge black bars on the side you get little thin ones, and then they slightly crop the top/bottom of the image. This, in my opinion, is by far the best way to convert between the two formats. Certainly better than pure stretchovision (like TNT). I prefer the format not be changed at all. If it's shot in 4:3, that's how I want to see it. No distortion, no cropping. Of course I have a DLP TV, so I don't have to worry about the side bars "burning in".
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? |
|
krichek
join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA
| reply to Jerm
said by Jerm : I won't even go into the differences between Cable/OTA Mpeg2 HD vs DTV's Mpeg4 HD. I'll just say the latter is far superior to the point where during the first Giants/Patriots game that was triple-cast on NFL Network (DTV Mpeg4), CBS(OTA Mpeg2), and NBC (OTA Mpeg2) the Mpeg2 was just laughable (major motion artifacts that completely disappeared on Mpeg4). Sorry but that's not always the case. In alot of areas DTV gets there local HD channels from OTA so in those markets it's impossible for them to be better than OTA since the source is the same. |
|
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
 ·Comcast
| reply to Jerm
said by Jerm :I wish *EVERY* channel was in HD - even the ones originally with SD sources. Why? Compression! SD can be converted to HD and look much better than the standard SD channels we get today - because the SD signal we all receive now is very compressed/over-compressed. Be careful what you wish for. Comcast is starting to squash 3 HD channels into 1 QAM channel using "real time compression". Consensus so far has been that many of the channels are near unwatchable for certain programs, causing pixelation and even frame drops (eg: SciFi-HD). |
|
PaulHikeS2
join:2003-03-06
Merrimack, NH
| said by Morac :Be careful what you wish for. Comcast is starting to squash 3 HD channels into 1 QAM channel using "real time compression". Consensus so far has been that many of the channels are near unwatchable for certain programs, causing pixelation and even frame drops (eg: SciFi-HD). This surprises me. No disrespect intended, but what's your source for this info?
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? |
|
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
edit:
March 10th, @05:43PM
| said by PaulHikeS2 :This surprises me. No disrespect intended, but what's your source for this info? Here's a CED article about it. Scroll down to the part where it talks about "IMAGINE IMPROVED HD OFFERINGS".
Here's a thread over on the TiVo forums about people complaining after the compression was implemented. Here's a video of it in implementation. |
|
RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | reply to PaulHikeS2
It's true. One of my TVs is showing 3 "HD" channels in one QAM stream in SW Florida. The picture quality is certainly not HD.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. |
|
PaulHikeS2
join:2003-03-06
Merrimack, NH | reply to Morac
Thanks for the info! I haven't noticed the compression; maybe they're not doing it yet in my area.
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet??? |
|
quatrix
join:2005-02-11
Davie, FL
| reply to PaulHikeS2
said by PaulHikeS2 :Certainly better than pure stretchovision (like TNT). I prefer the format not be changed at all. If it's shot in 4:3, that's how I want to see it. No distortion, no cropping. Same here. Most TVs allow you to stretch 4:3 to 16:9 but not the other direction. People that like the stretched look can have it their way (whatever floats their boats), whereas if the show's already transmitted in stretched form, there's no way to undo it. |
|
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ | reply to PaulHikeS2
If you haven't received any new HD channels recently, it's probably not. |
|
Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA | reply to quatrix
Hmm interesting my Samsung 50" Plasma allows me to force 4:3 ratio on an incomming 16:9 signal so I actually can fix stretch-o-vision just fine that way. |
|
Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| reply to krichek
Not sure where you're comming from on this. Yeah the best you'll ever get from the *local* stations is what the broadcast OTA provides. You are correct DTV just re-broadcasts the OTA signal.
However locals are only a few channels (NBC, CBS, FOX, etc) all the rest come directly from the source provider. What this means is if you watch National Geographic HD on Comcast it will be Mpeg2 and inferior to the Mpeg4 stream on DTV.
The funny part is I would have never believed the above statement until I saw it with my own eyes. Forget the whole 720p/1080i debate, Mpeg2 vs Mpeg4 is much more noticable.
When that NFL game was on, I thought there had to be something wrong with my TV or what not, so I called up a friend with a 58" Panasonic 1080p plasma and he confirmed exactly what I was seeing: DTV Mpeg4 just blows away OTA Mpeg2 |
|
FrostyMelon
join:2006-02-06
Colorado Springs, CO | reply to PaulHikeS2
OMG...TNT HD...horrid! |
|
trparky
Bite My Shiny Metal Ass
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
clubs:
edit:
March 10th, @08:16PM
| reply to RadioDoc
I think that the CEOs of the cable companies (not just Comcast, this includes Cox and RoadRunner) ought to look at the service they provide. It would shed some light on the horrible quality of the service they provide.
But then again, we all know that that ain't going to happen.
I have DTV, great picture all around. 
--
Tom |
|
djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| reply to quatrix
quote:
People that like the stretched look can have it their way (whatever floats their boats), whereas if the show's already transmitted in stretched form, there's no way to undo it.
No, we can't. If I get a 16:9 HD source, I cannot "zoom" the encoded black bars out of the viewing area.
On my and many other TVs, I can only choose aspect options when the source is 4:3. |
|
djrobx
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME
| reply to Morac
Satellite providers have been stat-muxing for a long, long time. There's nothing inherently wrong with the practice.
That video shows a BROKEN video stream. It's probably due to a poor signal. If it's the result of this "new" compression, Comcast has configured it improperly and it needs to be fixed.
The real results of over-compression on HD channels would not be apparent in an overly-compressed Youtube video. |
|
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Read the thread I linked to. People are seeing all kind of problems with the new compression technique. It may indeed be configured improperly, but that is not an excuse.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. |
|
kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to Jerm
said by Jerm :I won't even go into the differences between Cable/OTA Mpeg2 HD vs DTV's Mpeg4 HD. I'll just say the latter is far superior to the point where during the first Giants/Patriots game that was triple-cast on NFL Network (DTV Mpeg4), CBS(OTA Mpeg2), and NBC (OTA Mpeg2) the Mpeg2 was just laughable (major motion artifacts that completely disappeared on Mpeg4). You seem to gloss right over the issue of HD Lite with DTV. It's really just about trade-offs in the end. Which is better? DTV's MPEG4 with 33% less resolution, or cable's MPEG2 with full HD resolution? |
|
Jerm
join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
| Huh? "HD Lite" is only on DTV's old Mpeg2 streams. The new Mpeg4 is not "lite".
Both Cable & DTV have "full" resolution 1920x1080i signals just in DTV's version it's Mpeg4.
I do agree "HD Lite" sucks, but it only exists in Mpeg2 land |
|
